What was the original purpose for sex?

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collective

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#61
#61
I think if Adam and Eve when they were called" husband and wife"(not friends)" would have enjoyed the pleasure of sex before sin entered the world before they were told by God to" be fruitful and multiply" the bible doesnt need to specify this, because there are more importantant things in genesis that moses the writer was getting across in the creation message
 
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michiru_maeda

Guest
#62
#62
to me sex is for pleasure & procreation :)
 
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Ash_JFF

Guest
#63
#63
I do believe some sexual acts are sinful: annal and oral sex. Those types are unnatural. The penis was never meant to enter the butt or the mouth.(I am not trying to be funny here)

I can't wait to get married: for the intimacy on the emotional level with my husband and on the sexual level.

I am saving myself for my future husband (if its God's will I have one, I hope so!)

I am 21 and still a virgin, so far so good!

Then again, I've never had a boyfriend before so the I've never faced some of the temptations that non married couples are facing.

I can do it, I can do it, just keep going, just keep going...

Watch me die a virgin... haha
Can't we get married during the millennium though? The Bible talks about being able to die during the millennium. (Forgot the reference...somewhere in Revelation I think)
 
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greatkraw

Guest
#64
#64
Ash_JFF said:
I do believe some sexual acts are sinful: annal and oral sex. Those types are unnatural. The penis was never meant to enter the butt or the mouth.(I am not trying to be funny here)

I can't wait to get married: for the intimacy on the emotional level with my husband and on the sexual level.

I am saving myself for my future husband (if its God's will I have one, I hope so!)

I am 21 and still a virgin, so far so good!

Then again, I've never had a boyfriend before so the I've never faced some of the temptations that non married couples are facing.

I can do it, I can do it, just keep going, just keep going...

Watch me die a virgin... haha
Can't we get married during the millennium though? The Bible talks about being able to die during the millennium. (Forgot the reference...somewhere in Revelation I think)
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Ashlee, your only chance to marry and enjoy physical love is in this life and in this body.

In the millenium we will have resurrection bodies of flesh and bone(no blood) - there will be no sex for us.

There will still be mortals in the world and they will marry as usual.

some couples will be married to each other for up to 1000 years:D

one other note

if sex is for procreation then sex post menopause is out

if this is true then both Abraham and Zechariah sinned:D
 
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sword

Guest
#65
#65
Since the original purpose for sex was not recreation but procreation, and since Jesus has set us free from the power of sin, I would infer that Christian married couples have the power to avoid non-procreative sex.
 
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greatkraw

Guest
#66
#66
sword said:
Since the original purpose for sex was not recreation but procreation, and since Jesus has set us free from the power of sin, I would infer that Christian married couples have the power to avoid non-procreative sex.
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so why is this such a big issue for you sword?

you may already have stated your point of view previously:rolleyes:

how many times do you wish to do so?
 
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Graybeard

Guest
#67
#67
sword said:
Since the original purpose for sex was not recreation but procreation, and since Jesus has set us free from the power of sin, I would infer that Christian married couples have the power to avoid non-procreative sex.
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That's your opinion and not biblical. What are you attempting to do?....introduce a new doctrine according to sword??
 
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songster

Guest
#68
#68
sword said:
Since the original purpose for sex was not recreation but procreation, and since Jesus has set us free from the power of sin, I would infer that Christian married couples have the power to avoid non-procreative sex.
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Sword, you know that I agree with you regarding the original purpose for sex, however, attempting to restrict the sexual habits of married couples, is actually taking away from part of their liberty. A liberty which was allowed by God, and which was confirmed by Paul in his letter to the Corinthians.

The purpose of sex may very well have been to produce children, however, after having acknowledged that a 'permission' has been given, any attempt to cause married couples to feel even slightly guilty, would also be an attempt to cast shame and condemnation on married believers.

The purpose for the stomach is to receive and digest food, but eating for both 'nutrition and pleasure' is not sinful, (apart from gluttony). I don't have a weight problem, but I do sometimes eat for the shear enjoyment of taste and snacking. If someone were to tell me that I could not eat unless I was hungry, because the original purpose for eating, was only to satisfy hunger, they would be attempting to limit my liberty in Christ. Remember, 'permission has already been given'. Regardless of the reason why it was given, it was given.
 
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collective

Guest
#69
#69
Are you in a cult that tells you that sex was only for child making, you know what the bible says, if your going to do what you belive in this doctrine just do the deed, dont enjoy it, then do what you want, but at the end when you finish having kids, then no more sex for you olr your wife ,ever, unless she eventually leaves you for defrauding her see how well that goes well in your marraige, Wake up to what the bible says about this and live in the freedom of it.
 
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greatkraw

Guest
#70
#70
there must be a relationship betweeen Swords doctrine and the rythm method

Q What do you call a couple on the Rythm method?

A Parents:D
 
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shad

Guest
#71
#71
sword said:
Since the original purpose for sex was not recreation but procreation, and since Jesus has set us free from the power of sin, I would infer that Christian married couples have the power to avoid non-procreative sex.
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Gen 2:18-25

18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Verse 24 the word 'cleave' doesn't speak of procreate but it does speak of consummate or recreate, because the two become one flesh. I can't find anything any more original than that, can you? According to verse (22) God took the rib of man and 'made' a woman. The word 'made' means that He built the woman to fit the man and the woman was presented and given to the man to be his help meet / verse 18.

Adam, when he saw the woman that God had made for the first time, got excited and with an exclamation said, 'this is the one, bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh'. Another has explained Adam's exclamation as one of great excitement with the expression, WOW, because of the way she was built and Adam immediately cleaved to her with great pleasure and intimacy. She never knew what hit her but she was made just for him. She must of said WOW also and delighted in the exchange because she was meant to fulfill Adam in every way.

Take that any way you want, but I think some sparks were flying and God took great pleasure in what He saw that He had made / Gen 1:31, 2:18. Because He made them male and female and did such a good job creating and building them together and seeing that they were good for each other, He told them to be fruitful and multiple and replenish the earth. In other words, don't stop cleaving because that it what is going to make it all happen. They were not ashamed!
 
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sword

Guest
#72
#72
shad said:
Gen 2:18-25

18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Verse 24 the word 'cleave' doesn't speak of procreate but it does speak of consummate or recreate, because the two become one flesh. I can't find anything any more original than that, can you? According to verse (22) God took the rib of man and 'made' a woman. The word 'made' means that He built the woman to fit the man and the woman was presented and given to the man to be his help meet / verse 18.

Adam, when he saw the woman that God had made for the first time, got excited and with an exclamation said, 'this is the one, bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh'. Another has explained Adam's exclamation as one of great excitement with the expression, WOW, because of the way she was built and Adam immediately cleaved to her with great pleasure and intimacy. She never knew what hit her but she was made just for him. She must of said WOW also and delighted in the exchange because she was meant to fulfill Adam in every way.

Take that any way you want, but I think some sparks were flying and God took great pleasure in what He saw that He had made / Gen 1:31, 2:18. Because He made them male and female and did such a good job creating and building them together and seeing that they were good for each other, He told them to be fruitful and multiple and replenish the earth. In other words, don't stop cleaving because that it what is going to make it all happen. They were not ashamed!
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They were not ashamed because they had not sinned yet. I think the logical next questions are: why was a recreation-sex permission given? Was Paul infallible like Jesus was? Does recreation sex really strengthen a marriage or does it weaken it for its egoistic nature? Is marriage a licence for fornicating? Shouldn`t Christian marriages be hollier than worldly marriages? Why are there so many divorces now?
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
#73
#73
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
I believe that the joy and passion of physical intimacy in prper relationship is a shadow of the spiritual and physical unity experience by first man and first woman. I do not believe that there is any shame in that.
 
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greatkraw

Guest
#74
#74
charisenexcelcis said:
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
I believe that the joy and passion of physical intimacy in prper relationship is a shadow of the spiritual and physical unity experience by first man and first woman. I do not believe that there is any shame in that.
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this is the first recorded speech of a human being and it includes an expletive lol

the hebrew word is ZOTH and can best be translated WOW
 
S

songster

Guest
#75
#75
shad said:
Gen 2:18-25


Verse 24 the word 'cleave' doesn't speak of procreate but it does speak of consummate or recreate, because the two become one flesh. I can't find anything any more original than that, can you? According to verse (22) God took the rib of man and 'made' a woman. The word 'made' means that He built the woman to fit the man and the woman was presented and given to the man to be his help meet / verse 18.

Adam, when he saw the woman that God had made for the first time, got excited and with an exclamation said, 'this is the one, bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh'. Another has explained Adam's exclamation as one of great excitement with the expression, WOW, because of the way she was built and Adam immediately cleaved to her with great pleasure and intimacy. She never knew what hit her but she was made just for him. She must of said WOW also and delighted in the exchange because she was meant to fulfill Adam in every way.

Take that any way you want, but I think some sparks were flying and God took great pleasure in what He saw that He had made / Gen 1:31, 2:18. Because He made them male and female and did such a good job creating and building them together and seeing that they were good for each other, He told them to be fruitful and multiple and replenish the earth. In other words, don't stop cleaving because that it what is going to make it all happen. They were not ashamed!
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This would not be an effective argument for non-procreative sex. While it is common to take certain liberties with the word through explaining, or enhancing it with opinion, in all fairness to the original post, The instruction given in Genesis was clearly to procreate. The fact that a 'pleasure component' exists, or that Adam found the woman desirable, does not constitute a 'purpose' for having intercourse. The only 'purpose' stated is for procreative reasons, in accordance with God's instruction in Gen. 1:28

The instruction to be fruitful and to multiply is, in fact, an instruction to procreate.

Procreation : is to produce, to begat, or to conceive offspring.

Consummate: is a term which means to complete a union by engaging in sexual intercourse, this is also a 'single act', once again, is not in support of modern day non-procreative sex.

Through procreation, consummation is also fulfilled, however, neither of these suggest anything supporting sex solely for pleasure, which is what Sword's original post was trying to say. A post which does have some merit, as it is supported in the Edenic scriptures. The most compelling argument for having sex for both pleasure and procreation, is found in Paul's letter to the Corinthians, instructing the husband and wife not to defraud, or deprive one another.

I am not posting this in opposition to your post, but only to point out that 'cleave' has no meaning pertaining to sexual intercourse, and being fruitful and multiplying is the definition of procreation.

The term 'cleave', according to Paul's use of the word in Mark 10:7, simply means 'to be joined to', 'united with', or 'to adhere to', having no sexual connotation.

Mark 10:7

For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;

In addition, scriptures which state that the man and woman are one, are not referring to a union accomplished through simple sexual intercourse. The union or act of becoming 'One Flesh', is achieved through the marital covenant. In Genesis, in Adam's case, the vows we are accustomed to, which articulate promises associated with this covenant, were expressed in Adam's acknowledgment saying "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh;

Matthew 19:6

So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."
 
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charisenexcelcis

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#76
#76
Songster, I disagree with you. The description of the relationship between man and woman before the fall is not a discription of the allowable, but the perfect. If God is eternal and omniscient, his precepts are not based upon the order in which they are given. So, the fact that procreation is mentioned first in scripture does give it precedence over pleasure, any more than saying that His command to procreate has precedence over His command to love the Lord your God. Also, God designed us to enjoy the earth in general and sex in particular. The fact that sin twists it into something else doesn't impact this, in fact all sin is the twisting of something good, the defiling of it so to speak. The same is true of sex. According to it's design, it was good. Only twisted does it become awful. Remember that we can twist it not only by libertinism, but also by extreme asceticism.
 
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songster

Guest
#77
#77
charisenexcelcis said:
Songster, I disagree with you. The description of the relationship between man and woman before the fall is not a discription of the allowable, but the perfect. If God is eternal and omniscient, his precepts are not based upon the order in which they are given. So, the fact that procreation is mentioned first in scripture does give it precedence over pleasure, any more than saying that His command to procreate has precedence over His command to love the Lord your God. Also, God designed us to enjoy the earth in general and sex in particular. The fact that sin twists it into something else doesn't impact this, in fact all sin is the twisting of something good, the defiling of it so to speak. The same is true of sex. According to it's design, it was good. Only twisted does it become awful. Remember that we can twist it not only by libertinism, but also by extreme asceticism.
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I'm not emphasizing precedence in any way.This is not a matter of assigning precedence to commandments, because there is no command to have sex for pleasure anywhere in the bible, but only 'a permission', in order to avoid fornication. I was clarifying the meaning of the original post, and also mentioning that using the terms, 'cleave', and 'consummation' do nothing to support the idea of non-procreative sex.

I am in no way stating that non-procreative sex is sinful. Paul's letters have clearly made provision for married individuals to have sex at will. I am stating that not only is there a command to procreate, (which is simply an instruction to replenish the earth), but there is also no scripture which indicates that 'sex for pleasure' is in accordance with a purpose, other than purpose, as it pertains to bodily functions and our design.

If you've followed this thread, you will note that my original position was in complete opposition to what Sword had asserted in his commentary, but after reviewing scriptures and allowing God to give me insight, I now believe that sex for pleasure is more aptly designated as being done in accordance with Christian liberty, which was confirmed by Paul, as opposed to being done in obedience to the instruction to be fruitful and multiply, which is the definition of procreation.

I am also realizing that there would be little basis for any argument at all, if contraceptive use, which secures a 'pleasure only' scenario, was not practiced by Christians. I am one who balances what I read, with applicable scripture, making as little assumption as I possibly can, and I remain convinced that God's intent was for individuals to attempt to procreate as often as they wished, however, when contraceptives enter the picture, the only applicable instruction is Paul's letters to the Corinthians, which I consent to whole heartedly, but, Sword's point, regarding being fruitful and multiplying in Genesis 1:28, is correct.

The point at which Sword and I disagree, is when he suggests that modern-day married couples should abstain from sexual activity unless they plan to have a child. I am unsure about my position on contraceptive use or surgeries preventing pregnancy. My Ex- wife had the surgery which prevents pregnancy, but we continued to have an active sex life. I simply haven't found scriptures which clearly allow or disallow contraceptive use, and so, by default, I consider it permissable.
 
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sword

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#78
#78
Certainly the original purpose for sex was not exclusive pleasure but procreation:

Genesis 38

6And Judah took a wife for Er his firstborn, whose name was Tamar.
7And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him.
8And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
9And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. 10And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

I don´t mean masturbators should be killed, but it`s certainly a sin.
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
#79
#79
sword said:
Certainly the original purpose for sex was not exclusive pleasure but procreation:

Genesis 38

6And Judah took a wife for Er his firstborn, whose name was Tamar.
7And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him.
8And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
9And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. 10And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

I don´t mean masturbators should be killed, but it`s certainly a sin.
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I don't think that you can draw that conclusion from this passage. First, he did not mastribate, he practiced coitus interuptus. Secondly, he was judged for refusing to give the widow her rights to a share of the inheritance. The widow needed a male son of the family of Judah in order to secure her portion.
 
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sword

Guest
#80
#80
Jesus also taught that exclusive pleasure or masturbation is a sin:

Matthew 5
27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'[e] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
 
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