When does the rapture occur?
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Appearing in the Air to Call out HIS BRIDE and Coming back to Earth to reign for a Thousand Years from throne of DAVID, are two different things.
Therein, lies the CONFUSION of post-tribbers.
The Bridegroom of 2000 years ago, was not allowed to set FOOT in the old dwelling place of the BRIDE, even when he came to get her; until AFTER THE WEDDING that took place in HIS FATHER's HOUSE.
Therein, lies the CONFUSION of post-tribbers.
The Bridegroom of 2000 years ago, was not allowed to set FOOT in the old dwelling place of the BRIDE, even when he came to get her; until AFTER THE WEDDING that took place in HIS FATHER's HOUSE.
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J
You're just being picky, antichrist already got you catatonic with strong delusions. Return in the air, return to the Mount of Olives, it's all the same. Any fool can see that. Just look at the second coming as the meeting in the air of the Mount of Olives. The only way you can know if you've been raptured is if it smells like olives. Ask Olive Oyl, Popeye!
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P
They commit to "only one coming". From this standpoint they proceed to warp all verses into what they made up in their minds. That is what we are seeing.
Remedy; Comit to truth,not a position,pull it from the word,and let the word speak and correct.
I invite them to make me postrib. Show me the doctrine in wholesome truth.
It does not TRUTHFULLY exist.They have ,sadly ,failed.
Remedy; Comit to truth,not a position,pull it from the word,and let the word speak and correct.
I invite them to make me postrib. Show me the doctrine in wholesome truth.
It does not TRUTHFULLY exist.They have ,sadly ,failed.
I have explained numerous, that it isn't a Second Coming until He has once again physically set foot on the Earth. All you guys are trying to do is put JESUS under house arrest in His Father's House.
You want PROOF that an Appearing does NOT COUNT as a SECOND COMING? You got it Toyota:
Acts 26:11-18 (ESV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And I punished them often in all the synagogues and tried to make them blaspheme, and in raging fury against them I persecuted them even to foreign cities.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] “In this connection I journeyed to Damascus with the authority and commission of the chief priests.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] At midday, O king, I saw on the way a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, that shone around me and those who journeyed with me.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And I said, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ And the Lord said, ‘I am Jesus whom you are persecuting.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But rise and stand upon your feet, for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to appoint you as a servant and witness to the things in which you have seen me and to those in which I will appear to you,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] delivering you from your people and from the Gentiles—to whom I am sending you
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
Acts 9:13-17 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] “Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard from many people about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And he has authority here from the chief priests to arrest all who call on Your name.”
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But the Lord said to him, “Go! For this man is My chosen instrument to take My name to Gentiles, kings, and the Israelites.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] I will show him how much he must suffer for My name!”
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So Ananias left and entered the house. Then he placed his hands on him and said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road you were traveling, has sent me so that you can regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”
You want PROOF that an Appearing does NOT COUNT as a SECOND COMING? You got it Toyota:
Acts 26:11-18 (ESV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And I punished them often in all the synagogues and tried to make them blaspheme, and in raging fury against them I persecuted them even to foreign cities.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] “In this connection I journeyed to Damascus with the authority and commission of the chief priests.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] At midday, O king, I saw on the way a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, that shone around me and those who journeyed with me.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And I said, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ And the Lord said, ‘I am Jesus whom you are persecuting.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But rise and stand upon your feet, for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to appoint you as a servant and witness to the things in which you have seen me and to those in which I will appear to you,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] delivering you from your people and from the Gentiles—to whom I am sending you
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
Acts 9:13-17 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] “Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard from many people about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And he has authority here from the chief priests to arrest all who call on Your name.”
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But the Lord said to him, “Go! For this man is My chosen instrument to take My name to Gentiles, kings, and the Israelites.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] I will show him how much he must suffer for My name!”
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So Ananias left and entered the house. Then he placed his hands on him and said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road you were traveling, has sent me so that you can regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”
The "shortening of the days" has everything to do with the end of it - and nothing to do with the length of it... 
It is what happens at the end of it that causes it to have to be shortened.
( And, we are not to the end of it, yet... )
This happened in 70 A.D. ( The Christians fled to safety. The non-believing Jews did not. )
It is what happens at the end of it that causes it to have to be shortened.( And, we are not to the end of it, yet...
)This happened in 70 A.D. ( The Christians fled to safety. The non-believing Jews did not. )
Gary, you are wrong about your 70 A.D. THEORY. The Hour of Trial will come upon the WHOLE WORLD; while 70 A.D. only happened to those in Jerusalem:
Revelation 3:10 (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.
Matthew 24:21-22 (HCSB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For at that time there will be great tribulation, the kind that hasn’t taken place from the beginning of the world until now and never will again! ☜
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Unless those days were limited, no one would survive. But those days will be limited because of the elect.
Absolute proof that it WAS NOT 70 A.D. is the fact that Adolf Hitler murdered six million Jews. AND if you read the rest of the prophecies, about the GREAT TRIBULATION, you will find out that two thirds of the world's population will die. So it will be WAY WORSE THAN WWII.
Revelation 6:9-11 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
Revelation 7:13-15 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?"
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.
YES, 70 A.D. was A tribulation, and there have been many tribulations; but NOTHING will compare to Massive Genocide that WILL HAPPEN WORLDWIDE IN THE GREAT TRIBULATION.
G
I agree. ( Not with the first sentence, however. )
I never said that 70 A.D. was the "Hour of Trial" -- that is yet future -- at the END of the Great Tribulation.
What I have said:
~ 70 A.D. marks the beginning of the Great Tribulation.
~ We are still in it.
~ The end of it is in the future.
~ The worst of it is yet to come.
)I never said that 70 A.D. was the "Hour of Trial" -- that is yet future -- at the END of the Great Tribulation.
What I have said:
~ 70 A.D. marks the beginning of the Great Tribulation.
~ We are still in it.
~ The end of it is in the future.
~ The worst of it is yet to come.
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G
Show me the Chapter and Verse on that one. YOU, all by yourself, have put JESUS on HOUSE ARREST in Heaven, and YOU are forbidding HIM to travel anywhere outside of Heaven; just so you can protect your anti-Pretrib THEORY.
It is NOT a Second Coming to Earth until HIS feet touch the ground:
Zechariah 14:4 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. The Mount of Olives will be split in half from east to west, forming a huge valley, so that half the mountain will move to the north and half to the south.
THEN AND ONLY THEN IS IT THE SECOND COMING TO EARTH.
YOU, all by yourself, have put JESUS on HOUSE ARREST in Heaven, and YOU are forbidding HIM to travel anywhere outside of Heaven; just so you can protect your anti-Pretrib THEORY. It is NOT a Second Coming to Earth until HIS feet touch the ground:
Zechariah 14:4 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. The Mount of Olives will be split in half from east to west, forming a huge valley, so that half the mountain will move to the north and half to the south.
THEN AND ONLY THEN IS IT THE SECOND COMING TO EARTH.
G
You have the Bride married before all who are supposed to be a part of her are in "glorified-body" form. This completely "runs against" Biblical truth.
[ Presently, at this time -- ] I believe that the souls "under the alter" are those from the past ( the Dark Ages ) and the ones they are "waiting for" are from the future ( Revelation 20:4 martyrs ) -- all are 'Tribulation' martyrs.
[ Presently, at this time -- ] I believe that the souls "under the alter" are those from the past ( the Dark Ages ) and the ones they are "waiting for" are from the future ( Revelation 20:4 martyrs ) -- all are 'Tribulation' martyrs.