TRINITY: Is This Doctrine Found In The Bible?

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onwingsaseagles

Guest
#41
#41
jesse said:
no Jesus is the son of God .like you are the son of your father ( the word begotten of the father)
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Before we go further, I must know do you accept that the Bible is truth? If so explain these passages that clearly show that Jesus is indeed God Himself.

John 1:1-2 & 14
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Jesus was God made flesh.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Jesus is one with God

John 14:7-9
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Jesus says that He is God the Father Himself.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
Thomas Calls Jesus God.

1st Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
God was manifest in the Flesh as the Son

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Jesus is our great God and Savior

Revelation1:17-18
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Jesus is the first and the last ''God Himself''
 
O

onwingsaseagles

Guest
#42
#42
onwingsaseagles said:
Before we go further, I must know do you accept that the Bible is truth? If so explain these passages that clearly show that Jesus is indeed God Himself.

John 1:1-2 & 14
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Jesus was God made flesh.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Jesus is one with God

John 14:7-9
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Jesus says that He is God the Father Himself.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
Thomas Calls Jesus God.

1st Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
God was manifest in the Flesh as the Son

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Jesus is our great God and Savior

Revelation1:17-18
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Jesus is the first and the last ''God Himself''
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How do you explain these passages Jesse?
 
O

onwingsaseagles

Guest
#43
#43
Jesse, can you not explain those verses?
 
C

Charles

Guest
#44
#44
Free will? Did not Jesus have his own will? Mt. 26:39; Mk:. 14:36; Lk. 22:42 " Not my will but thine be done ". Now, Since Jesus had his on will can't everyone else? Joshua gave the people a choice in Joshua 24:15, "choose you this day whom ye will serve." Since Jesus had his own will, how could he be God?
 
O

onwingsaseagles

Guest
#45
#45
Charles said:
Free will? Did not Jesus have his own will? Mt. 26:39; Mk:. 14:36; Lk. 22:42 " Not my will but thine be done ". Now, Since Jesus had his on will can't everyone else? Joshua gave the people a choice in Joshua 24:15, "choose you this day whom ye will serve." Since Jesus had his own will, how could he be God?
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start a thread on free will i would like to hear what people have to say on the subject.
 
J

jesse

Guest
#46
#46
onwingsaseagles said:
Jesse, can you not explain those verses?
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what about these verses Ephesians 4: 3-6 Endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bonds of peace. 4. there is one body, and one spirit,even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5. One lord(Jesus), one faith, one baptism, 6 ONE GOD and FATHER of all, who is above all, and through all and in you all......
we are one with God also, but that does not make us God.but sons of God.... !tim 2:5 for there is ONE God, and one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus...Gal 3: 20 now a mediator is not a mediator of one, But GOD is ONE....James 2:19 Thou believes that there is ONE GOD ;thou does well: the devils also believe, and tremble. did you look up the words born and begetten yet? in Christ's love jesse
 
C

Charles

Guest
#47
#47
I was about to write basically the same: John Ch. 17. We are one in God also but that doesn't make us God. As u well know, God dwelt in Christ, if Jesus was God then why would God have to dwell in himself? Jesus spoke the words that the Father gave him, same principle, Why wouldn't he speak his own words if he were GOd?
 
O

onwingsaseagles

Guest
#48
#48
jesse said:
what about these verses Ephesians 4: 3-6 Endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bonds of peace. 4. there is one body, and one spirit,even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5. One lord(Jesus), one faith, one baptism, 6 ONE GOD and FATHER of all, who is above all, and through all and in you all......
we are one with God also, but that does not make us God.but sons of God.... !tim 2:5 for there is ONE God, and one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus...Gal 3: 20 now a mediator is not a mediator of one, But GOD is ONE....James 2:19 Thou believes that there is ONE GOD ;thou does well: the devils also believe, and tremble. did you look up the words born and begetten yet? in Christ's love jesse
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I take that as a no I can't explain them, so I will ignore them and divert the conversation away from them.
 
O

onwingsaseagles

Guest
#49
#49
Can anyone who denies the deity of Christ explain these verses without ignoring them, and or diverting the conversation away from them. Can you explain why theses verses say Jesus is God, if He is not?


John 1:1-2 & 14
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Jesus was God made flesh.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Jesus is one with God

John 14:7-9
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Jesus says that He is God the Father Himself.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
Thomas Calls Jesus God.

1st Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
God was manifest in the Flesh as the Son

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Jesus is our great God and Savior

Revelation1:17-18
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Jesus is the first and the last ''God Himself''
 
J

jesse

Guest
#50
#50
onwingsaseagles said:
I take that as a no I can't explain them, so I will ignore them and divert the conversation away from them.
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you need to study the words ...born and begotten. too be born is to bring into existence .... begotten..become the father of .....God became the father of Jesus.yes these words are in the bible. never is Jesus called God the son. and what about the third person of the trinity?Holy Ghost?....1 john 1:3 and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his son Jesus Christ.... what we don't have fellowship with the Holy Ghost?...what up with that. in the book of romans 1:7 grace to you and peace from God our Father,and the Lord Jesus Christ....( no holy ghost ) and in1 cor3..no holy ghost there ,and 2 cor1;2 no holy ghost there, and gal1;3 no holy ghost there, and eph.1: 2 no holy ghost there, and phlip. 1:2 no holy spirit there ,col.1: on H.G. there, 1 thes 1;2 no H.G. there, 2 thes1:2 no H.G. there, 1 tim 1:2 no H.G. there 2 tim 1:2 no H.G. there titus 1: no H.G. there, and phil.1:3 no H.G. trhere and1 peter 1;2again no H.G. , and2 peter 1:2 again no H.G. and 1 john 1:3 no H.G. jude1:1 no H.S. i guest paul forgot about the HolyGhost? i guess he don't have any grace and peace from the Holy Ghost.in Christ Love Jesse ...i think that God choses he work wisely. it sad that people put there own private interation to his word.
 
C

Charles

Guest
#51
#51
God spoke through his disciples: Mt. !):19-20; v. 20. "For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you." God also speaks through other priests: Jo. 11:49-52; as he did Caiaphas, the high priest, take note, v.51, "And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesusshould die for that nation.Rhis shows that God speaks through other priests but that doesn't make them of the truth. God dwelt in Christ: @ Cor. 5:19,"To wit, that God was in Christ: Now, according to the Trinity he would bedwelling in himself! Now, Jesus spoke to Philip:Jo. 17:8-11,"Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the fAther, and it sufficet us. 9) Jesus... Have I been so long with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip?... I speak not of myself but the Father that dwelleth in me,he doth the works..." Look close at v.9,This was God speaking through Jesus, the rest was Jesus speaking himself.
 
C

Charles

Guest
#52
#52
Enjoyed this message.
 
J

jesse

Guest
#53
#53
onwingsaseagles said:
I take that as a no I can't explain them, so I will ignore them and divert the conversation away from them.
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ok John 1:1,2 Greek(logo) .... word= means "word" or "communication"...Greek (pros) ..with= together with, yet distinctly independent of.Example eph.1:4 According as he (god) hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world.... see we were with God before the foundation of the world.... where you may ask, in God's foreknowledge. God knew that we would believe in the furture . ..in the beginning was the logos (word) the logos (word) was God,and the logos (word) was God. ....the word used in this verse is both the written word, which we speak of today asthe bible,and Christ, the word in person.....verse 2..the same( same what.... word) was in the beginning with(pros) God. versse 14 and the word was made flesh (Christ the living word) ,and dwell among us, (and we beheld his (jesus) glory, the glory as of the only BEGOTTEN of the FATHER), full of grace and truth .as being one with God we are also but that doesn't make us God. .. yes God is our savior who made it possible for us to be saved through Christ Jesus our lord and savior. we have God spirit in us just like Jesus had God's spirit in him. that it for now. study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth....this is the truth that i learn in my studies in Christ's Love Jesse Study the words ..begotten..and born...
 
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christiancanadian

Guest
#54
#54
Scriptural Proof of Trinity (ref: gotquestions.org)
1) There is one God: Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5.

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons: Genesis 1:1; 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8; 48:16; 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17; Matt 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14. In the passages in the Old Testament, a knowledge of Hebrew is helpful. In Genesis 1:1, the plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26; 3:22; 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for "us" is used. That "Elohim" and "us" refer to more than two is without question. In English, we only have two forms, singular and plural. In Hebrew, you have three forms: singular, dual, and plural. Dual is for two ONLY. In Hebrew, the dual form is used for things that come in pairs like eyes, ears, and hands. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun "us" are plural forms
 
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christiancanadian

Guest
#55
#55
3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages: In the Old Testament, "LORD" is distinguished from "Lord" (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from "God" (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament John 14:16-17, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit. This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all of the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another person in the Trinity—the Father.
4) Each member of the Trinity is God: The Father is God: John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2. The Son is God: John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20. The Holy Spirit is God: Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16. (The One who indwells is the Holy Spirit - Romans 8:9; John 14:16-17; Acts 2:1-4).
 
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christiancanadian

Guest
#56
#56
5) The subordination within the Trinity: Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see: Luke 22:42; John 5:36; John 20:21; 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see: John 14:16; 14:26; 15:26; 16:7 and especially John 16:13-14.
6) The tasks of the individual members of the Trinity: The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.
The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1; Matthew 11:27; John 16:12-15; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.
The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.
None of the popular illustrations are completely accurate descriptions of the Trinity. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not parts of God, each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better but still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration. Instead of focusing on the Trinity, try to focus on the fact of God's greatness and infinitely higher nature than our own. "Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?" (Romans 11:33-34)
 
M

markhelp

Banned
#57
Dec 24, 2008
119
0
0
#57
In the New Testament Jesus Christ is referred to as God's Son 68 times
I've never seen the phrase "God the Son" ........nor "trinity"
If Jesus Christ is God, then the Bible contains too many contradictions
If Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then I find no contradiction whatsoever
I'll stick with Jesus Christ as the Son of God. I'd rather believe the Bible than take the word of man.
I also do my homework..........the doctrine of the Trinity started in the Fourth century
 
C

Charles

Guest
#58
#58
In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, the word is God. The word is God. Yes, He was made flesh; that is, manifested in the flesh, for he dwelt in Christ,1 Cor. 5:19. Just where do u see that the Son of God is God? U keep seeing things that are not there. Sure the Son's name is Jesus Because God gave him this name Phil.2:9 ' but When Jesus turns everything back to the Father (! Cor. 15:27-28), then he shall receive his own new name (Rev. 3:12). So, when you speak of the Father, Spirit(Which is God), or Son , the name is Jesus. 1 John 5:7, The Father, the Word, The Holy Spirit are God, they are one, Jesus the man is the Son of God, not the Word, which is God.
 
O

onwingsaseagles

Guest
#59
#59
Charles said:
In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, the word is God. The word is God. Yes, He was made flesh; that is, manifested in the flesh, for he dwelt in Christ,1 Cor. 5:19. Just where do u see that the Son of God is God? U keep seeing things that are not there. Sure the Son's name is Jesus Because God gave him this name Phil.2:9 ' but When Jesus turns everything back to the Father (! Cor. 15:27-28), then he shall receive his own new name (Rev. 3:12). So, when you speak of the Father, Spirit(Which is God), or Son , the name is Jesus. 1 John 5:7, The Father, the Word, The Holy Spirit are God, they are one, Jesus the man is the Son of God, not the Word, which is God.
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Jesus is God made flesh. however you are wrong and the Trinitarian are wrong if the two groups could combine your beliefs into one you would be right.

#1 You are right because the word is God the Father (there is no and never was a ''God the Son'')
#2 The trinitarians are right that Jesus is God in the flesh (but not God the Son in the flesh, God the Father manifest in the flesh as the Son)
 
J

Joshdharris

Guest
#60
#60
The Biblical view is that God is 1 divine spirit eternally manifested as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

With our mortal minds we can't understand it, but effectively there is only 1 God - This is the most important thing to remember.

However He reveals Himself in 3 different forms, so to speak.

So although He is 1, because He is God, He can manifest (or make Himself) appear in more than 1 form. You can't understand it because our brains are finite and created but as God is God, He could make Himself appear in more than 1 form whilst it is still Him.

The really bad example I use to help me understand is imagining water. Whether it's water, ice or steam, it's still water. So even if God is being revealed at that time as Father, or Son, or Holy Spirit, it's still God.
 
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