For those who believe in false conversions even when people return...

[phil112]

......................I might be pushing with the sex addict thing, ..............

Might be pushing it? You stated the bible said something it doesn't. That isn't "pushing" it, that is a lie.

 

[alan68]

PRODIGAL: having or giving something on a lavish scale.
"the dessert was crunchy with brown sugar and prodigal with whipped cream"
synonyms:generous, lavish, liberal, unstinting, unsparing;
literary-bounteous

I've always wondered what the actual definition of that word was, and why it was good to be a "child prodigy" but bad to be a "prodigal son." Now it makes more sense. Thanks.

 

[Elin]

What does that story about the prodigal son mean to you?

I get this feeling because I was born again and then did some really stupid/sinful things, you might think I was falsely converted. Really not. Good sense and intelligence aren't a first-thing-God-gives thing.

I have eaten the pigs' food. God didn't disown me for my stupidity. His food is better, so I came back.

That's how I see it. How do you see it?

I see the parable to be about the attitude of the Pharisees (Lk 15:28-29) at the inclusion of the Gentiles in the sons of God (Lk 15:30-31).

 

[Jason0047]

and that response and misuse of Scripture should speak volumes.

Disagreeing with the passage does not prove anything. You actually have to prove that is what it is not saying by showing me the context and or other verses that would say otherwise.

 

[Jason0047]

Can you explain how a person, who was condemned by the law. and saved from that condemnation. could again be condemned by the law. Since no one, saved or not saved, can meet the requirement of the law (perfection).

A sinner, falling back to be a sinner , or a person saved from the condemnation of the law, yet is not really saved at all, makes no sense to us logical people.

The son still had his fathers blood in him, You can not break that bond, a son is always a son through blood. even people in Jesus day understood this.

We were adopted. paid for by the blood of Christ, that blood does not just stop running through us, that is perfect blood.

One, the Bible mentions that we are to obey the Law of Christ and that we are to love God and to love our neighbors. For even Paul said, shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Paul's answer to that question was.... "God forbid." Meaning, you can't continue in sin. Two, the Bible talks about in several places about if you sin, you are separated from God. I mean, just look at Adam and Eve. They were in a right relationship with God and sin had separated that relationship.

Here is a conditional promise. Can you tell me what the condition is?

Romans 11:20-22
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shall be cut off.

Hebrews 10:26, 38
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
38 Now the just shall live by faith: butif any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

 

[Jason0047]

The Bibe defines sin as transgression of the Law. Believers are told by John not to sin, but if they do sin, they have an advocate that they can go to named Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1). For if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). Then.... if we walk in the light as he is in the light then the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7). For he that says he has fellowship with him and walks in darkness lies and does not the truth (1 John 1:6). Those who walk darkness and say they have fellowship with him are those who believe they can sin and still be saved today (Which is popular among OSAS and or the Antinomianism beliefs). Yes, not all OSAS proponents believe you can sin and still be saved, but most do because they think you do not have to confess and forsake sin as a requirement for salvation. One can just live for themselves and sin and still have their ticket to Heaven. However, this is not what the Bible teaches, though. God wants us to confess and forsake our sins and serve Him.

 

[Jason0047]

its all good and thanks. I was going off what I knew about him, Did not check my source to make sure it said literally that.

The point remains the same, that Jesus did not do what Jason says we should do. do he must not have gotten the memo.

I believe Jesus wants us to repent of our sins and to follow His commands as laid out in the New Testament (and not the Old Testament). Please take note that I believe a person is saved the instant they repent of their sins and accept Jesus Christ. Yet, I believe that a true faith will continue to bear good fruit in time and obey the teachings of Jesus Christ. They will not live in sin as a way of life and if they do sin, they willl confess and forsake that sin. Where do you think Jesus Christ disagrees with this type of teaching?

 

[Jason0047]

poor Jesus did not get the memo. he was called a drunkard and a sex fanatic because he hung out with drunks and prostitutes

Not sure what this has to do with the Parable of the Prodigal Son and for people in one's family who are dead who can no longer be a part of their lives in a living functional way anymore. Anyways, Jesus was not a sinner just because he hung out with sinners. Nor did Jesus approve of their sinful life style. Jesus was around them so as to get them to repent (i.e. to confess their sins to God and to forsake them). Jesus would never condone unbelievers or believers in doing evil. Yet, that is what the "sin and still be saved" position promotes. For if one believes future sin is forgiven them, then they will sin thinking they are saved at some point.

Those washed and purchased by his blood. Justified by faith, Adopted as his children. are a true part of Gods family.

Jesus said his mother, brother, and sisters are those who do the will of God. So if one is not doing the will of God then one is not a part of God's family.

and you think people believe someone who claims to be saved, but continues to live in sin is realy saved? it is obvious you do not have an inkling of what people believe. you should stop preaching and start listening, and maybe you will come to some understanding.

You hold to the view that no believer can ever stop sinning. That no believer can be perfect or never sin again. This is what the majority of the churches teach today, but it is not Biblical. Yet, how is sin dealt with when it arises, though. Well, according to what you believe, once a son, they are always a son. Which implies no sin can separate you from God. This is a justification for a sin and still be saved doctrine. For you can sin at times and still think you are saved with expressing no remorse to God and with no desire to ever truly stop (if you don't want to). For once a son, always a son... right?

the people who do what jesus said in matt are those who have been washed in the blood. adopted by God etc etc. they do not obey to be saved, but as a result of being saved and given the spirit.

Yes. I would agree with what you had said here. People who obey Jesus and His teachings and who stop sinning are already saved. They are not seeking to be saved by doing those things, but they are merely doing what their Lord requires of them out of love. However, if they choose not to obey the Lord and or they choose to sin the rest of their life, then they are turning their back on God. For sin has always been the cause of separation between God and man. For what makes you think you are different than Adam and Eve? Did Adam and Eve have the Law of Moses? Obeying Jesus and His teachings is the fruit that one has been saved. Yet, if any man draws back, his soul will have no pleasure in him.

 

[psychomom]

Disagreeing with the passage does not prove anything. You actually have to prove that is what it is not saying by showing me the context and or other verses that would say otherwise.

i don't disagree with the passage.
i could show my children what it's saying in a few minutes.

 

[Jason0047]

the sinners would have been the prostitutes. How many prostitute friends did jesus have?

The idea, is like the idea of the legalistic church, If you hang out with them, you must participate in their sin, or may fall into temptation. so we must separate ourselves from them.

No. We need to be like Christ and go out to them.

I might be pushing with the sex addict thing, since your right it does not come out and say that. But I am sure they did, all his prostitute friends (he even stood up for one when he said let he who has no sin cast the first stone)

There is a popular song in Christianity today. It basically says Jesus is a friend of sinners. However, that is not true. Jesus is a friend of those who repented of their sins. So when you say Jesus had many prostitute friends, that would not be a true statement. Yes, some of them might have used to have been prostitutes in their old life, but they were still not a practicing prostitute when they met Jesus, though. Do God's people struggle with sin? Yes, but they do not remain as sinners as a way of life, though. Besides Judas who later fell by his trangression, the disciples did not live immoral lives. Jesus did not hang out with people who were immoral and think they were saved if they continued to sin. For Jesus told the woman who was caught in the act of adultery to sin no more. Does that sound like Jesus approves of people sinning? No. Jesus said he was amongst them because he was to be physician. A person who is a physician is one who heals people. Heals them of what? Sin. For the Scriptures say Jesus Christ was manifested to destroy the works of the devil.

 

[crossnote]

Yes but the FATHER was never prodigal... nor Has he ever been. careful.... it was the son/daughter who is the prodigal... from a Spiritual Standpoint.. to say the Father was Prodigal also is to call God a 'sinner'. and I dont think you want to do that nor was this your intent.. Jesus's Parables had Spiritual Meaning, He hid these from the wise, the learned, those who were prideful in their own eyes.. He revealed those to who were His, quietly and when they were by themselves... 'for unto you it is GIVEN(GRANTED) TO KNOW the MYSTERIES OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, BUT to these who are without, not, so that the Prophesy of Isaiah as Fulfilled.. indeed!

THE FATHER WAS PRODIGAL!!! That's the true point of the story.
God generously has forgiven us lavishing His great love upon us, sending His only Son to die in our stead and robing us in His righteousness even though we spurned Him.
Where in the parable is the word 'prodigal' used? Where did I imply the Father sinful by complementing him with the adjective 'prodigal'?
Did you even read the definition I posted?
Do you read the posts before posting?

 

[Jason0047]

i don't disagree with the passage.
i could show my children what it's saying in a few minutes.

My point is how could you tell them circumcision is not talking about a seal when it is talking about how it is a seal. How could you explain to them that your circumcision is made uncircumisicion if you break the law? Do you think Christians are without any kind of laws? Does not Paul say there is a Law of Christ? Does not Paul say to us in the Scriptures that what he has written for us believers should be regarded as the Lord's Commandments? Is not sin, transgression of the law (As mentioned in Scripture)? So if that is true, then how can one confess sin if there is no sin or law to trangress for believers today?

 

[dcontroversal]

It is a story about wasting your inheritance by riotious living.....it is not about losing salvation.....he wa a SON through the whole process, was alive when percieved as dead by his lifstyle and is received as a son with a ring and a robe.....for those who like to make this about losing salvation to support their false gospel.....tragic ignorance and a religious twist at best!

 

[crossnote]

There is a popular song in Christianity today. It basically says Jesus is a friend of sinners. However, that is not true. Jesus is a friend of those who repented of their sins. So when you say Jesus had many prostitute friends, that would not be a true statement. Yes, some of them might have used to have been prostitutes in their old life, but they were still not a practicing prostitute when they met Jesus, though. Do God's people struggle with sin? Yes, but they do not remain as sinners as a way of life, though. Besides Judas who later fell by his trangression, the disciples did not live immoral lives. Jesus did not hang out with people who were immoral and think they were saved if they continued to sin. For Jesus told the woman who was caught in the act of adultery to sin no more. Does that sound like Jesus approves of people sinning? No. Jesus said he was amongst them because he was to be physician. A person who is a physician is one who heals people. Heals them of what? Sin. For the Scriptures say Jesus Christ was manifested to destroy the works of the devil.

Oh ok, Jesus ate with His enemies. sheeesh.

And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
(Mat 9:11)

The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
(Luk 7:34)

 

[Jason0047]

THE FATHER WAS PRODIGAL!!! That's the true point of the story.
God generously has forgiven us lavishing His great love upon us, sending His only Son to die in our stead and robing us in His righteousness even though we spurned Him.
Where in the parable is the word 'prodigal' used? Where did I imply the Father sinful by complementing him with the adjective 'prodigal'?
Did you even read the definition I posted?
Do you read the posts before posting?

Not sure how you can say the father was prodigal. Such a statement does not make any sense. It was the son who went prodigal; Not the father.

 

[Jason0047]

Oh ok, Jesus ate with His enemies. sheeesh.

And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
(Mat 9:11)

There is no reason to downplay what he said. He said he was a friend of sinners. There is a difference of going into a bar so as to evangelize people and hanging out with your old drinking buddies because you don't mind being around their sinful habits.

 

[Jason0047]

It is a story about wasting your inheritance by riotious living.....it is not about losing salvation.....he wa a SON through the whole process, was alive when percieved as dead by his lifstyle and is received as a son with a ring and a robe.....for those who like to make this about losing salvation to support their false gospel.....tragic ignorance and a religious twist at best!

No, that is not true. The father said "twice" that his son was dead and he was alive again. This was speaking in spiritual terms. Which is also confirmed in James 5:19-21 about the backslidden sinning believer being renewed back to the faith to the saving of their soul.

 

[crossnote]

Not sure how you can say the father was prodigal. Such a statement does not make any sense. It was the son who went prodigal; Not the father.

Take a dictionary and look up the word prodigal. Then ask yourself if our Father's love and the father in the parable was not lavish.
That's why the older brother got upset ...because the father was lavishing forgiveness and favor on the younger son.

 

[Jason0047]

Take a dictionary and look up the word prodigal. Then ask yourself if our Father's love and the father in the parable was not lavish. That's why the older brother got upset ...because the father was lavishing forgiveness and favor on the younger son.

No. The father was not in the wrong for forgiving his son when he came back and in celebrating his return. The brother was in the wrong for being upset that all the attention was going to him.

 

[p_rehbein]

Hmm, here..........enjoy