So if you are not under the Law, does that mean you are in lawelessness?

[kodiak]

Yes, God is love. But his love does not extend to a person in them openly rebelling against Him. If God were to allow that to happen, then the Lord would not be holy because He would be allowing His people to get away with evil. I mean, honestly. This is not a hard concept to grasp. You do evil and you are evil. If you do righteousness, then you are righteous. You shouldn't have to be told that. But the Bible says it, leaving anyone who is trying to justify a sin and still saved doctrine without any excuse. For God will not tolerate any kind of Lawlessness.

so No one can possibly be a Christian? Everyone has sinned, sin is evil, so we all are evil and cannot be forgiven? So it means that it was unholy for Jesus to die for all of us? I thought he washed away our sin, so we are forgiven....

 

[Reborn]

Yes, God is love. But his love does not extend to a person in them openly rebelling against Him. If God were to allow that to happen, then the Lord would not be holy because He would be allowing His people to get away with evil. I mean, honestly. This is not a hard concept to grasp. You do evil and you are evil. If you do righteousness, then you are righteous. You shouldn't have to be told that. But the Bible says it, leaving anyone who is trying to justify a sin and still saved doctrine without any excuse. For God will not tolerate any kind of Lawlessness.

This is not a hard concept to grasp.
You, stir up the forum on a daily basis?
If you upset this many people, ALL OF THE TIME, you should really step back and look at.....



.....YOU.



We're good.
We will be okay without the book of Jason.

 

[just-me]

[

Lawlessness is being without the law. But the law is for the lawless. Being under is the works of the law without faith. If vain faith kicks the law out on purpose, then one is under its condemnation. This truth is inescapable. If true faith is established, so is the law established in the heart of the faithful.

Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

You would consider the fruit of the spirit as lawlessness?

You know the fruit is not formed by your work at the law?

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

We are all under the law until we come to Christ. When we come to Christ it takes faith to stay there.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Works of the law without faith? I don't see that exclusion here. In fact, Galatians 3 specifically says that the law is not of faith.

You are trying too hard to be back under the law. Which would be fine if you were only bringing yourself back under the law. But blind guides tend to lead other blind into the ditch.

If you don't have something you don't have it. I think that's the way it goes. If you haven't got the money it's priceless. If you burn your house your down, your homeless. If you toss the law to the wind your lawless. It's common sense. What is being under the law with the exception of not wanting it to have dictation, because under it is minus faith? People think that faith and law are at opposite ends of the pole even though both are given by ONE God. Why the assumption that causes you to label a person as always wanting to be under the law when I see no condemnation in it because of faith in God? That makes no sense. Faith is what caused Joshua and Caleb to give a positive report when scoping out the promised land. Were they under the law because they had no faith, or were they trusting in God's word that includes the law because of their faith. They saw hope instead of failure because of faith. Just because they esteemed the law of God and His power didn't cause them to be UNDER the law. Come on man. GBU

 

[MarcR]

So if you are not under the Law, does that mean you are in lawelessness?

To be under anything means to be bearing the weight of that thing. The Good News that there is therefore now no condemnation has lifted the weight of the law off our backs.


You may argue that we are still subject to the Law; and in a sense that I will comment on later that may be true.

I am also subject to Jesus, my Lord; but He is not standing on my neck.

Eph 2:10 and Jas 2:14-18 indicate that works of righteousness will indeed follow Salvation. The point of disagreement is 'Whose works?'. You think you get credit for your obedience (if it is real). I think that the Holy Spirit within me gives God credit for my obedience.

Regarding being subject to the Law:

Since we (believers) are in Christ: 2 Co 5:15-21

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
KJV


and He is in us: Col 1:25-27

25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
KJV

we are indeed subject to the moral principles of the Law but not to its penalty. Christ in us has fulfilled the Law on our behalf; and we in Him obey the Law but not of ourselves or to our credit. The Holy Spirit within us provokes and enables us to do His good pleasure.

 

[ember]

So if you are not under the Law, does that mean you are in lawelessness?

I suspect it may mean that to you, but it actually means we are in Christ Jesus who is the fullfillment of the law

That, is because His blood alone atones for our sins and there is absolutely nothing, nada, zip, zero, rien, big goose egg
(phew) and

that we can do to earn salvation

Does that mean we are free to continue to sin?

As Paul said, God forbid

But if we do sin, and we will, as John the beloved Apostle said,

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. I John 1:9

Get over it.

 

[valiant]

So if you are not under the Law, does that mean you are in lawelessness?

To be under the Law is to be in a position whereby one is judged by the Law - and inevitably found guilty.

To be under grace (God's unmerited love and favour towards us) is to be judged by grace in the light of all that God has done for us. It does not mean that we do not seek to please God. For if we are His we will. This is my option.

 

[Blain]

I do not think I am sinless. I have sinned in the past. But I do not sin as a way of life. I also believe it is possible to cease from sin because I have done it. I know what it is like to not be a slave to sin. Now, does that mean I will forever be perfect? Only the Lord knows. But Galatians 5:24 says those that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. 1 Peter 4:1 says those who have suffered in the flesh have ceased from sin. Peter talks about how the false prophets are those who cannot cease from sin (2 Peter 2:1, 14). So you tell me? Is Scripture lying or do you not want Scripture to be true? Are you seeking another interpretation on those verses that goes beyond the plain written meaning to justify a false theology?

Also, many have tried to explain how wrong I am does not mean a spit of beans. In fact, what they believe is the majority church view. But Jesus said it is not the wide gate but the narrow gate that leads unto life. Oh, and no. They did not show me Scripture in it's context. They will ignore the context every time and they will twist the many warning passages to the Believer in the Bible, too.

As for pride and arrogrance: Well, a believer that holds to a sin and still be saved doctrine can't steal something that is from the camp of moralty when they really do not stand for morality or God's goodness. That would be cheating. Morals cannot be used for somebody that does not really support true morality.

If you believe it is possible to not sin and that you no longer sin then you have accomplished what no one has except Jesus. and actually just because you refuse to accept what the scriptures say doesnt mean it was out of context. Did I not say that in debates ppl are shown the scriptures and either totally reject them or say they mean something else?

I abhor sin I hate it and i refuse to allow it to have power over me but I also know no matter how hard I try I will slip up I will mess up but luckily Jesus payed the price and forgives.

 

[sltaylor]

That quote from Jeremiah 31 should begin with v.31. The whole chapter promises yet another covenant between God and the house of Israel and the house of Judah.....in the future millennium. That one is very different from the old, and goes beyond our present New Covenant for Gentiles, in that back then as well as now it is still necessary for men to teach one another, that not everyone knows about God, so still have need of being told. The New Covenant requires Romans 10:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? The New Covenant we have embraced is not what God spoke of through Jeremiah, as that one is specifically for all reunited Israel after the tribulation. By then all on earth will know what God wants them to know.

Reading that chapter (Jer 31) one learns those houses broke the old covenant. It's been divorced from the Jews ever since. Jesus abolished it on the cross, satisfying every demand of the old law. By his life, death, burial and resurrection came the current New Covenant in Christ to the Gentiles, though Jesus was sent to offer it to the house of Judah primarily, and the house of Israel (Samaritans). They rejected it as a nation, though a remnant accepted and populated the New Covenant Church for its first 7 years, taking it to the Gentile world. It has not been held back from Israel or Judah, but they are yet mostly blind to it.

Christians ought not live in fear such that we need to dig up the dead, strap it to our backs, which is what happens when reviving the Old Covenant. The New Covenant contains more commandments of righteousness than the old law, but without the enmity of the old. Murder is sufficiently covered in the New, so no, murderers don't get a free pass. It is better than the old. To take up the old while having the new is like keeping your old rusted 68 Pontiac that won't run, set up on blocks in the garage, while your new Lexus sits outside on the driveway in the rain, hail, and sun. Put the Pontiac in the wrecking yard, lest someone wants to restore it :\

Hebrews 8:6-7 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Christians, stop worrying about what might happen if you abandon the Mosaic Law. It was for the Jews, and remains in print for the purposes of justification of identifying and punishing criminals. In Christ our focus is supposed to be on righteousness, not fearing we are breaking some law imposed upon ancient Israel. Their covenant is broken, not in effect. They are living now on promises of God, to get their new covenant with God later. I suspect that will mirror what Christians live by now, except that their version will keep them separate from the world's Gentile nations, some branded by God as Goat nations due to their abuses of Israel even today, and some Sheep nations that will be partners with future Israel. Demanding Israel to give their land up to the 'Philistines' (Palestinians) will make those nations Goat nations, made to serve Israel as though slaves.

Everyone here, be not a slave to fear or sin. Learn of Christ, live in his righteousness, doing his commandments which are very light burdens, carrying your own light cross for the sake of the gospel.

In that sense I Like Bowhunter2394's post #8 best of this thread.

Why not tie these two verses together and gain understanding.
"This is the covenant*I will make with the house of Israel".... He answered,*"I was sent only for the Lost sheep of Israel."
The new covenant is for us, we are the Lost sheep of Israel.
Christ is the mediator of the new covenant, established by his blood. Every covenant is established by blood. We are not under Mosaic Law or condemnation. But God's law is in my heart and mind and my sins have been forgiven, as the new covenant says. Don't you ever say that covenant isn't for me, your knowledge may be expansive, but your understanding is shallow and completely offensive. Everything in the old testament is fulfilled through Christ. As is this covenant Jeremiah prophesied for the future house of Israel. Jesus said he was sent only for the Lost sheep of Israel. GET IT? ONLY, do not add to that or Take away. If he is here for me and others, then that makes us the FOUND sheep of ISRAEL, THE HEAVENLY ONE, To whom alone this covenant is given. Period.

 

[Blain]

Jason I actually wonder about your intentions for this thread. If you enjoy debating fine but lets be honest you knew how this thread would turn out, threads like these do no good to anyone they only cause trouble and cause strife.

 

[royalscot]

21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose. Galatians 2:

 

[Blain]

21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose. Galatians 2:

Ok Jason I would like your opinion on this was this out of context? Or does it mean something else? if so please explain how

 

[sltaylor]

To whom ever said the new covenant was not from Jeremiah 31 or for us, I would just like to know one thing.... Jesus said no one knows the Father except the Son and those he chooses to reveal him. The new covenant states they will all know me. Therefore, the only people who know God are the chosen elect of the Son, and the only ones who could fulfill the prophecy of Jeremiah saying they will know him. And I didn't say the new covenant was the one from Jeremiah, the book of Hebrews did. When he quotes from Jeremiah and speaks of Christ as the mediator, then that's good enough for me.

 

[VioletReigns]

Man, I just tried to read through all the pages thoroughly but my brain took a detour half-way down the third page. Sorry.

I love you all in the love of Jesus, and some of you I've drawn rather close to since we became friends on CC. ♥ I know we can all get our feathers ruffled at times, but I do believe Jason has a heart for God and is not purposely being antagonistic. I truly believe he's expressing the truth as he sees it, just like we all are. (The exception are those we know who are regular trouble makers on CC who get great enjoyment hammering folks with off-base scriptures like legalistic Pharisees.)

Which brings to mind what is written in 1 Corinthians 9:19-23 -

"For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; To those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it."

So I guess that about covers all of us, right? To consider one another for the sake of Jesus, for the sake of the gospel, for the sake of each other so we can love one another and have more peaceful conversations between us. It's a hard pill for me to swallow because I let my flesh get in the way too often.

Anyhoo.... I'm not trying to derail the thread. Grace to you in Jesus, my friends! Carry on.

 

[royalscot]

To whom ever said the new covenant was not from Jeremiah 31 or for us, I would just like to know one thing.... Jesus said no one knows the Father except the Son and those he chooses to reveal him. The new covenant states they will all know me. Therefore, the only people who know God are the chosen elect of the Son, and the only ones who could fulfill the prophecy of Jeremiah saying they will know him. And I didn't say the new covenant was the one from Jeremiah, the book of Hebrews did. When he quotes from Jeremiah and speaks of Christ as the mediator, then that's good enough for me.

and reveled here also.

6 he says:
"It is too light a thing that you should be my servant
to raise up the tribes of Jacob
and to bring back the preserved of Israel;
I will make you as a light for the nations,
that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth."Isaiah 49


God's Steadfast Love and Compassion
18 Who is a God like you, pardoning iniquity
and passing over transgression
for the remnant of his inheritance?
He does not retain his anger forever,
because he delights in steadfast love.
19 He will again have compassion on us;
he will tread our iniquities underfoot.
You will cast all our sins
into the depths of the sea.
20 You will show faithfulness to Jacob
and steadfast love to Abraham,
as you have sworn to our fathers
from the days of old.Micah 7: Wait for the God of Salvation

 

[crossnote]

Yes, God is love. But his love does not extend to a person in them openly rebelling against Him. If God were to allow that to happen, then the Lord would not be holy because He would be allowing His people to get away with evil. I mean, honestly. This is not a hard concept to grasp. You do evil and you are evil. If you do righteousness, then you are righteous. You shouldn't have to be told that. But the Bible says it, leaving anyone who is trying to justify a sin and still saved doctrine without any excuse. For God will not tolerate any kind of Lawlessness.

Oh I get it. God loved us when we were sinners in sending His Son but now that we are His Children His love becomes conditional.
Perhaps a Roman Review will help here...

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

Oh I get it. God loved us when we were sinners in sending His Son but now that we are His Children His love becomes conditional.
Perhaps a Roman Review will help here...

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The One who Loved you and KNEW You before you knew HIM, now that you 'know' Him, will never Abandon you, nor forsake you, nor Leave you! and HE LOVES YOU!

satan makes Eternal life conditional, on the believer, he will tell them about 'christ', then lead them to believe , it because of them, their righteous works ..... that they are 'kept and Continue in Him, satan is a liar.... he never abode in the Truth, and when he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own, because he is the father of it.. indeed

My Sheep Hear My Voice, and they follow me, a stranger they will not follow! Indeed!

 

[slave]

Lawlessness is being without the law. But the law is for the lawless. Being under is the works of the law without faith. If vain faith kicks the law out on purpose, then one is under its condemnation. This truth is inescapable. If true faith is established, so is the law established in the heart of the faithful.

Excerpts taken from the book “Delegation of Authority Order from God to Christians.”

Man faces unlimited liability; his sins have temporal and eternal consequences, and he cannot at any point escape God.

If we could look anywhere and not be confronted with the revelation of God, then we could not sin in the Biblical sense of the term. (Romans 4:15) Nevertheless, sin is the breaking of the “law of God.” (1 John 3:4) God confronts us everywhere. God cannot confront us anywhere unless He confronts us everywhere. God is ONE! His law is ONE! If we could press a button so we didn't need to hear God's voice, we would always press the same button over and over again. Our button of self consciousness cannot be pushed without hearing the requirement of God.

Those who desire to reverse this say God is liable if He doesn't meet one's expectations. They say that their own experience pronounces that they are saved without any liability, and the magic formula is “I accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior” then the mind of man transfers almost all liability to Christ and can believe any way they desire without almost any liability. The truth is that God cannot be accepted if His sovereignty, His law, and His word are denied.

This distorted form of Christianity seems to have begun around 144 AD with “Marcionism” theology. The distortion of the law (by the tactics of the adversary) was first tried through the hypocritical Pharisees doctrine during Jesus' day. That didn't work, so why not just get rid of it altogether and accomplish the same results? Marcion's teachings departed from traditional Christianity in a number of ways. Most dramatically, perhaps, Marcion rejected the idea that the Old Testament God and the New Testament God were the same being. Up until then, the traditional Church had considered the Old Testament to be sacred and assumed that Christianity was a fulfillment or continuation of Judaism. Today, anti law people resort to name calling such as Judaizer and legalizer and have in actuality adopted most of this Marcion philosophy. Marcion's rejection of that idea affected many different doctrines and beliefs.

Some will quote Ephesians 2:8-9 and say that being saved is not of works but of faith alone. Believe it or not, to deny the law is to accept a works religion, because it means denying God's sovereignty and assuming man's existence in independence of God's total law and government. (Think about what the philosophy of “separation of church and state” has done in the United States. It certainly has not assisted in righteousness, but just the opposite. It's in our face!) In a world where God functions only to remove the liability of hell, and no righteous law governs man, we work our own way through life by our own conscience. We then are saved by our own work of faith, of accepting Christ, not by Christ's sovereign acceptance of us. Christ said “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you.” Christ in such a faith, serves as an insurance agent, as a guarantee against liabilities, not as sovereign Lord. This is paganism in Christ's name.

The world is a battlefield, and there are casualties and wounds in battle, but the battle is the Lord's and its end is victory. To attempt an escape from the battle is to flee from the liabilities of warfare against sinful men ending up by inadvertently declaring war against an angry God. To face the battle is to suffer the penalties of man's wrath and the blessings of God's grace and law.

So what you are saying is that we should fight for victory by sitting with Christ and as He hands us the means to an end provisions, we will battle with self having God next to us hand in hand , successfully loaded to bear with the guaranteed papers, in our back pocket, that we will win this fight we must endure, until the end when victory will then be handed to us in Salvation...am I .Close?.... And in the final tally, war will have it's due for some won't have made it thru...but glory to God to those who fought diligently with Gods favor and who kept the law before them as the tools of war.

If, and I will say that again..IF, that is what you have said, this is not accurately discerned biblically. For we are not to walk in the fight with the Lord.

We are to Sit in Him, and in the victory of His already won battle........ And in the already won battles [plural as well] that we will face each day in our own lives.

Two different issues there...one is overall victory over sin and Satan...This battle has been won on a cross. The devils final notice allowances are quickly coming to a close, For eternity..And Satan himself is aware of it. That's why he is furious with God and man.

The second, there is this so-called battle we have in the living out of our livesto gain our personal battle from Satan's influence and God's influence..This thing called a life.. And it is true, this is a battle, for Satan is here among us to lure us off from the free gift of God. Yet, and this is my point here.....This battle is already won thru Christ, as well, from that same cross.. We need not battle each day as the day unfolds. We wake up each day with a fresh refilling of grace and know our, yet, unknown battle for us is already won, in that God has made it His fight. God will not put in our path anything He has not allowed on our plate to win for that day.

I fear you have taken insult to the fact Jason demerits the law. Yet, I do not see him saying that. He is giving complete credit to the law of God. But no credit to its need to be used in our fight to win anything by us. Jesus didn't say, "And this is the testimony, God has given us eternal life and this life is found in His son, and the laws given to men by Him. He who has the son, and his tools thru the law, has life, He who does not have the son of God, and the laws embedded in their hearts, does not have life.." That's not how it went down.

I have read the holy laws, and I aspire to uphold them, yet I don't even focus on them...at all..My only Focus is on Jesus. I just live my life in Christ, as tight as possible, and I ask him to search me out, know my heart see if there be any wicked in me. Sand learn in wisdom thru Him those laws... Then I listen....If I have had error in my understanding of the laws He shows me then. And I obey Him. In the whole process of that the laws were never it's own entity. They were the result of Christ Jesus...In that order.

You have put the gift before the horse. It is the horse we need to focus on or Christ Jesus. Not the law. The law will come out of the other focus, and will come out indeed.Whether I am focused on the law or not. I am not saying to avoid the law, but not put IT on the mantle, and put it into context of Christ first.

We have victory as we are in Christ, not with Him. And then being in Christ we go merged together out to do good works. If it is not that way, victory is as far from us as the lost and sinful.

We do not walk in order to sit. We must sit before we walk. And we never attack Satan in a fight, we but stand. For the battle was already won with him on that cross too. This, order of things, the World does not understand. But the Christian must.

 

[just-me]

To be obedient to the word of God does not make you legalistic.

God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

AMEN!!
Joshua 24:26 And Joshua wrote these words in the book of the law of God, and took a great stone, and set it up there under an oak, that was by the sanctuary of the Lord.

What does the term “under the law” really mean?

Romans 6:14-15
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

And sin will not have dominion over you; for you are not under law but under grace. What then? Will we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!

Paul is juxtaposing using the observances of former religious rules and practices of Jewish commandments instituted by the rabbis, and binding customs along with the grace that is available in Messiah.
Juxtaposing is to place close together or side by side, especially for comparison or contrast.

Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

But before faith came instructions of the law were guarding us while we were confined from the faith about to be revealed.

In this regard the law (Torah) can be compared with any righteous values a soul voluntarily imposes upon themselves. However as a spiritual relationship is established with God and Christ Jesus, a soul is elevated to much higher levels of spiritual awareness and accountability. Therefore, it is a complete farce when Christians claim to follow the Messiah, but willfully abuse and neglect the instructions in the Law (Torah) according to their denominational authorities. The term “kept under the law” is indicative of popular anti-law theology. Many fail to understand that without the law of God (the Pentateuch), there would be no standard with which to prove Christ Jesus, therefore NO Messiah.

Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

If, then, you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law of false premise.

The idiomatic expression “under the law” refers to a false teaching that has never been true. The Dead Sea Scrolls confirm that this phrase “under the law” refers to strict religious Jewish commandments instituted by the rabbis, and binding customs, not obedience to God's law itself. Torah has not at any time saved anyone! God saves when His people demonstrate a sincere obedience to His righteous instruction. Blind ritual (or religion) alone without the love of God profits nothing. God is “the Spirit” of the Renewed Covenant that writes the law upon our heart.

Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

If, therefore, perfection had been by means of the priesthood of the Levities in which the law was imposed upon people, why was another priest required who should stand up after the likeness of Melchizedek?

Here is the key that sets the context for Hebrews 8:13. Throughout chapter 7, it is the “instruction” of the Levitical priests officiating the Temple ordinances that are being discussed, pointing towards Abraham submitting his sons to be in the line of Melchizedek, by tithing to him in advance. What happens is a switching of priestly modalities within the instructions of the law where the priestly model in Exodus gives way to its predecessor from Genesis, in accordance with all the prophesies in the Old Testament. Again, pagan tradition uses this passage to teach that it is the “Law” that has passed away. Another vital component to understanding this priesthood is that the binding of Isaac at Moriah points to the Melchizedek priesthood, not to the Levitical priesthood. With that, the “binding of Isaac” is fully realized in Messiah, the son of man, the Suffering Servant who is Jesus.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

But an axe murderer does not love in truth so that doesn't establish the law,but grace is not about you owe me but we love GOD because he first loved us.

All the law is summed up in one word...love.
If you love GOD you will be obedient to the two commandments and if you love your neighbor you will have his best interest at heart.

So let's credit John for that wonderful teaching in 1 John. Christians, especially Gentiles in Christ, should relate to John's references to words of Jesus.

1 John 2:7-11 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

That is far superior to the stark verse chiseled in stone, under the old covenant. The whole chapter ought to be read now to bring his OP into full view, that is STOP SINNING. 1 John 2:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

But if and when you do sin, there's a way to fix that. Jesus taught to repent. Repent means to find out that what you are doing that separates you from God must simply be stopped. If repenting, then Jesus our Advocate (Supreme Defense Attorney appointed by none other than Father God) stands for us before the Father, citing our turning away from that sin (repentance) unto his righteousness, thereby requiring forgiveness of yet another sin POST CALVARY, by reason of JESUS BLOOD.

But if a sinner chooses rather to prefer a worldly D.A. (Humanism, claimed genetic predisposition, ignorance of morality, mental illness due to a life of sin, etc.), the sin case will have to be worthy of even a hearing based upon something greater than Jesus' blood. That's a case where I believe "luck" is a valid though hopeless thought stacked against an habitual sinner.

So it is that under the Old Covenant and under the New Covenant, a sinner is not awarded a blank spiritual check to fill in covering whatever he or she does day to day. Sin remained of primary concern to God, and ought to be so with His children.

If that sounds unlike your doctrine, then I'll ask what you think of Peter's inspired word in 2 Peter 1:2-11 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Peter was hand selected by Jesus, so ya better listen to him. Jesus is indeed well able to keep you from falling, but if you sleep in while he and some disciples get up and follow him early morning, you are not with him that day. It matters not that you might pull the blanket over your head and say "Lord, I'll follow later.". How ya gonna figure out where he went?

James 2:19 (KJV) [SUP]19 [/SUP] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

So if you are OSAS, how are you different from the devils? How do you KNOW? Will those devils not notice living in unrepented, unforgiven sins? Do you realize they will be at your trial before the Lord one day, eye witnesses, accusing you of deliberate, habitual sins like theirs? Will Jesus' blood cover those? If so, how could that deal with repeated sin after knowing it is sin, while John will be there too testifying to the Word commanding NOT to SIN?

How many unconfessed sins will be on your account that wasn't entirely washed clean? How else can Jesus represent you unto an acquittal?

 

[atwhatcost]

So if you are not under the Law, does that mean you are in lawelessness?

No, it means I'm under Jesus(ness.) I could never do the law. Even if I could, I never wanted to do the law. When Jesus zapped me (brought me to new life), suddenly I wanted to, but still cannot. He could. He did. He does. He took on my sentence to give me over to his ability to work that same law in me.

So, nope, not lawlessness. Jesus within me.