The Correct Path

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J

Jeff_56

Banned
#61
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
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#61
you both are right - if he believes in tulip, since it has never been right nor true, and was proven wrong again yesterday from scripture, as always.

notice the more hidden danger also - - there are some older men , maybe some women but i haven't noticed them, who believe catholicism is in some way okay and not a complete and utter abomination and heresy.

those who still hold to anything the rcc heresy says, or anyone who trusts it in any way,

cannot be trusted to speak the truth about anything -- everything must be tested,
and if it (any teaching or practice or demon) comes from the rcc
it is discarded at once,
immediately,
without hesitation,
as from hasatan.
 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#62
Mar 12, 2014
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#62
Jeff_56 said:
i didn't read anything following this post yet - just happened across it like 2 pieces of driftwood passing in the sea :) ....

it is TRUTH that no one has FAITH unless YAHWEH grants it from heaven. and it is TRUTH that YAHWEH has mercy on whom HE CHOOSES TO HAVE MERCY, and that YAHWEH hardens whom HE chooses to harden.

it is TRUTH that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the WORD OF GOD,
and
it is TRUTH that THERE IS A FAMINE OF THE HEARING OF THE WORD OF GOD TODAY. )and has been for a long time, and will be until yahshua returns.
Click to expand...

This is Calvinism which puts fault, blame moral culpability upon God for the lost.
 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#64
Mar 12, 2014
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#64
dcontroversal said:
What you fail to understand is that both statements are right......

1. Faith is a gift from God, it is spiritual and given to every man by measure (except Jesus)....the end result is simple God is the source of EVERYTHING.....

2. DAY unto DAY uttereth speech, night unto night sets forth KNOWLEDGE....THE INVISIBLE things of GOD testifies of God's power and the GODHEAD........

3. WITHOUT a doubt the bible ALSO states that faith cometh by hearing dia the WORD (hearing with the implication of understanding)<----NATURAL MAN cannot KNOW, NOR DISCERN the word of GOD because it is FOOLISHNESS UNTO HIM.....

So what does all that say....A man that has not been born again CANNOT SPIRITUALLY UNDERSTAND THE WORD as it takes a spiritual birth to understand the word.....man cannot have a spiritual birth and understand the word without FAITH which is a spiritual GIFT.....GOD has dealt to every man the ABILITY TO BELIEVE (a divine spark) of belief and testifies by creation......if man exercises FAITH into the message of salvation (the ability to believe which is from God) they will be BORN AGAIN and from that moment on have the ability to spiritually discern and exercise FAITH into ANY message and or word that comes from GOD......rather simple at the end of the day......!
Click to expand...

Faith is a gift only in the sense God has allowed man to have faith to be saved, but faith is not something God gives to some and withholds from others. Man has faith when he hears the word of God and develops faith within his heart, Rom 10:9...."and shalt believe in thine heart". God has allowed man to have faith but God does not determine who will or will not have faith.


You post "A man that has not been born again CANNOT SPIRITUALLY UNDERSTAND THE WORD..."

Born again IS being saved. One cannot be born again while NOT understanding the word of God.



 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#65
Mar 12, 2014
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#65
dcontroversal said:
A man that has not been born again CANNOT SPIRITUALLY UNDERSTAND THE WORD as it takes a spiritual birth to understand the word....
Click to expand...
Jn 3, Nicodemus was not born again yet Jesus said to him "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?"

Even though Nicodemus was not born again Jesus said Himself Nicodemus should have understood those words/things Christ was talking about. So being born again or not has no bearing on one's ability to know the words of God.
 
J

Jeff_56

Banned
#66
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
19
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#66
calvin was, as var as i know, a liar and a murderer and didn't repent of his sins.

so either you don't know what calvinism is, or what i said, or either.
SeaBass said:
This is Calvinism which puts fault, blame moral culpability upon God for the lost.
Click to expand...
 
J

Jeff_56

Banned
#67
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
19
0
#67
SeaBass said:
Jn 3, Nicodemus was not born again yet Jesus said to him "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?"

Even though Nicodemus was not born again Jesus said Himself Nicodemus should have understood those words/things Christ was talking about. So being born again or not has no bearing on one's ability to know the words of God.
Click to expand...
perhaps, but peter/cephas was in a much better position(so to speak) than nicodemus,
and
you might say shaul was also, (later paul),

but neither of them was helped by their studies or knowledge or wisdom or understanding of TORAH,

until, as yahshua hamashiach said "flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my father who is in heaven".
 
J

Jeff_56

Banned
#68
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
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#68
per other.

yahweh does as he pleases. this includes giving faith to whom he choses, and hardening the heart of those whom he choses.

by itself, this might look awkward to some, but yahweh is sovereign, and does as he pleases.

with the rest of his word, if he permits, he may disclose what he wishes to disclose; he's not under any obligation to
men or the world except as HE HONORS HIS WORD EVEN ABOVE HIS OWN NAME.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#69
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,400
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#69
SeaBass said:
Jn 3, Nicodemus was not born again yet Jesus said to him "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?"

Even though Nicodemus was not born again Jesus said Himself Nicodemus should have understood those words/things Christ was talking about. So being born again or not has no bearing on one's ability to know the words of God.
Click to expand...
Could he understand or NO? Was he saved NO......your logic is flawed!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#70
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#70
SeaBass said:
Faith is a gift only in the sense God has allowed man to have faith to be saved, but faith is not something God gives to some and withholds from others. Man has faith when he hears the word of God and develops faith within his heart, Rom 10:9...."and shalt believe in thine heart". God has allowed man to have faith but God does not determine who will or will not have faith.


You post "A man that has not been born again CANNOT SPIRITUALLY UNDERSTAND THE WORD..."

Born again IS being saved. One cannot be born again while NOT understanding the word of God.
Click to expand...
Again your logic if flawed......One cannot understand unless God gives them understanding....the only way to understand is to be born again...God gave every man the ability to believe when prompted, convicted and enlightened by the Spirit of God....Can a child in the womb understand anything? NO...but after BIRTH they can begging to learn, understand and apply the things they learn no matter how simple, minute and or limited their understanding may be........!
 
Bowhunter2394

Bowhunter2394

Banned
#71
Apr 9, 2015
995
10
0
#71
SeaBass said:
Jn 3, Nicodemus was not born again yet Jesus said to him "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?"

Even though Nicodemus was not born again Jesus said Himself Nicodemus should have understood those words/things Christ was talking about. So being born again or not has no bearing on one's ability to know the words of God.
Click to expand...

Carnal man takes and reads God's Word and uses it according to his flesh, the wisdom of man, carnal man CANNOT understand the Things of the Spirit.. carnal 'man' takes and says... one DOES NOT HAVE TO BE born again to 'understand the things of God'.. thats a Carnal Man... one must be Regenerated from on High to Understand the Things of the Spirit and Rightly Divide the Word of Truth.. 'carnal' man says yes we can.. and in his/her carnality he/she will pervert and twist the Word of God to fit his/her 'theology'.. that is RAMPANT today.. Indeed.. but not surprised because of the speed and allowable power for the devil to sow his/her seeds.. tares weeds.. lots of those today.. wow..
 
GracethroughfaithinChrist

GracethroughfaithinChrist

Senior Member
#72
Sep 6, 2014
7,034
5,435
113
#72
SeaBass said:
Jn 3, Nicodemus was not born again yet Jesus said to him "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?"

Even though Nicodemus was not born again Jesus said Himself Nicodemus should have understood those words/things Christ was talking about. So being born again or not has no bearing on one's ability to know the words of God.
Click to expand...
You are twisting scripture again to fit your carnal mind's position sb,........

Ephesians 5:6
6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#73
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#73
Bowhunter2394 said:
Carnal man takes and reads God's Word and uses it according to his flesh, the wisdom of man, carnal man CANNOT understand the Things of the Spirit.. carnal 'man' takes and says... one DOES NOT HAVE TO BE born again to 'understand the things of God'.. thats a Carnal Man... one must be Regenerated from on High to Understand the Things of the Spirit and Rightly Divide the Word of Truth.. 'carnal' man says yes we can.. and in his/her carnality he/she will pervert and twist the Word of God to fit his/her 'theology'.. that is RAMPANT today.. Indeed.. but not surprised because of the speed and allowable power for the devil to sow his/her seeds.. tares weeds.. lots of those today.. wow..
Click to expand...
Amen to that for sure and I agree.......!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#74
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,400
113
#74
GracethroughfaithinChrist said:
You are twisting scripture again to fit your carnal mind's position sb,........

Ephesians 5:6
6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
Click to expand...

it blows my mind sometimes how blind some are to what is actually being said.....kind of like saying to a doctor that does not know how to write a prescription....your a doctor and you don't know how to do this......sarcasm at its best......You call yourself a lawyer and you don't know how to appeal......blah blah blah..........the context was clear and so was what Jesus was saying.....not to mention that I do not see Jesus saying you should have understood these things to Nicodemus ......I see Jesus questioning his right to be considered a teacher because of ignorance....
 
GracethroughfaithinChrist

GracethroughfaithinChrist

Senior Member
#75
Sep 6, 2014
7,034
5,435
113
#75
dcontroversal said:
it blows my mind sometimes how blind some are to what is actually being said.....kind of like saying to a doctor that does not know how to write a prescription....your a doctor and you don't know how to do this......sarcasm at its best......You call yourself a lawyer and you don't know how to appeal......blah blah blah..........the context was clear and so was what Jesus was saying.....not to mention that I do not see Jesus saying you should have understood these things to Nicodemus ......I see Jesus questioning his right to be considered a teacher because of ignorance....
Click to expand...
May God do for others what He has done for us big brother, and may we all learn to be of one heart,mind, and soul. If a man will not listen to those who offer correction what can we do but pray?....... And if a man will not surrender his life to Christ's blood he will bare his own shame. Come soon Lord Jesus Christ and peace,love,mercy,and joy in abundance be to you and all our other brothers and sisters always and forever in Christ Jesus.
 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#76
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#76
Jeff_56 said:
calvin was, as var as i know, a liar and a murderer and didn't repent of his sins.

so either you don't know what calvinism is, or what i said, or either.
Click to expand...
In post #49 you posted (blue):

it is TRUTH that no one has FAITH unless YAHWEH grants it from heaven. and it is TRUTH that YAHWEH has mercy on whom HE CHOOSES TO HAVE MERCY, and that YAHWEH hardens whom HE chooses to harden.

Do you mean by this statement that God alone decides which men will or will not have faith with man having no choice in it?
 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#77
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
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#77
Jeff_56 said:
perhaps, but peter/cephas was in a much better position(so to speak) than nicodemus,
and
you might say shaul was also, (later paul),

but neither of them was helped by their studies or knowledge or wisdom or understanding of TORAH,

until, as yahshua hamashiach said "flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my father who is in heaven".
Click to expand...
If one who has not been born again cannot have knowledge/understand the word of God then Jesus would have known this and would not have been speaking to Nicodemus for Jesus' words to Nicodemus would have been just gibberish going in one ear and out the other with no understanding taking place. Yet the context clear refutes the notion one must be first born again to be able to understand the words of God.

Peter and the other apostles were inspired men, men go used to reveal His mind to mankind. Eph 3:3,4 men can read those words and understand them.
 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#78
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
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#78
Jeff_56 said:
per other.

yahweh does as he pleases. this includes giving faith to whom he choses, and hardening the heart of those whom he choses.

by itself, this might look awkward to some, but yahweh is sovereign, and does as he pleases.

with the rest of his word, if he permits, he may disclose what he wishes to disclose; he's not under any obligation to
men or the world except as HE HONORS HIS WORD EVEN ABOVE HIS OWN NAME.
Click to expand...
Again, do you mean by this that God alone will determine which men will have faith and be saved (show mercy) and which men will not have faith and be lost (be hardened) with man having no choice in the matter?
 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#79
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
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#79
dcontroversal said:
Could he understand or NO? Was he saved NO......your logic is flawed!
Click to expand...
Nicodemus was not born again but should have understood what Christ was talking about as shown by Christ's own words.

If he could not understand what Christ was saying then what point was it in Christ telling him about the new birth?
 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#80
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
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#80
dcontroversal said:
Again your logic if flawed......One cannot understand unless God gives them understanding....the only way to understand is to be born again...God gave every man the ability to believe when prompted, convicted and enlightened by the Spirit of God....Can a child in the womb understand anything? NO...but after BIRTH they can begging to learn, understand and apply the things they learn no matter how simple, minute and or limited their understanding may be........!
Click to expand...

You post "One cannot understand unless God gives them understanding"

Again you are putting fault, blame moral culpability upon God for all man kind that does not understand and lost are so due to od's failure to give them understanding.

If what you say here were true, then how does God go about deciding which men He will or will not give understanding to?
 
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