Jesus killed the law causing enmity to cease
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Jesus did not say he had another "flock" of sheep.
Sheep are the elect of God, of which he has only one flock; i.e., those who believe in the Promise (i.e., Jesus Christ).
Jesus said he had "other" sheep which he must bring, lead out, to pasture, whom when he has brought them all out, he goes ahead of and they follow him, one flock and one shepherd.
In addition to rejecting parts of the NT, you arrive at your doctrine of two separate flocks (unbelieving
Gentiles were not a "flock" of the people of God), contrary to NT teaching that all in Christ are one,
by much loose handling of the Scriptures, sliding around through them and slipping in what is not there
Abraham's faith is not the "origin" of anyone's faith. One's faith is a gift of God only (Php 1:29;
2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3).
Abraham is the father of those who believe in the Promise (Jesus Christ) through their personal gift of faith from God, not received from Abraham.
If you didn't reject parts of the NT, you would know this.
I pray that the gospel is understood, not in a truncated light, but in the light of the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through all the NT writers.
The enmity/hostility presented in the NT are between Jew and Gentile, and between God and the sinner,
not between mankind and the law.
Joh 10:15
As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Agreed. . .
Jesus did not say he had another "flock" of sheep.
Sheep are the elect of God, of which he has only one flock; i.e., those who believe in the Promise (i.e., Jesus Christ).
Jesus said he had "other" sheep which he must bring, lead out, to pasture, whom when he has brought them all out, he goes ahead of and they follow him, one flock and one shepherd.
In addition to rejecting parts of the NT, you arrive at your doctrine of two separate flocks (unbelieving
Gentiles were not a "flock" of the people of God), contrary to NT teaching that all in Christ are one,
by much loose handling of the Scriptures, sliding around through them and slipping in what is not there.
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I never want anyone to agree with ME........I want no one to dare think God awaits the agreement of His creatures, but believe God, always believe God.
Do not trust in the arm of man, do not trust any flesh, not even your own. Trust God, amen.
I confess there have been times when I may not have agreed with God, but I always believe God. I do not recall any specific time, because even when I petition specifics in prayer, I know if it does not materialize, my prayer has been answered according to God's will and this is paramount in our faith, always trust, believe and have faith in God, amen. God bless all in Jesus Christ,..
Do not trust in the arm of man, do not trust any flesh, not even your own. Trust God, amen.
I confess there have been times when I may not have agreed with God, but I always believe God. I do not recall any specific time, because even when I petition specifics in prayer, I know if it does not materialize, my prayer has been answered according to God's will and this is paramount in our faith, always trust, believe and have faith in God, amen. God bless all in Jesus Christ,..
And we believe God when we believe all of his word in the Scriptures, not using the arm of man or flesh to pick and choose the ones we agree with and rejecting the others.
Amen! That would cure many disagreements, and enhance edification. It's all or nothing.
S
sltaylor
Guest
Absolutely. That is why it is said the first you died and now we live thru the body of Christ, the bread if you will. The first us died, now we live thru Christ and it is this reconciled BODY, the born again one, that we both approach God, remember, no one comes to him except THRU HIM. If you read this next couple of verses very carefully it explains the understanding of the law dying, the hostility and the new body very well.
Ephesians 2:14*For he himself is our peace,*who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,*15*by abolishing in his flesh*the law with its commandments and regulations.*His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,*16*and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross,*by which he put to death their hostility.*
You see the old us, with the law of the flesh was put to death, for it is hostile and contradictory to what God and the spirit desires. The peace that is made is inside us, in the body of Christ, this new born again body, thru which we approach God confidently. Thus we are a new creation thru this process: 2 Corinthians 5: 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ,*he is a new creation;*the old has gone, the new has come!*18*All this is from God,*who reconciled us to himself through Christ*and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:*
Thus born again is a very literal thing for "For through the law I died to the law*so that I might live for God.*I have been crucified with Christ*and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.*The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God,*who loved me*and gave himself for me."
Ephesians 2:14*For he himself is our peace,*who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,*15*by abolishing in his flesh*the law with its commandments and regulations.*His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,*16*and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross,*by which he put to death their hostility.*
You see the old us, with the law of the flesh was put to death, for it is hostile and contradictory to what God and the spirit desires. The peace that is made is inside us, in the body of Christ, this new born again body, thru which we approach God confidently. Thus we are a new creation thru this process: 2 Corinthians 5: 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ,*he is a new creation;*the old has gone, the new has come!*18*All this is from God,*who reconciled us to himself through Christ*and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:*
Thus born again is a very literal thing for "For through the law I died to the law*so that I might live for God.*I have been crucified with Christ*and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.*The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God,*who loved me*and gave himself for me."
The Bible says that Jesus took the physical ordinances of Israel and nailed them to His cross taking them out of the way because they were contrary to us because they had no spiritual impact on people,then states because of that let no man judge you in meats,drinks,sabbath days,new moon,and holy days,which means they cannot tell you to keep them.
But Jesus did not take the 10 commandents out of the way because we always have to obey the moral commandments of God,which are laws to love God and love people.
Paul said we do not void out the law but we establish it,and the law is spiritual,holy,and good,not physical.
The Bible says love is the fulfilling of the law which love does not do evil but good.
The truth is everybody has to live up to the 10 commandents and God's moral laws but nobody could do it in the Old Testament because they did not have the Spirit,but we can in the New Testament because we have the Spirit.
If you are led of the Spirit you cannot sin,which the Bible says a Spirit led life will not fulfill the desires of the flesh.
We always have to obey God's moral laws and goodness which we can do by the Spirit,but we do not have to go by any physical ordinances of Israel anymore.
But Jesus did not take the 10 commandents out of the way because we always have to obey the moral commandments of God,which are laws to love God and love people.
Paul said we do not void out the law but we establish it,and the law is spiritual,holy,and good,not physical.
The Bible says love is the fulfilling of the law which love does not do evil but good.
The truth is everybody has to live up to the 10 commandents and God's moral laws but nobody could do it in the Old Testament because they did not have the Spirit,but we can in the New Testament because we have the Spirit.
If you are led of the Spirit you cannot sin,which the Bible says a Spirit led life will not fulfill the desires of the flesh.
We always have to obey God's moral laws and goodness which we can do by the Spirit,but we do not have to go by any physical ordinances of Israel anymore.
I see no edification coming from rejecting any of the NT word of God.
Edification must at least start with all of God's word, not just what we approve of.
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I agree with you, but I would say "but we do not have to go by any physical ordinances of Israel's physical temple worship anymore", leaving to us instead the obligation of responding (in love) by God's instructions on the law including Exodus 20 thru 23 being written on stone first, and now written on our hearts.
I quote the following a lot in respect to love.
Leviticus 19:11-18
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour; I am the Lord.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.
Deuteronomy 6:1-6
1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the Lord your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That thou mightest fear the Lord thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the Lord God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Notice that these scriptures do not say "ordinances."
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You cannot live a sinful lifestyle, but this side of glory, we will all sin from time to time (1Jn 1:8-10), or God would have made no provision for such when we do.
All well said, except for the one item.
Always keep your own words in mind when reading the posts of others.....and when posting..
I have not rejected Paul at all, but I will take exceptence with any who prefer Paul before Jesus Christ, or who will hear Paul before hearing Jesus Christ. I picked up this attitude from Paul who teaches to be so.
d
I have not rejected Paul at all, but I will take exceptence with any who prefer Paul before Jesus Christ, or who will hear Paul before hearing Jesus Christ. I picked up this attitude from Paul who teaches to be so.
d
Actually, Ex 20
22) thru 2319) were the Book of the Covenant (2Kgs 23:2, 21: Heb 9:19),and Ex 20:2-17 (Ten Commandments), 23:20-33 both were the stipulations of the covenant
The Book of the Covenant (Ex 20:22-23:19) was not written on stone.
The two stone tablets were duplicates of the covenant document, the Ten Commandments.
One copy belonged to each party of the covenant.
Israel's copy was to be laid up in the presence of God, where God's copy was also, so the
duplicate covenant tablets of the Ten Commandments were placed in the Ark of Testimony (Ex 25:21).
The Book of the Covenant (Ex 20:10-23:19) and the stipulations (Ex 23:20-33) were not in the Ark of the Testimony.
In addition, the "Ten Commandments" was used synonymously with "words of the covenant" (Ex 20:1) in the OT (Ex 34:28b).
In Ex 24:7, reading the Book of the Covenant to the people also included reading the Ten Commandments and the stipulations of Ex 20:2-17, 23:20-33, which themselves were not the Book of the Covenant (Ex 20:19-23:19).
So there were:
1) the Ten Commandments, written on stone and in the Ark, two copies of the Decalogue
as the basic stipulation of the Sinai covenant,
2) the Book of the Covenant, neither written on stone nor in the Ark,
3) the other stipulations (Ex 23:20-33), neither written on stone nor in the Ark,
4) the words of the covenant, used synonymously with the Ten Commandments.
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That assumes a disharmony between the revelation of Paul and the revelation of Jesus Christ.
That is you dividing the NT word of God with an arm of flesh.
In the NT, there is no Jesus Christ before Paul, or Paul before Jesus Christ,
for the words of Paul are the words of Jesus Christ.
In addition to separating God's people into two flocks, you likewise separate God's word into
the lesser and the greater.
All Scripture is God-breathed, and carries the authority of God, not just the red letters.
There is no disharmony of Paul and Jesus understood in the light of the whole counsel of God.
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Acts 28:23-24, And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuaded them concerning Jesus, both out of the Law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not. Acts 28:28, Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
During my childhood, and beyond into my adulthood, I often heard the term “two wrongs don't make a right.” This is true, and even more so when we misinterpret scripture to our own liking depending what we have come to believe, what we have heard form the pulpit, and heard from many others who profess faith in Christ Jesus our Lord. In the case which I am ready to present, I first have to admit my error in that I had determined the following scripture to refer to only “temple ordinances,” deemed as belonging only to the Jews i.e. Israel. I was partially right, but this isn't what Paul was referring to, for in Christ, the Priesthood, with its ordinances has not been abolished, but yet rather established in Spirit. On the other side of the equation, it is also an error to say all of God's law (in the Old Testament) has been abolished through Christ which is also a falsehood.
I have recently acquired a transcript, translated into English, from the original Eastern Oriental Aramaic Peshitta text written by Paul to the Ephesians. The focus of these two wrongs is Ephesians 1:15 highlighted in red. First is the King James version, and following second will be from the “Peshitta English Aramaic translation” with explanations of Paul's true intention to the church in Ephesus. In so doing, this will also reveal these two errors previously mentioned.
Ephesians 2:13-18 (KJV)
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Ephesians 2:13-14 from the original Eastern Oriental Aramaic Peshitta.
13 But now, by Y'shua the Mashiyach; you who before were afar off, have been brought near by the blood of the Mashiyach.
14 He is Himself our peace, who has made the two (become) one, and has demolished the wall which stood in the midst, and the enmity, by His flesh;
Arimaic for wall is “syaga.” Ironically, this exact term was picked up by the Talmudic rabbis in “Pirkei Avot” (Sayings of the Fathers) that commanded “make a fence around the Torah.” Y'shua specifically warned against this activity in Matthew chapter 15 rebuking the Pharisees in the process. Later on, Y'shua said he was the “door/gate” using a synonym for “syaga,” known as “taarea,” which is a homonym for “torah” and “teachers,” meaning the Pharisees. So while the Pharisees are busy erecting the fence, Y'shua is pulling it down, allowing everyone access!
I will interject that Jesus plainly said that He was the teacher of Torah the right way so all have access, and not the way the Pharisees taught by restriction. I will post more in the following post so this won't get too long.
Continuing Ephesians 2:15-17 from the original Eastern Oriental Aramaic Peshitta.
15 And in His flesh (the) enmity and regulations of commands (contained) in His commandments are abolished (so) that in Himself (an occurrence of the divine nature, or “qnoma”), He might make the two into one, establishing peace.
16 And has reconciled both with Elohim in one body and has slain the enmity by His stake (of execution).
17 And He came and proclaimed peace to you afar off, and to those near.
18 Because by Him there is access for us both, by one Spirit, to the Father.
Referring to the word abolished. The grammatical structure here fully guarantees that “namusa” is referring to “customs” as in traditions of the Pharisees, not of Torah itself. Mashiyach abolishes the “enmity” (hatred or animosity) that has been brought against YHWH by religious tradition and false interpretation of the Torah., which was a heavy burden that people could not bear. Christian theologians, however, twist this verse and teach that it was YHWH's Torah that brought the hatred and that Mashiyach did away with Torah, which is a very reckless and evil theology. Mashiyach sent the Ruach haKodesh to write YHWH's Torah upon the hearts of people, not abolish it.
“Qnoma” can mean “core substance” or “occurrence.” Although Greek reads “self” Aramaic does not; “self” leads to assumptions of “personhood” which breeds idolatry. This is referring to the actions of Christ, not just what He contained or who He was, but not to exclude what He actually did at Calvary.
15 And in His flesh (the) enmity and regulations of commands (contained) in His commandments are abolished (so) that in Himself (an occurrence of the divine nature, or “qnoma”), He might make the two into one, establishing peace.
16 And has reconciled both with Elohim in one body and has slain the enmity by His stake (of execution).
17 And He came and proclaimed peace to you afar off, and to those near.
18 Because by Him there is access for us both, by one Spirit, to the Father.
Referring to the word abolished. The grammatical structure here fully guarantees that “namusa” is referring to “customs” as in traditions of the Pharisees, not of Torah itself. Mashiyach abolishes the “enmity” (hatred or animosity) that has been brought against YHWH by religious tradition and false interpretation of the Torah., which was a heavy burden that people could not bear. Christian theologians, however, twist this verse and teach that it was YHWH's Torah that brought the hatred and that Mashiyach did away with Torah, which is a very reckless and evil theology. Mashiyach sent the Ruach haKodesh to write YHWH's Torah upon the hearts of people, not abolish it.
“Qnoma” can mean “core substance” or “occurrence.” Although Greek reads “self” Aramaic does not; “self” leads to assumptions of “personhood” which breeds idolatry. This is referring to the actions of Christ, not just what He contained or who He was, but not to exclude what He actually did at Calvary.
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