Hebrews 6:1-6

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

And you know full well I already explained this to you and what I was stating there, yet you continue to cherry pick parts out of what I said and make a whole false context out of it.

Take my explanation that I gave to show what I was actually saying instead of using part. Doing this with what I said shows that you do the same with scripture. Plus you do know the bible says not to hold something over another ???

No, you lied Kenny and got caught. You are deceived and bare false witness against all who oppose your lies on the daily. Just like a son of the devil. Then in your statement here you cherry pick be nice to me according to the scriptures. While ignoring the scriptures that call you out as a liar and command us to stand against you and your kind just like Christ did. Who you trying to deceive?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Another good truth found here........they will deny it though.....you have to lose all pride to come before Jesus and accept your total helplessness before his throne....while relying totally on Jesus and his work/faith/blood for total salvation.....

Just like you have denied all of these scriptures from Paul, Peter, and Jude which are just a few that shows we have hope of receiving eternal life;

1 Thessalonians 5:8
But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.


Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.




Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:




1 Timothy 4:8
For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.




1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.




1 Timothy 6:19
Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.




2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.


Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;




Titus 3:7
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.




1 Peter 1:4-5
to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.




1 Peter 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.




1 Peter 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.




2 Peter 1:10-11
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.




Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

 

[kennethcadwell]

No, you lied Kenny and got caught. You are deceived and bare false witness against all who oppose your lies on the daily. Just like a son of the devil. Then in your statement here you cherry pick be nice to me according to the scriptures. While ignoring the scriptures that call you out as a liar and command us to stand against you and your kind just like Christ did. Who you trying to deceive?

I am not deceived nor do I bare false witness on anybody, that false witnessing is coming on me by others.

I addressed your little partial quote of mine you gave, as I wrote a lot more then just that little bit you gave. And when you tried to call me out on just that one tid bit, I answered you and addressed the issue I was speaking of. You still obviously do not like my response or you would not continue with that false premise on me.

I do not ignore scriptures, as I just do not use a few out of context like some of you do because that would make over half the rest of the NT contradict and be worthless. Apostle Paul did not give warnings to believers over and over again for no reason. Your constant using of scripture to say a person keeps eternal life no matter what they do is in complete contradiction to Paul's teachings.........

 

[SarahM777]

No doubt as well as denied verb tenses, contest, words and phrases in context like ETERNAL, EVERLASTING, WHAT GOD DOES, SEALED unto the day of redemption, saved to the uttermost etc.

That does NOT change the fact that God is seeking those who will REMAIN in Him via faith. If one loses faith they CAN NOT be declared righteous,the warnings are about LOSING,WALKING AWAY or TRASHING ones faith. No one will be saved in UNBELIEF. It's not rocket science and clearly what scripture teaches. All the promises about God bringing Him children home are ALWAYS about remaining in the FAITH. If ones does NOT remain in the faith they are in UNBELIEF.

 

[dcontroversal]

That does NOT change the fact that God is seeking those who will REMAIN in Him via faith. If one loses faith they CAN NOT be declared righteous,the warnings are about LOSING,WALKING AWAY or TRASHING ones faith. No one will be saved in UNBELIEF. It's not rocket science and clearly what scripture teaches. All the promises about God bringing Him children home are ALWAYS about remaining in the FAITH. If ones does NOT remain in the faith they are in UNBELIEF.

Reject the following words Of God to your own demise.....blindly at that I must say!

2nd Timothy 2:13 If we believe not , yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny HIMSELF

 

[kennethcadwell]

That does NOT change the fact that God is seeking those who will REMAIN in Him via faith. If one loses faith they CAN NOT be declared righteous,the warnings are about LOSING,WALKING AWAY or TRASHING ones faith. No one will be saved in UNBELIEF. It's not rocket science and clearly what scripture teaches. All the promises about God bringing Him children home are ALWAYS about remaining in the FAITH. If ones does NOT remain in the faith they are in UNBELIEF.

Here is the thing as the bible says that we are to come to Him as little children, and seek out through Him for His knowledge and He will give it to us by the Holy Spirit. I think some have fallen into the snare of getting too over educated in man made systems for their own good that it has blinded them to His truth. The bible clearly warns using man made teaching systems to learn His word over going directly to Him for that knowledge.
And yes there are multiple scriptures, and Apostle Paul gives most of them that says and shows we have to remain in, continue in, stand firm in, and contend for the faith to receive eternal life.

 

[SarahM777]

You missed the whole jist of the parable.

the son left.

He hit rock bottom because he missed his fathers things why? because he has nothing in himself. when you have all God gives you, and that is gone, you KNOW WHAT IT MEANS TO BE POOR AND HOPLELESS

This caused him to return.

a son will ALWAYS return, because when they leave the father, HE SUFFERS SEVER LOSS. greater than if he had never been a son before.

I don't know. maybe you do not have God and do not realize what great riches we have in christ, thus would not miss it if you left? thats the ONLY way I can come to a conclusion why you or anyone would thank a person would lose faith, or want to go back to the world. they have not experienced what God gives ALL who he adopts. for in my mind, there is no other reason anyone would belief such things

I left God for 5 years. i hit that rock bottom. I KNOW WHAT IT IS LIKE TO BE A PRODIGAL.

So Jesus goes around the countryside speaking the words of eternal life and you believe that this parable is reduced down to Jesus talking about the son losing his blessings and fellowship and not the fact that Jesus main point was that the son did not have life? So Jesus is concerned about whether people keep their blessings and fellowship and not eternal life? Is that what you really believe about this parable? So Jesus in reality is talking about the stuff?

 

[dcontroversal]

Here is the thing as the bible says that we are to come to Him as little children, and seek out through Him for His knowledge and He will give it to us by the Holy Spirit. I think some have fallen into the snare of getting too over educated in man made systems for their own good that it has blinded them to His truth. The bible clearly warns using man made teaching systems to learn His word over going directly to Him for that knowledge.
And yes there are multiple scriptures, and Apostle Paul gives most of them that says and shows we have to remain in, continue in, stand firm in, and contend for the faith to receive eternal life.

And that is exactly why you wont receive it because you teach and promote a self reliance and works based salvation that is dependent upon your own abilities....oblivious to the fact that the bible teaches by the GREEK a current possession of eternal life, justified, sanctified and SEALED by the Holy Spirit of promise.......

Your key words are WE HAVE TO.......works as opposed to faith......even though you blindly deny it.....!

 

[dcontroversal]

So Jesus goes around the countryside speaking the words of eternal life and you believe that this parable is reduced down to Jesus talking about the son losing his blessings and fellowship and not the fact that Jesus main point was that the son did not have life? So Jesus is concerned about whether people keep their blessings and fellowship and not eternal life? Is that what you really believe about this parable? So Jesus in reality is talking about the stuff?

He could explain it 75 ways from Sunday and you would still reject it and argue your own works and abilities.....so what is the point

 

[SarahM777]

Reject the following words Of God to your own demise.....blindly at that I must say!

2nd Timothy 2:13 If we believe not , yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny HIMSELF

YOU HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING what that passage really means. That passage is very clear HE WILL NOT DENY HIMSELF.
His word is so clear that NO ONE will be saved in unbelief and HE WILL NOT CHANGE IT. He can not and will not deny that.
There is NO WHERE that ever says anyone in UNBELIEF WILL EVER BE SAVED IN THAT UNBELIEF.

 

[notuptome]

That does NOT change the fact that God is seeking those who will REMAIN in Him via faith. If one loses faith they CAN NOT be declared righteous,the warnings are about LOSING,WALKING AWAY or TRASHING ones faith. No one will be saved in UNBELIEF. It's not rocket science and clearly what scripture teaches. All the promises about God bringing Him children home are ALWAYS about remaining in the FAITH. If ones does NOT remain in the faith they are in UNBELIEF.

Until and unless one makes the discernment between salvation and sanctification this confusion will persist. A person who has been born again can never perish. A wayward child can always be restored. Only those who never received Christ will fall away and be lost.

It as you say is not rocket science to understand that the butterfly cannot go back to being a caterpillar.

The fields are indeed white unto harvest but the laborers are few.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SarahM777]

Here is the thing as the bible says that we are to come to Him as little children, and seek out through Him for His knowledge and He will give it to us by the Holy Spirit. I think some have fallen into the snare of getting too over educated in man made systems for their own good that it has blinded them to His truth. The bible clearly warns using man made teaching systems to learn His word over going directly to Him for that knowledge.
And yes there are multiple scriptures, and Apostle Paul gives most of them that says and shows we have to remain in, continue in, stand firm in, and contend for the faith to receive eternal life.

Never mind all the passages Jesus gave and all the passages God gave us the old testament.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Reject the following words Of God to your own demise.....blindly at that I must say!

2nd Timothy 2:13 If we believe not , yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny HIMSELF

Nobody is rejecting that scripture, but it must be taken in proper context with what all is being said here.
It is not saying if a person falls back to unbelief they will still remain saved. The context is that the Lord will never deny His own teachings of salvation therefore if you come back to Him in repentance you will be accepted again. For if we continue reading in this passage it says we must present ourselves approved to God, by abstaining from iniquity or a sinful nature.
For it says the Lord knows who are His and those are the ones who depart from such sinful behavior.


Apostle Paul then ends this chapter showing that those who do not depart form iniquity and constantly start quarrels with others instead of being gentle with them in debates are in opposition to God. He then says they need to repent of this treatment of others because they are caught in the devils snare and his lies.......

 

[SarahM777]

Until and unless one makes the discernment between salvation and sanctification this confusion will persist. A person who has been born again can never perish. A wayward child can always be restored. Only those who never received Christ will fall away and be lost.

It as you say is not rocket science to understand that the butterfly cannot go back to being a caterpillar.

The fields are indeed white unto harvest but the laborers are few.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Prove it from scripture in context and from the council of God,that a believer CAN NOT walk away,trash,or abandon his faith. Talking points mean nothing if they CAN NOT be proven from from the whole council of God. And show any where in scripture that God makes you a robot unable to do so.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

I am not deceived nor do I bare false witness on anybody, that false witnessing is coming on me by others.

I addressed your little partial quote of mine you gave, as I wrote a lot more then just that little bit you gave. And when you tried to call me out on just that one tid bit, I answered you and addressed the issue I was speaking of. You still obviously do not like my response or you would not continue with that false premise on me.

I do not ignore scriptures, as I just do not use a few out of context like some of you do because that would make over half the rest of the NT contradict and be worthless. Apostle Paul did not give warnings to believers over and over again for no reason. Your constant using of scripture to say a person keeps eternal life no matter what they do is in complete contradiction to Paul's teachings.........

Kenny we have caught you lying in here several times don't pretend that didn't happen. Why we ignore the rest of your statements is because you lie usually in the first few words then twist into something else and hope we will take the bait. Your error and poor biblical comprehension is apparent to all here with eyes and ears.

Hebrew 7:25
Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

No gray area Kenny our Salvation is secure and context of the whole NT is what we speak of. Btw, this is the same thing i pointed out to newbirth before he got banned. Pay close attention because your banning from CC is coming soon and your condemnation isn't sleeping. Repent!

 

[Yonah]

Like the other letters this too must be taken in its context, not only must we read before and after these verse to establish proper context but we must also consider the historical context as well, Paul was addressing those who being told they must still sacrifice at the temple for forgiveness if sin, THIS is what this is addressing... we must be sure to remember these are letters to specific assemblies addressing specific problems, and as it is good to apply some of the principles illustrated in these letters we must not forget they are someone elses mail and cannot nor should not be applied to every believer everywhere as todays culture and mode of worship is much different then that of the 1st century church. this hoiwever is not to invalidate the NT letters in anyway, they were in fact inspired by the Father in heaven and should always be taken as such, that said it is common to forget that the scriptures referred to in these letters was always the OT as the NT didn't even exist yet....

 

[dcontroversal]

YOU HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING what that passage really means. That passage is very clear HE WILL NOT DENY HIMSELF.
His word is so clear that NO ONE will be saved in unbelief and HE WILL NOT CHANGE IT. He can not and will not deny that.
There is NO WHERE that ever says anyone in UNBELIEF WILL EVER BE SAVED IN THAT UNBELIEF.

Well, your inability to see who is writing and who it is written to states all that needs to be stated concerning your lack of understanding.....

KEY word--->WE<----applied unto those who exercise true faith into Christ and then for some reason fall away from their belief......

IF WE believe NOT, yet HE abides faithful, HE cannot DENY HIMSELF..........

NOW read it slowly, pay attention to who is writing, who he is writing to and the word WE........and then go look up and understand what it means to have your life HID WITHIN CHRIST.....and open your eyes before it is to late......!

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I'm not sure perfection is that we finally love perfectly. I have always thought perfection was surrendering and allowing the Holy Spirit to conform us to the image of Christ. That we are no longer living our life for ourselves, but only unto Him and as a result of this would be allowing Him to be fully expressed through us.

I agree that none of us can ever love perfectly. That's not what the bible nor I were saying. To say we each have to love perfectly is to make it a work of the flesh. Like trying to obey the works of the law but not being able to because of our human frailties and weakness'. It reminds me of the verse in 1st John:

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

When I was a new Christian I used to look at that verse, and think, man, i'm never going to attain to that level of perfect love, being able to love others perfectly and always do everything in love without making a mistake. After all, that's what most peoples definition of perfection is, never making a mistake, doing things perfectly, etc. But then the Lord showed me that's not exactly what it means. God is love, and He is the perfect one who never makes a mistake. We do make mistakes and are imperfect and that's why we need Jesus. Jesus makes us perfect by forgiving us for all our sins and reconciling us to God by His blood sacrifice for us. So the "perfect love" in the aforementioned verse is actually God's perfect love and care for us His children. We have perfect love when we have faith in God's perfect love and care for us. That's why it casts out all fear, because if you know God is taking care of you then you know everything's going to turn out OK no matter what happens.

nice post and well deserved rep points brother delivery.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Each of these passages represent the extreme case. These passages are not talking about the Christian who sins, even at length and the repents. These passages are talking about the Christian who abandons the faith altogether and turns their back on God. For these there remains no more sacrifice. The sacrifice of Christ has now been rejected by them and means no more to them that the hog slaughtered on the altar. For these there awaits only the judgment of God.

Heb 10 is talking about a person who claims to be saved, yet continues in sin, Nothing in that passage says that person was saved, walked for a time, then fell back into sin and lost his salvation.

Not only would that be going against everything Hebrews is about (as it would place us under law not grace) but it would cause God to contradict himself.

EG, you knowfull well this is not what these texts are saying.

Oh I do?

So when paul says he himself will still be saved, even though as through fire.
And when he says that he will be NEAR to being cursed, it means he is really cursed?

Sorry, we must read different bibles.

Can you not see the difference between the third party group of "those who" in verses four through six and the second person group of the "you beloved" in verse nine? These are two separate groups of Christians demonstrating two different types of behavior and suffer two different fates.

yeah I can.

The "those who" are the ones who never had faith, Who never believed, Who never had hope. They may have dabbled with the truth for awhile but there true faith was in the law. Not in Christ As Peter says, they like a dog returned to their own vomit. As John said, they were never of us, for if they were truly of us, they never would have left, (a person who is trying to get saved by law is an antiChrist, because they are against Christ)

You are arguing we cannot loose our salvation. These text tell us we can but the choice is ours. God will nor force our obedience but he will punish the disobedient servant. God does not force choices on us but clearly the choices we make have eternal consequences.

No, I am arguing that eternal life is eternal life. the eternal seal of the spirit is eternal. The Adoption as sons, and everything Paul said we who have faith will recieve in eph 1 and 2 are a reality, not a maybe you will maybe you wont. That if we can lose salvation, we are under law not under grace, That those who teach we can lose salvation do not understand the law. because the same law that would condemn those who they claim lost salvation would condemn the very people who claim it can be lost where they stand.

Chapters 3 and 4 are offered as an example to us. This is why he concludes in chapter four by saying, "Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account."

Eg, I really think this has gone far enough. If this does not convince you I cannot think of anything that will.

I agree with you, You wont convince me, Because the scripture does not support your view. Your placing your eternity in your hands, your trusting yourself.

As for heb 3 and 4. You took everything which was said, and ignored it. and made a doctrine based on one verse Which does not go with context of everything said.

Not everyone who goes to your church, Gives money to your church. Prays in your church, Does all the things you think a good little christian can do, etc etc is saved. Nor was everyone any author in the bible wrote to. Many may THIN they are saved, yet are not, because they have YET to come to true faith. These are the people paul warned, James warned, Peter warned, Make sure your faith is real. and not dead.

A dead faith can not save you. period. It can act like a christian, walk like a christian, If it is around true christians, be blessed by association with those christians, But he is still a dead christion, He has not been sealed by the spirit, Not been given eternal life. Not been given the rest Paul said those wh have real faith get in heb 3 and 4.

These people will eventually wal away, why? there is NO POWER in their salvation, it is DEAD!