Jesus killed the law causing enmity to cease

[Jeff_56]

why are the blind so blind ? ? ?

the 2 don't do away with the 10. if someone keeps the 2, they keep the 10. no exceptions.

nothing at all is hard about that.

 

[Elin]

The difference is the coming of Jesus at the right time to bring His own into the fold. The change is supposed to be us, not His word that will NEVER change. The change is that all mankind have the opportunity to come into His kingdom by simply believing in Him. It came to the Jews first and through Peter's revelation of the sheet from heaven vision with all manner of animals confirms this. That's the difference between the OT and the NT. We are grafted into the true Olive Tree in Christ Jesus by a circumcised heart. (Deuteronomy 10:16, 30:6 Jeremiah 4:4 ) It is for sure a better covenant because salvation is offered to the entire world in Spirit, not physical as it was with ancient Israel. Both OT and NT recognized "faith" as being the foundation of righteousness. Hebrews chapter 11.

The inspired Word is all from an UNCHANGING God. ONE GOD= ONE UNCHANGEABLE WORD.

Agreed. . .God changed (terminated) the sacrifices, but that is not a change in God.

Nor are any of the other changes from the OT to the NT.

No one thinks it is.

You are beating a dead horse.

 

[Elin]

The OT didn't record the life of our Lord as He hadn't come yet. He came to fully teach His commandments and lay down His life for His sheep. That is what the NT does, it fully teaches us about the Lord's commandments and how to obey them from the heart through the Spirit and out of love.

And the epistles?

 

[Elin]

Bad things happen to bad people, and good things happen to the innocent. . . .This isn't necessarily so - just saying.

And I agree our justice and penal system stinks!!!!!

Do you know of a better one on earth anywhere?

 

[Elin]

God is Perfect, the old testament is not, the old testament is the image of the culture and uses of those early people and they accommodated God instructions to their convenience.

Baloney. . .

 

[Elin]

But Israel was made righteous by doing the commandments.

Israel was not righteous. . .no one was righteous (Ro 3:10).

 

[just-me]

We all agree that Israel was rejected by God because they rejected His Torah/instructions/statues/law to follow other gods which is the doctrine of compromise called doctrine of Balaam. God promised blessing if they adhered to those instructions and cursings if they rejected them. Have we ever considered that the false doctrine of "separation of church and state" has been prevalent for years in the United States because we have also followed suit with Israel's failure? I'm not saying that the works of the law is for individual righteousness. I saying it contributes to proper self governing. That is only by faith in the word of God. Our forefathers in this country had that faith and wrote the constitution by that faith for the most part. Much of the principles listed in our constitution were taken from the Bible. Have we become so consumed with making the law void that we have set our country up for the same cursings as Israel in the OT?

"Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:" Romans 2:9-10

Deuteronomy 11:26-28
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
[SUP]27 [/SUP]A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

When we see the tribulation in full swing (and it's very close) think about the comparison between ancient Israel, and modern day America. It will happen because God doesn't change unless we do, and then He will repent of the evil against us because of His grace.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

Actually it is the spiritual whoredom of unbelief, for which there is no forgiveness.

Surely you're not insinuating that repentance is forbidden.

Romans 11:2-4, and 22-24
[SUP]2 [/SUP]God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.


[SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

Ezekiel 37:19-23

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.


2 Chronicles 7:14
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

 

[Elin]

Also before anyone goes into bringing up anything from Paul. This is our Messiah speaking, which to me trumps anything any apostle says, because the word of God is higher than that of man.

Until you understand all Scripture, not just the red letters, is God-breathed and is the word of God, you cannot correctly understand the Bible.

With that said I'm not saying Paul is wrong in his teachings, but
his teachings are hard to understand, Peter even warns us of this.

False. . .

Peter does not warn of Paul's writings, he warns of wrestling them to one's own destruction as they do the other Biblical writings, and as you are doing.

That's why I take my teachings from the Messiah.

That's why you don't understand the Bible. . .and never will as long as you view it that way.

 

[Elin]

This would be where discernment figures into our understanding.

And this would be where Biblical truth figures into our discernment.

 

[Elin]

Prophecy says Israel is not a nation of the past that has forever been forsaken. Paul preaches that we should have the heart to be part of them, and them connected with us. Let us strive for that end which is God's will from the beginning. That's what the New Covenant requires of us.

There is no distinction between Jew and Gentile among those who are in Christ, all are one in Christ and on the same footing with God their Father.

 

[Biblelogic01]

Agreed. . .God changed (terminated) the sacrifices, but that is not a change in God.

Nor are any of the other changes from the OT to the NT.

No one thinks it is.

You are beating a dead horse.

Now this is just a question. I am still researching/studying it. And it's a little off topic.

Acts 18:18
[SUP]18 [/SUP]So Paul still remained a good while. Then he took leave of the brethren and sailed for Syria, and Priscilla and Aquila were with him. He had his hair cut off at Cenchrea, for he had taken a vow.
Acts 21:26
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Then Paul took the men, and the next day, having been purified with them, entered the temple to announce the expiration of the days of purification, at which time an offering should be made for each one of them.


Now there is only 1 vow that requires this. And that is the Nazerite vow. Now Paul not only just completes the Nazerite vow, but he does it with others (not only that, but I believe the people he took the vow with, were gentiles the NKJV states the Jews got made because he brought Greeks into the temple when doing this). Well what is the offering made in the Nazerite vow.

Numbers 6:13-18[SUP]13 [/SUP]‘Now this is the law of the Nazirite: When the days of his separation are fulfilled, he shall be brought to the door of the tabernacle of meeting. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And he shall present his offering to the Lord: one male lamb in its first year without blemish as a burnt offering, one ewe lamb in its first year without blemish as a sin offering, one ram without blemish as a peace offering, [SUP]15 [/SUP]a basket of unleavened bread, cakes of fine flour mixed with oil, unleavened wafers anointed with oil, and their grain offering with their drink offerings.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Then the priest shall bring them before the Lord and offer his sin offering and his burnt offering; [SUP]17 [/SUP]and he shall offer the ram as a sacrifice of a peace offering to the Lord, with the basket of unleavened bread; the priest shall also offer its grain offering and its drink offering. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Then the Nazirite shall shave his consecrated head at the door of the tabernacle of meeting, and shall take the hair from his consecrated head and put it on the fire which is under the sacrifice of the peace offering.

This is clearly after Yeshua's and Paul is giving offerings (along with gentiles, still assuming based off of the following verse). Now according to scripture, these offerings are as sacrifices in the temple.

So where does that come into line with all sacrifices are done away with.



P.S.
I understand there is no temple today, but that's completely different.

 

[Elin]

I follow Torah, but I do not as a means of salvation. I do it as a means of obedience to God and His word. I have stated this in previous posts/threads. There is nothing wrong with Torah observance, but if one who is Torah observant tries to put oneself above others because the others are not, or vise versa, that is wrong on both sides.
Yeshua did not teach against Torah, He
taught Torah.

Actually, he taught only two commandments (Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13: 8, 9, 10) as complete obedience to all the law and the prophets.

 

[Elin]

To add to the prophets part. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they propheci not just His first coming, but His second coming. So, like I've said, because Yeshua has not come a 2nd time, He has not fullfilled the prophecies.

He has fulfilled all prophecy regarding God sending a Messiah.

 

[Elin]

Ok, so let's look at it that way. Fine.

But for Torah to be completely done away with, it also states until earth and heaven have passed away.

No. . .it states that as long as heaven and earth exist, this principle exists--the law will not pass away until it is fulfilled.

That means the only condition for its passing is its fulfillment.

Jesus said he came to fulfill it.
Unless he didn't accomplish his purpose, then it is fulfilled and, therefore, has passed away.

 

[Biblelogic01]

He has fulfilled all prophecy regarding God sending a Messiah.

I agree, He has fullfilled the prophecy of His first coming. The prophets also prophecy about His 2nd coming. Which is what I'm reffering to and stating.

Not all the prophecies are just on His first coming. There are also prophecies of His second coming.

 

[Elin]

Torah/God's law, not mans traditions are for the "lawless" for sure. Those that demand to be absent from Torah are lawless. No one can escape this truth.
Jesus never taught anything that was against His Father's original plan and chronology.

And that original plan and chronology included serious changes--change of the Levitical priesthood, cessation of the animal sacrifices, obsolescence of the old covenant. . .to name a few.

 

[JaumeJ]

Ahh the bliss of blind grace. No responsibility. No rules (law). No obdience. Just constant reward.

All the above sounds like something taught by the enemy.

Believe God, praise God, love Him, and most of all, show some responsibility in your faith and obey Him,. God bless all in Jesus Christ, amen.

 

[Elin]

Call it uprightness if you will.

EQUITYek'-wi-ti:

Is synonymous with "uprightness," which is found in Proverbs 17:26 Isaiah 59:14 Malachi 2:6 in place of the King James Version "equity." Ecclesiastes 2:21 has "skilfulness" and the Revised Version, margin "success" for the King James Version "equity." The context favors this translation of kishron, which is derived from kasher, "to succeed."

Equity is the spirit of the law behind the letter; justice is the application of the spirit of equity; honesty is the general everyday use of justice or fairness, equity being the interior or abstract ideal. The Court of Equity overrides the Court of Common Law, deciding not upon terms, but the spirit of the deed.

"Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it." Deuteronomy 1:17

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:" Acts 10:34

"For there is no respect of persons with God." Romans 2:11

"But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons." Colossians 3:25

"My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons." James 2:1

So you're referring to justice, no partiality. . .

 

[Biblelogic01]

Actually, he taught only two commandments (Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13: 8, 9, 10) as complete obedience to all the law and the prophets.

Ok, so for Yeshua to fullfill the Torah, He had to practice and perfectly follow it (which He did), in Deuteronmy 6 it states that the words of the Lord (the commands that are being given) are to be taught.

Now for Yeshua to fullfill Torah He would have to teach Torah, and not teach against it or just part of it.

 

[Elin]

The people in the wilderness, and in Israel were a set apart people for the work and purposes (as examples for/and) of God.

Paul explains that we are set apart in the same way that Israel was. (We, being grafted in.)
Set Apart defined by Strong's concordance from the above verse:

06395 // hlp // palah // paw-law' //

a primitive root; TWOT - 1772; v

AV - sever 2, separated 1, wonderfully 1, set apart 1, marvellous 1,
put a difference 1; 7

God's people are "set apart" in the OT; i.e., set apart--from sin, and to God.

That is the meaning of "peculiar people."

So in Christ, we are to be examples, set apart, "peculiar," different....Israel was set apart for the same purpose and is a natural representation of what it means to be in the body of Christ.

Yes, it means holiness, sanctification.

As the 23rd Palm says: "We are His people and the sheep of His pasture." (We are grafted in.)

Yet the original principle still stands..."feed my sheep." As Jesus told Peter after HE had risen from the dead, and as Paul also did in his ministry.

Yes, the sheep of God and Christ are those who are born again.

So what exactly do you believe changed in regards to feeding the sheep?

The priesthood changed, the sacrifices ceased, the old covenant was made obsolete, the law was fuilfilled in Christ, who came to fulfill it, and set aside (Heb 7:18-19), they being replaced with the new priesthood in the order of Melchizedek, the once-for-all sacrifice of Christ, the new covenant, the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-40; Gal 6:2; Ro 1:8, 9, 10).

Do you believe that it's the revelation that comes only from Jesus that we are to be ( "feeding"/ sharing) For the building up and edification of the saints, by Christ in us?

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness in light of all of itself.