For those who believe in false conversions even when people return...

[JesusLives]

He thought why am I sitting here eating pig slop when if I go home I can ask my father to be one of his servants and at least the food they are fed is better than this then he went home and his father saw him a far distance and ran to him put on his robe and gave him his ring.......He fell on his father and asked forgiveness and his father accepted him.......

Where is the love? Cookie?

They will know you are my disciples if ye love one another......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not sure what this has to do with the Parable of the Prodigal Son and for people in one's family who are dead who can no longer be a part of their lives in a living functional way anymore. Anyways, Jesus was not a sinner just because he hung out with sinners. Nor did Jesus approve of their sinful life style. Jesus was around them so as to get them to repent (i.e. to confess their sins to God and to forsake them). Jesus would never condone unbelievers or believers in doing evil. Yet, that is what the "sin and still be saved" position promotes. For if one believes future sin is forgiven them, then they will sin thinking they are saved at some point.

Like everyone else, your blind to the point.

You told us not to hang out with sinners, And yes it does have everything to do with the prodigal son. Jesus hung our with sinners, yet had no sin (even though he was called a sinner by people like you in his day) just like the prodigal son hung out whit sinners.

The difference is, Jesus was there to heal them, the prodigal was there to join them. Jesus loved them, and many got saved, The prodigal realized they were nothing, and this brought him to repentance.

Jesus said his mother, brother, and sisters are those who do the will of God. So if one is not doing the will of God then one is not a part of God's family.

Yep. They will do the will of God. So much for LOSING SALVATION.

You hold to the view that no believer can ever stop sinning. That no believer can be perfect or never sin again. This is what the majority of the churches teach today, but it is not Biblical.

If we say we have no sin, WE DECIEVE OURSELVES, AND THERE IS NO TRUTH IN US.

We know who does not speak truth now. Thanks for showing us

Yet, how is sin dealt with when it arises, though. Well, according to what you believe, once a son, they are always a son. Which implies no sin can separate you from God. This is a justification for a sin and still be saved doctrine. For you can sin at times and still think you are saved with expressing no remorse to God and with no desire to ever truly stop (if you don't want to). For once a son, always a son... right?

1. No child of God would sin with no remorse
2. God chastens those who are his. What child is not affected by chastening?
3. When you claim you can be perfect. your blind to your inner sins, and you may not be a drunk, pot smoker or sex addict. But as Jesus called the pharisees, your whitewashed tombs, because your blind to your inner sin, and refuse to even see it.

When you KNOW you will still sin, And look for it, You see how much of a sinner you really are, You do not continue in it, You try HARDER to fight that sin, because your AWARE of it, Where a legalist like you just hides it,

Your the one excusing sin, you deny it is even there.

Yes. I would agree with what you had said here. People who obey Jesus and His teachings and who stop sinning are already saved. They are not seeking to be saved by doing those things, but they are merely doing what their Lord requires of them out of love. However, if they choose not to obey the Lord and or they choose to sin the rest of their life, then they are turning their back on God. For sin has always been the cause of separation between God and man. For what makes you think you are different than Adam and Eve? Did Adam and Eve have the Law of Moses? Obeying Jesus and His teachings is the fruit that one has been saved. Yet, if any man draws back, his soul will have no pleasure in him.

So a baby stops sinning completely. Tell me how he can do this, when he does not even yet comprehend everything that is sin?

You have people getting saved, and being super spiritually mature children of God unable to sin.

Nice try but no cigar. the real world does not work that way, only maybe in your fantasy world.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

WRONG?????????????????????????????????????
Who said the father was wrong?
Is Redtent helping you with your posts?

I love how people want us to listen to them as they are scholars and masters of the word. yet they can not even read what we say, and understand.

How can we trust them with Gods word, when they can not even properly interpret what we say.

it amazes me.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

I love how people want us to listen to them as they are scholars and masters of the word. yet they can not even read what we say, and understand.

How can we trust them with Gods word, when they can not even properly interpret what we say.

it amazes me.

Word calls them Wells without water! Ordained to this ... Lots of. that today.

 

[oldthennew]

we can only love others if we love our heavenly Father first -
and we can only love Him if He implants His Holy Spirit
within us.

all the carnal world can only experience affection and not Holy Love
until that moment of conversion and experience in the new realm
of God's will and Holiness.

conviction becomes paramount in our walk, as Christ sits on the
right hand of the Father waiting to intercede for us when we
come to Him in repentance.

old-man-sinning is to be over-come and we gradually grow in
grace and Godly character -
if we bury our talents in the sand, what will our Master say and do
at His return?

He cherishes us, and must cherish one another.

 

[prodigal]

james 1:19

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:

Galatians 6 King James Version (KJV)

6 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For every man shall bear his own burden.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
This you know, my beloved brethren But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger;

[h=1]Matthew 5:9King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]9 [/SUP]Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

 

[Jimbone]

This too reeks of ignorance and is an excuse to justify a false doctrine that you teach.....John was way more of a Christian then you will ever be and stated clearly that if we say that we have no sin the truth is not in us and we are decieved...so I have two questions for you....maybe three..

1. Are you without sin
2. Are you decieved

Dang man this comment "John was way more of a Christian then you will ever be", is not sitting right with me. There is no "more Christian" or "less Christian" amongst the bride. If we are saved we are equal (really we are "equal" regardless), and brothers. I am just as much a Christian as Peter, Paul, John, etc.... and so are you and anyone else that has ever truly been saved and regenerated by the blood, and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. I'm not trying to start an argument nor am I trying to "teach" you or anything like that, just that comment didn't sit right with me, or match you to be honest, at least when weighted as a whole with your other comments and the view you usually present. I’m sure it wasn’t meant in that exact context, but I just felt compelled to comment on it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

we can only love others if we love our heavenly Father first -
and we can only love Him if He implants His Holy Spirit
within us.

all the carnal world can only experience affection and not Holy Love
until that moment of conversion and experience in the new realm
of God's will and Holiness.

conviction becomes paramount in our walk, as Christ sits on the
right hand of the Father waiting to intercede for us when we
come to Him in repentance.

old-man-sinning is to be over-come and we gradually grow in
grace and Godly character -
if we bury our talents in the sand, what will our Master say and do
at His return?

He cherishes us, and must cherish one another.

we must als realise (as hard as that may be) that we are all not brothers and sisters here, there are many preaching a gospel with no power to save, they are lost, and will lead others to hell with them.

If one notices, when they first come in, it is nice conversation, no judging, but the more they try to impose their false gospel on people, and start to say things which are not true about them, then things get heated.

it has been that way since I have been here.

 

[BradC]

I can say the same for many here, as well. For if the error is in telling others that they must obey the teachings of Jesus Christ and thinking it is wrong that believers can get away with a sin and still be saved doctrine.... then by all means.... charge me as guilty. However, everything I have said has already been confirmed with Scripture and by way of using real world examples (of which you can never do with a false doctrine or belief like OSAS). For do you honestly believe God will reward His people with Heaven for doing evil against Him? I say thee nay. God is Holy, righteous, and just. He will not allow anyone to get away with sin or evil.

Jason, this is a little unorthodox but is there any sin of the flesh that you would like to engage in if you knew that God would turn his back and let you get away with it without you losing your salvation? Any believer, who lives by the grace of God, knows that they could never do it, nor would want to do such a thing with a good conscience because of what Christ did on the cross. They may fail through the weakness of the flesh but would know inwardly through conviction from the word and the Spirit they were not right in doing so.

I am talking about those OSAS believers you so often refer to. If the believer were to continue in sin or in the flesh because of rebellion or some bitterness in his heart, God would bring that believer into a plan of chastening that would be very grievous for him and that would include details in that believer's life that are unique only to him. This could last for a short or long time, but eventually they would be brought to their knees in humility having no more room to live in the flesh. That is what happened to the prodigal son and is an example to those that take their inheritance in this life and spend it on riotous living and dead works of the flesh.

The older brother was serving his father and doing his duty in the field but had no love for his younger brother. He did not appreciate how the father welcomed his younger brother into the family fold with the fatted calf, the robe, the shoes and the ring. The older brother was jealous and thought that the celebration was undeserved and refused to attend the celebration.

Jason, do you identify with the older brother who worked diligently in the field but would have nothing to do with his brother's return? He accused him of having spent his substance with harlots (prostitutes), when his father never even mentioned it and never considered it as a factor for how he treated his younger son's return.

 

[Elin]

There are four theories of salvation (restrictive, wider hope, universal, unitarian),

three theories of the security of the believer (eternal security, continued faith, faith & works),

two theories of the destiny of the saved (soul present with the lord, soul sleep)

and three theories of the destiny of the lost (conscious everlasting punishment,

temporary purgatory, total annihilation).

I vote for what the Bible presents.

 

[oldthennew]

eg,

when things get hot, we use our power through Christ to remain cool -
we analyze the situations at hand and minister, even if they be antagonistic
or even hateful or preaching//speaking out of sincerity but coupled with mis-understanding -
the list goes on and on as we go on and on,
so we take what we learn from our own introspection and the motes
that we have plucked out of our own eyes and hopefully minister to those
whom our Father has brought us into contact with in a manner that's pleasing
to Him and that will help others and ourselves to be better in Christ's eyes, all the way around.

the opportunities and challenges here, lay in the fact that we can hone our discerning skills
and discipline ourselves in numerous ways -

may the peace of God keep our hearts and minds through Christ Jesus our Lord'.

 

[Elin]

no one stops sinning

Well, I am not surprised you believe that. The majority of churches teach this as a matter of fact with
no actual Scripture verses to back up that statement.

Check out the letters of John.

 

[SarahM777]

Check out the letters of John.

Most of them never deal with their own UNKNOWN sins. (The sins we have done but have not yet been convicted of)

 

[psychomom]

conviction becomes paramount in our walk, as Christ sits on the
right hand of the Father waiting to intercede for us when we
come to Him in repentance.

do you think we might say Christ intercedes for us so that we may come to repentance?

 

[psychomom]

I vote for what the Bible presents.

which is what we don't seem to be able to come to agreement on.

 

[Elin]

Is that what DC was saying? Correct me if I am wrong, but I am not so sure he was saying that. I was getting the impression from what he said that they didn't have to stop sinning in order to be saved. That a belief alone was all that is required to be in a saving faith (of which of course as you know I do not agree with).

One does not continue in a sinful lifestyle after one comes to true belief, which gift of faith (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3) God sometimes grants in the midst of one's depravity.

Jesus saves sinners.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Most of them never deal with their own UNKNOWN sins. (The sins we have done but have not yet been convicted of)

They are forced to either,

1. Keep them unknown
2. Hide them
3. Ignore them, and thus be blinded to them.

which turns them to hypocrites, and self righteous people. they look at their spiritual lives as compared to sinners, and not to Gods law. You will see most of them judge certain sins, and say I do not do those things, So I must be righteous, which is why they come off as they do.

 

[Elin]

The Bible is not a book whereby you can quote only a few selected verses that you prefer seeing. There are many verses even by Paul himself that refute OSAS.

• Ephesians 2:2-3 - Paul says in times past the believers at Ephesus walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, which is the same spirit that now works in the children of disobedience: Paul also says to them that they used to have their conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and WERE by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

• 2 Corinthians 7:10 - Godly sorrow over sin leads Christians to repent, which leads to salvation.

• Galatians 5:19-21 - Anyone practicing such sins (the works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.

• Galatians 5:24 - Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

• Galatians 6:7-8 - Don't be deceived: sowing to the flesh reaps corruption, sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.

• 1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.

• 1 Timothy 5:11-15 - Some younger widows are condemned; they cast off their first faith and turned after Satan.

• 1 Timothy 6:3-4 - Paul says that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Christ is proud knowing nothing.

• 1 Timothy 6:9-14 - Greed and love of money drowns men in destruction and perdition; Instead, pursue godliness and lay hold on eternal life (and keep this command without blame).

• Philippians 2:12-16 - Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, holding fast the word of life …
… so that: (1) you may become blameless, and (2) Paul did not labor in vain concerning you.

God does not contradict himself in his word.

Your setting it against itself reveals how much you do not understand.

 

[psychomom]

Jesus saves sinners.

because sinners are all that there are.

faithful God. ♥

 

[Elin]

Sin is unbelief. For whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Sin is doing what to you is doubtful.