The Correct Path
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I suggest you re-read slowly what Jesus said.....Jesus DID NOT SAY that he should be able to understand even though he was not born again....You seem to add words and thoughts that are not supported by the text...Jesus questioned the fact that he was a MASTER (TEACHER) and did NOT understand.......just like one would question a doctor who did not know how to give stitches.......we would expect that doctor to know how to give stitches and since NICODEMUS was a MASTER (so called) JESUS expected him to know the truth.......but because he was LOST he did not UNDERSTAND what JESUS was saying......
1 Peter 2:18-25
18Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust. 19For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly. 20For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God. 21For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps. 22He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth. 23When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly. 24He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. 25For you were straying like sheep, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.
Matthew 22:1-14
1And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, 2“The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, 3and sent his servants[SUP]a[/SUP] to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. 4Again he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.”’ 5But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, 6while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. 7The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. 9Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’ 10And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests.
11“But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. 12And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14For many are called, but few are chosen.”
18Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust. 19For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly. 20For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God. 21For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps. 22He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth. 23When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly. 24He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. 25For you were straying like sheep, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.
Matthew 22:1-14
1And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, 2“The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, 3and sent his servants[SUP]a[/SUP] to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. 4Again he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.”’ 5But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, 6while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. 7The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. 9Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’ 10And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests.
11“But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. 12And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14For many are called, but few are chosen.”
there were worldly and carnal and even enemies of yahweh who knew the WORD of yahweh in the OT,
and it is written that NO MAN can receive anything unless it is granted from the father in heaven ....
so no matter a man's condition , if yahweh choses to grant it, then it is granted, whether a physical gift, or a WORD, or a healing, or anything --- yahweh's sovereign choice.
and it is written that NO MAN can receive anything unless it is granted from the father in heaven ....
so no matter a man's condition , if yahweh choses to grant it, then it is granted, whether a physical gift, or a WORD, or a healing, or anything --- yahweh's sovereign choice.
F
I am sorry that you have difficulty in defending your belief against the doctrine of Christ. You have explained previously what 1 Cor 2:14 means, and have pointed out very plainly that the natural man in 1 Cor 2:14 will not, and indeed, can not discern spiritual things. So, how is it, that you now say that God has given the natural man a measure of spiritual faith?
Ephesians 4:4-7
4There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 7But grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.
Ecclesiastes 4:12
And though a man might prevail against one who is alone, two will withstand him—a threefold cord is not quickly broken.
4There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 7But grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.
Ecclesiastes 4:12
And though a man might prevail against one who is alone, two will withstand him—a threefold cord is not quickly broken.
Jesus was reprimanding Nicodemus for not understanding what he should have.
Calvinist John Gill says:
Jesus answered and said unto him,.... Upbraiding him with his continued and invincible ignorance, which was aggravated by his dignified character..
and knowest not these things? which were so plainly to be suggested in the sacred writings, with which he was; or ought to have been conversant: for the same things Christ had been speaking of...... "
If what you say is true, that one cannot understand the word of God unless he is first born again, then:
1) when Nicodemus came to Jesus why did Jesus say anything at all to him for Jesus would have known Nicodemus would not be able to understand?
2) what sense did it make for Jesus to talk to Nicodemus already knowing Nicodemus would not understand, but then Jesus upbraids Nicodemus for not understanding? How/why would Jesus expect Nicodemus to know anything? Why didn't Jesus say in verse 10 "thou art not born again is why thou knowest not these thing"?
3) who's fault was it Nicodemus was not born again therefore could not understand Christ's words? If you try and blame Nicodemus, how can it be his fault when being born again was completely out of his control and knowledge? If what you say is true, then God was at fault for failing to see that Nicodemus had been born again and Jesus criticism should have been directed at God for Nicodemus' ignorance.
And above is just Nicodemus. How about those lost people Peter preached to, they were not born again but understood Peter's words, pricked in their heart asking what they must do.
There are numerous examples in Acts of lost people hearing and UNDERSTANDING what was being preached to them as Stephens' hearers in Acts 7 who, not born again, but understood his sermon, hated what he preached and murdered him.
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Your problem is trying to place blame on one or the other as neither are to blame.......It is obvious by context of the word that Nicodemus comes to the knowledge of the truth (based upon what he does later)...Jesus was teaching about BEING BORN AGAIN to NICODEMUS which is EXACTLY WHAT he needed.....God has given to every man the ability to believe if they will exercise faith...it is that divine spark that acknowledges the truth of God's word....Jesus in dealing with Nicodemus the way he did is exactly what he needed to realize that his (MASTERSHIP) was a farce and that he did not know as much as he thought he knew...
Someone is responsible and accountable for Nicodemus not being born again....and it's not Nicodemus...
If Nicodemus (or any man) died not being born again and lost, who's fault is that?
What Nicodemus does later has no bearing on what takes place in Jn 3 on why Nicodemus was not born again and lacked knowledge/understanding.
Why? Nicodemus would not understand a word Jesus taught.
And why do you say Nicodemus needed to be born again when that was out of his control and knowledge? Do you mean GOD NEEDED to see to it that Nicodemus be born again? If what you say is true, then God is the one at failure here for Nicodemus' ignorance and Jesus had no valid reason to upbraid Nicodemus for his ignorance brought on by God's failure to see that Nicodemus was born again.
Nicodemus ability to believe is not the issue in Jn 3. According to you, Nicodemus could not understand having not been born again and how can he ever believe when he cannot even understand?
....and it would be God's fault for Nicodemus' lack of knowledge for failing to see to it he was born again?
If what you claim is true:
--Nicodemus is innocent for his lack of knowledge,
--Christ was out of line upbraiding Nicodemus for what was out of Nicodemus' control,
--God is the one at fault for Nicodemus' ignorance.
If Nicodemus (or any man) died not being born again and lost, who's fault is that?
What Nicodemus does later has no bearing on what takes place in Jn 3 on why Nicodemus was not born again and lacked knowledge/understanding.
Why? Nicodemus would not understand a word Jesus taught.
And why do you say Nicodemus needed to be born again when that was out of his control and knowledge? Do you mean GOD NEEDED to see to it that Nicodemus be born again? If what you say is true, then God is the one at failure here for Nicodemus' ignorance and Jesus had no valid reason to upbraid Nicodemus for his ignorance brought on by God's failure to see that Nicodemus was born again.
Nicodemus ability to believe is not the issue in Jn 3. According to you, Nicodemus could not understand having not been born again and how can he ever believe when he cannot even understand?
....and it would be God's fault for Nicodemus' lack of knowledge for failing to see to it he was born again?
If what you claim is true:
--Nicodemus is innocent for his lack of knowledge,
--Christ was out of line upbraiding Nicodemus for what was out of Nicodemus' control,
--God is the one at fault for Nicodemus' ignorance.
Everything you posted is supposition, what if's and proves that you have failed to read and understand anything that I have written....and your deduced conclusions flies in the face of numerous scriptures....
What I claim is true...
a. Men are without an excuse before God if they lack salvation....
b. Where did I say Christ upbraided Nicodemus...Christ questioned Nicodemus for his lack of understanding and HIS SUPPOSED (MASTER) position..quit adding to what I said and or twisting it...
c. God has no fault as HE IS GOD....
DUDE your lack of understanding and your twist of what people say proves who really leads you and it is not the spirit of God.
I suggest you go back and read all that I have written in this thread and then come talk to me about what I said and or implied....I as one among many am sick of you and about three others on this site continually adding to what we say, twisting what we say and or flat lying about what we say....if you cannot honestly address what I write without adding to it or twisting it out of context and or applying direction and thoughts that I did not say then don't even talk to me or address anything I write....!
What I claim is true...
a. Men are without an excuse before God if they lack salvation....
b. Where did I say Christ upbraided Nicodemus...Christ questioned Nicodemus for his lack of understanding and HIS SUPPOSED (MASTER) position..quit adding to what I said and or twisting it...
c. God has no fault as HE IS GOD....
DUDE your lack of understanding and your twist of what people say proves who really leads you and it is not the spirit of God.
I suggest you go back and read all that I have written in this thread and then come talk to me about what I said and or implied....I as one among many am sick of you and about three others on this site continually adding to what we say, twisting what we say and or flat lying about what we say....if you cannot honestly address what I write without adding to it or twisting it out of context and or applying direction and thoughts that I did not say then don't even talk to me or address anything I write....!
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