-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Where in Dan 4:35 does it say God must over-ride man's will in order for God to accomplish his own will?
How could Jonah disobey in fleeing to Tarshish if he had no free will? Jonah used his freewill to disobey God by fleeing to Tarshish and God punished him for his disobedience. Then "the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying, Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee." Jonah 3:1,2 What did Jonah did this second time? He of his own freewill " arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD." Jonah 3:3 without God over-riding his freewill.
Eze 33:11 "Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?"
It's not God's nature to force men to be lost, but God desires the wicked to be saved.
Rom 9:22 "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:"
2 Pet 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but islongsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
The purpose of God's longsuffering is so that all men should come to repentance.
2 Pet 3:15 "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;"
The purpose of god's longsuffering is salvation.
If Rom 9:22 means before the world began God has already predetermined those Jews to be lost/vessels of wrath, then why would God be longsuffering with those vessels of wrath that they should come to repentance, be saved when God has already predetermined they be lost?
It's not God's nature to force men to be lost, but God desires the wicked to be saved.
Rom 9:22 "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:"
2 Pet 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but islongsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
The purpose of God's longsuffering is so that all men should come to repentance.
2 Pet 3:15 "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;"
The purpose of god's longsuffering is salvation.
If Rom 9:22 means before the world began God has already predetermined those Jews to be lost/vessels of wrath, then why would God be longsuffering with those vessels of wrath that they should come to repentance, be saved when God has already predetermined they be lost?
First and foremost.....if you are going to add to what I said and then question it don't respond to anything I post because I am sick of you doing this........the bolded above has been added to what I said!
Second....God has dealt to EVERY MAN A MEASURE OF FAITH<---the ability to believe and acknowledge Jesus in saving faith...go argue with the verse and God which you seem to do regularly!
Third...God blessed ESAU and his heritage...GOD hates NO man and sent his SON to DIE for ALL men and numerous people have shown you this by the use of KOSMOS which you still reject even though it has been proven to you numerous times.....
Fourth...Go back to point one and re-read!
Second....God has dealt to EVERY MAN A MEASURE OF FAITH<---the ability to believe and acknowledge Jesus in saving faith...go argue with the verse and God which you seem to do regularly!
Third...God blessed ESAU and his heritage...GOD hates NO man and sent his SON to DIE for ALL men and numerous people have shown you this by the use of KOSMOS which you still reject even though it has been proven to you numerous times.....
Fourth...Go back to point one and re-read!
God can both allow absolute free will, and at the same time override it (if we want Him to). He knows our hearts better than we do...so...He gives us the desires of our heart.
Galatians 6:6-8Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
6*Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things. 7*Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8*For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
When we choose to plant according to the spirit...God can override our weakness to enable us, to be capable by His will which we approve of but may not understand completely...to be more fruitful by our free will and His ability to override it.
Galatians 6:6-8Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
6*Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things. 7*Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8*For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
When we choose to plant according to the spirit...God can override our weakness to enable us, to be capable by His will which we approve of but may not understand completely...to be more fruitful by our free will and His ability to override it.
D
I think everyone has a time when they feel Condemnation and wonder if God loves them, or think that God must hate them. That's the devil of course.
But predestination is a subject that a lot of Christians don't like for some reason or another. I don't know if they dislike the thought that God already chooses some before the foundation of the world, or if they feel like they're not chosen.
I think it's wonderful when you believe it and God starts to show you how much you mean. It makes you feel very special and like you have a purpose; that this life is worth something and that you were created for a divine purpose. I don't know what could be better than that!
Some interesting points to consider: there are people who are saved just by doing good things for/to God's elect. And there are people who are condemned for what they do/do not do for the elect.
Matthew 25
31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
As for the last question, God could never condemn people who are a part of Him. He didn't kill Eve on the spot because she was a part of Adam. He didn't kill Sarah on the spot because she was a part of Abraham. If you are predestinated, you are a part of Him before the world was formed, and you are "reunited" at some point in your life on earth. That's when the Holy Spirit - which IS God - comes into you, and you are reunited. God cannot condemn a part of Himself, and as His Bride, and His elect, you are a chosen vessel to bring Him honour. There is nothing that can separate you if you came from God, you are going back to God. And He will lead you and woo you and call you and stay with you all your life until He calls you home.
There is nothing more beautiful, so don't be scared about the word predestination. It's a wonderful thing to those that believe.
But predestination is a subject that a lot of Christians don't like for some reason or another. I don't know if they dislike the thought that God already chooses some before the foundation of the world, or if they feel like they're not chosen.
I think it's wonderful when you believe it and God starts to show you how much you mean. It makes you feel very special and like you have a purpose; that this life is worth something and that you were created for a divine purpose. I don't know what could be better than that!
Some interesting points to consider: there are people who are saved just by doing good things for/to God's elect. And there are people who are condemned for what they do/do not do for the elect.
Matthew 25
31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
As for the last question, God could never condemn people who are a part of Him. He didn't kill Eve on the spot because she was a part of Adam. He didn't kill Sarah on the spot because she was a part of Abraham. If you are predestinated, you are a part of Him before the world was formed, and you are "reunited" at some point in your life on earth. That's when the Holy Spirit - which IS God - comes into you, and you are reunited. God cannot condemn a part of Himself, and as His Bride, and His elect, you are a chosen vessel to bring Him honour. There is nothing that can separate you if you came from God, you are going back to God. And He will lead you and woo you and call you and stay with you all your life until He calls you home.
There is nothing more beautiful, so don't be scared about the word predestination. It's a wonderful thing to those that believe.
