Version Difference Question

[eternally-gratefull]

Anybody with one ounce of discernment knows the NIV is a perversion. The real purpose of the thread was to find out why one translation says exactly the opposite of another translation.... only most people that have responded can't even see that there is a difference between the two.

there is.

The KJV got it wrong.(either in interpretation, wording or because it is outdated) The NIV got it right.

Thats why we do not hold on version above another

 

[KJV1611]

the word captivity in the hebrew.

(17 ×), שְׁבִית (2 ×): sf. שְׁביּתֵךְ, שְׁבוּתָם: carrying off to captivity, imprisonment; w. vb. hēšîb Je 32:44 or šāb (ϝ √ II šwb) Dt 30:3 lift the sentence of imprisonment, turn one’s fortune (to the good); but oth. believe the basic mng. of phrase is ‘bring about a restoration’.

Holladay, W. L., & Köhler, L. (2000). A concise Hebrew and Aramaic lexicon of the Old Testament (p. 358). Leiden: Brill.

ie, he will bring about a restoration, Turns their fortune from bad (captive) to Good (peace in their land, to rebuild the cities, drink its wine) Or Lift the sentance of imprisonment (they were sentence to the prison of captivity due to their sin)

All one has to do is look at the rest of the verse to get the actual interpretation.

They will rebuild their cities (destroyed in the captivity)
They will plant vinyard and drink the wine
They will plant gardens and eat the food.

Captives do not do this, this is the opposite of captivity. this is what one does when they are freed from their sentence of imprisonment

So iether it is an old english problem as many have said. or is it a misinterpretation, or it is worded very poorly.

Captivity does not mean "bring about restoration". To turn captivity means "bring about restoration".

 

[KJV1611]

there is.

The KJV got it wrong.(either in interpretation, wording or because it is outdated) The NIV got it right.

Thats why we do not hold on version above another

No the KJV didn't get it wrong, you guys change the meaning of words to make it fit your beliefs. All of Amos 9 is about the first coming of Christ and Israel being banished from the land permanently. This is not some future event where Israel comes back into the land that God never gave them in the first place... The promises were made to Abraham and his SEED Christ... not national Israel.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Captivity does not mean "bring about restoration". To turn captivity means "bring about restoration".

I just gave you the interpretation of the word in question. I looked up the word translated captivity and that is what I got.

the king james says bring again the captivity

The NASB says restore the captivity (with a marker, which says captivity can also be translated fortune)

The NKJV says bring back the captives

Non of the versions I looked at said turn captivity

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No the KJV didn't get it wrong, you guys change the meaning of words to make it fit your beliefs. All of Amos 9 is about the first coming of Christ and Israel being banished from the land permanently. This is not some future event where Israel comes back into the land that God never gave them in the first place... The promises were made to Abraham and his SEED Christ... not national Israel.

lol

No, This is your perversion of using a poorly translated bible to support your heretical belief.

A captive does not rebuild his cities
A captive does not drink wine from its land
A captive does not plant gardens in its land.

It is also proper interpretation of the hebrew, Which I just proved to you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

to add. You too one verse, that is a problem.

let look at the verse in context:


Amos 9: 14 - 15
I will bring back the captives of My people Israel;
They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them;
They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]I will plant them in their land,
And no longer shall they be pulled up
From the land I have given them,”
Says the Lord your God.

this can't be the first advent, in 70AD they were exiled for the first time completely. this says they will NEVER be pulled from the land again

 

[KJV1611]

to add. You too one verse, that is a problem.

let look at the verse in context:


Amos 9: 14 - 15
I will bring back the captives of My people Israel;
They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them;
They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]I will plant them in their land,
And no longer shall they be pulled up
From the land I have given them,”
Says the Lord your God.

this can't be the first advent, in 70AD they were exiled for the first time completely. this says they will NEVER be pulled from the land again

Their land is not Israel and that's exactly what Amos is telling us. Their land is the captivity, their land is the waste cities. All this starts with the tabernacle of David being restored. The body of Christ is the rebuilt tabernacle of David. The tabernacle was raised up when Christ rose from the dead.

 

[KJV1611]

lol

No, This is your perversion of using a poorly translated bible to support your heretical belief.

A captive does not rebuild his cities
A captive does not drink wine from its land
A captive does not plant gardens in its land.

It is also proper interpretation of the hebrew, Which I just proved to you.

Prove the Hebrew to me again, I didn't get your proof in the previous post. Show me the Hebrew definition of captivity.... not turn captivity.

 

[Agricola]

Anybody with one ounce of discernment knows the NIV is a perversion. The real purpose of the thread was to find out why one translation says exactly the opposite of another translation.... only most people that have responded can't even see that there is a difference between the two.

Ah there we go again, those who are "in the club", IE those who are only in the King James Club have true discernment and Holy Spirit to show that. I lost count the number of times I have been told that if the HOly Spirit has not yet shown the Bible Issue to me, then I am still a baby imature Christian not worthy of being shown such things. This is how a cult works.

NIV is not a perversion and the King James 1611 is just a standard translation job, which is what every nation had done across Europe during the 15th Century since the printing press was invented.

The whole point of the original post was a thinly disguised attempt to try and attack the NIV and promote King James Onlyism.

 

[just-me]

No offence just-me but the text doesn't say "God will plant them in righteousness". It just says God will permanently plant them. The only reason I can think of that would make you add "righteousness" is because you reject the meaning of the word "captivity" which ironically, you base the meaning of "captivity" on the fact that God permanently planted them. That is circular reason.

Circular Reasoning:
Captivity means bring back from exile because God permanently planted Israel.
God permanently planted Israel because captivity really means bring back from exile.

I was indicating that God's way is righteousness, not that I was quoting scripture as it is written. Anything He does is righteous. Just clarifying. Assumptions are not righteous. It's not circular reasoning. If our iniquity leads to captivity, God's righteous will for us is to be free. That doesn't make His judgments that lead to captivity unrighteous.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Their land is not Israel and that's exactly what Amos is telling us. Their land is the captivity, their land is the waste cities. All this starts with the tabernacle of David being restored. The body of Christ is the rebuilt tabernacle of David. The tabernacle was raised up when Christ rose from the dead.

I am not getting into a replacement theology argument, You made a thread about a translation error. Lets keep it there.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Prove the Hebrew to me again, I didn't get your proof in the previous post. Show me the Hebrew definition of captivity.... not turn captivity.

(17 ×), שְׁבִית (2 ×): sf. שְׁביּתֵךְ, שְׁבוּתָם: carrying off to captivity, imprisonment; w. vb. hēšîb Je 32:44 or šāb (ϝ √ II šwb) Dt 30:3 lift the sentence of imprisonment, turn one’s fortune (to the good); but oth. believe the basic mng. of phrase is ‘bring about a restoration’.

Holladay, W. L., & Köhler, L. (2000). A concise Hebrew and Aramaic lexicon of the Old Testament (p. 358). Leiden: Brill.

 

[KJV1611]

I was indicating that God's way is righteousness, not that I was quoting scripture as it is written. Anything He does is righteous. Just clarifying. Assumptions are not righteous. It's not circular reasoning. If our iniquity leads to captivity, God's righteous will for us is to be free. That doesn't make His judgments that lead to captivity unrighteous.

Agreed, all God's judgments are righteous. So in verse 14 does God bring about the captivity of Israel of their freedom from it.

 

[MarcR]

OT:7725

OT:7725 שׁוּב verb turn back, return
(from Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon, Unabridged, Electronic Database. Copyright © 2002, 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)


To turn something back something is to reverse it not to bring it again

 

[KJV1611]

I am not getting into a replacement theology argument, You made a thread about a translation error. Lets keep it there.

You're right this is not about replacement theology. This is about bringing about the captivity of Israel. The captivity is brought again when the tabernacle of David is raised up. The tabernacle of David was raised up when Christ rose from the dead... a few years later in AD 70, the captivity of Israel came about again.

 

[KJV1611]

OT:7725

OT:7725 שׁוּב verb turn back, return
(from Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon, Unabridged, Electronic Database. Copyright © 2002, 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)


To turn something back something is to reverse it not to bring it again

Your definition says the verb can mean either turn back or return.
So which did God do, did he turn back the captivity or did he return the captivity?

 

[just-me]

Agreed, all God's judgments are righteous. So in verse 14 does God bring about the captivity of Israel of their freedom from it.

OT:7725
OT:7725 שׁוּב verb turn back, return
(from Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon, Unabridged, Electronic Database. Copyright © 2002, 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)
To turn something back something is to reverse it not to bring it again

Your answer from me is what MarcR said KJV1611. I read the KJV more than any other translation. I wish that which is simple would stay simple. Knowing God's divine plan for Gentiles and Jews alike would solve many disagreements and questions.

"Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand." This is related to the said scripture in Amos. Ezekiel chapter 37

 

[KJV1611]

So you guys expect us as Christians to understand the word of God by sifting through garbage like this? You can make shoob mean anything you want it to mean... and if this dictionary definition is not what you're looking for, you can always find another dictionary that defines it the way you want it. What ever your preconceived ideas are determines what shoob means. If you want it to mean take away the captivity... guess what you can pull that out the definition, if you want it to mean return the captivity... then pull that out of it. You can rewrite the bible any way you please.... it's not God's word any more, it's your word.

shûb
shoob
A primitive root; to turn back (hence, away) transitively or intransitively, literally or figuratively (not necessarily with the idea of return to the starting point); generally to retreat; often adverbially again: - ([break, build, circumcise, dig, do anything, do evil, feed, lay down, lie down, lodge, make, rejoice, send, take, weep]) X again, (cause to) answer (+ again), X in any case (wise), X at all, averse, bring (again, back, home again), call [to mind], carry again (back), cease, X certainly, come again (back) X consider, + continually, convert, deliver (again), + deny, draw back, fetch home again, X fro, get [oneself] (back) again, X give (again), go again (back, home), [go] out, hinder, let, [see] more, X needs, be past, X pay, pervert, pull in again, put (again, up again), recall, recompense, recover, refresh, relieve, render (again), X repent, requite, rescue, restore, retrieve, (cause to, make to) return, reverse, reward, + say nay, send back, set again, slide back, still, X surely, take back (off), (cause to, make to) turn (again, self again, away, back, back again, backward, from, off), withdraw.

 

[just-me]

So you guys expect us as Christians to understand the word of God by sifting through garbage like this? You can make shoob mean anything you want it to mean... and if this dictionary definition is not what you're looking for, you can always find another dictionary that defines it the way you want it. What ever your preconceived ideas are determines what shoob means. If you want it to mean take away the captivity... guess what you can pull that out the definition, if you want it to mean return the captivity... then pull that out of it. You can rewrite the bible any way you please.... it's not God's word any more, it's your word.

shûb
shoob
A primitive root; to turn back (hence, away) transitively or intransitively, literally or figuratively (not necessarily with the idea of return to the starting point); generally to retreat; often adverbially again: - ([break, build, circumcise, dig, do anything, do evil, feed, lay down, lie down, lodge, make, rejoice, send, take, weep]) X again, (cause to) answer (+ again), X in any case (wise), X at all, averse, bring (again, back, home again), call [to mind], carry again (back), cease, X certainly, come again (back) X consider, + continually, convert, deliver (again), + deny, draw back, fetch home again, X fro, get [oneself] (back) again, X give (again), go again (back, home), [go] out, hinder, let, [see] more, X needs, be past, X pay, pervert, pull in again, put (again, up again), recall, recompense, recover, refresh, relieve, render (again), X repent, requite, rescue, restore, retrieve, (cause to, make to) return, reverse, reward, + say nay, send back, set again, slide back, still, X surely, take back (off), (cause to, make to) turn (again, self again, away, back, back again, backward, from, off), withdraw.

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Ashamed means disappointed. Translation differences can be confusing until we study and put all things into context. If there seems to be a contradiction in scripture, it is obvious that we have it incorrect. We need to keep studying until it makes sense. We show ourselves approved when we understand. We are not seeking approval from God by our own prowess or capability.

 

[KJV1611]

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Ashamed means disappointed. Translation differences can be confusing until we study and put all things into context. If there seems to be a contradiction in scripture, it is obvious that we have it incorrect. We need to keep studying until it makes sense. We show ourselves approved when we understand. We are not seeking approval from God by our own prowess or capability.

Where do we find the word of truth?