Salvation Not Possible Without Works

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Mar 28, 2014
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So do you believe Moses have the right to issue his law?
I am not sure what you mean...
To my knowledge, Moses is doesn't have the right to issue his own law. Moses only announce the law of God and Jesus is God.
even Christ referred to it as the law of Moses...
John 7:23
If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

You said work of faith is obedience to Jesus. Can you explain to me why you said so and what verse said so.
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Hebrews 12:2
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Can person obedience to Jesus without abide in Him?
yes one can obey Jesus words and not be abiding in him...I showed you already.....but you cannot be abiding in him and not obey him...
1 John 1:6
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
Matthew 15:9

But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I am not sure what you mean...

even Christ referred to it as the law of Moses...
John 7:23
If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?


Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Hebrews 12:2
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.


yes one can obey Jesus words and not be abiding in him...I showed you already.....but you cannot be abiding in him and not obey him...
1 John 1:6
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
Matthew 15:9

But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
1. When Jesus said law of Moses, is that mean Jesus said Moses have the right to issue the law? Or because Moses announce the law than it call law of Moses?

Can you explain when Moses issue the law and the procedure?

2. You said one can obey the Lord without abide in Jesus.

John 15
[SUP]3[/SUP] Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
[SUP]4[/SUP] Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

Can you explain what is this verse mean?
 
B

BradC

Guest
so if the HS was already in Christ before baptism what was it that descended upon him? and why only after baptism was he taken into the wilderness to be tempted...why only after baptism did he start his ministry?
Why would any of us think that the Son, from conception, did not have the Spirit of His Father who sent him? Was not the Son conceived of the Holy Spirit having no man involved in (Mt 1:20)? Were any of us or any man conceived of the Spirit having no man involved in the conception? John the baptist was filled with the Spirit in the womb but he was conceived through his mother Elisabeth and her husband Zacharias. Filling John in the womb with the Spirit was without any doubt an isolated act of God filled with promise and a calling. The Spirit that descended upon Jesus in a bodily shape like a dove was the same Spirit that Jesus was conceived. This descending of the Spirit from heaven signified the Father's approval that he was well pleased and that he would be the one that John and the disciples of John should hear for he would baptize with the Holy Spirit and with fire after John's ministry would cease.

In (John 20:22) Jesus breathed on the disciples and said to them to receive the Holy Spirit. These same men who received the Holy Spirit before Christ ascended to the Father were gathered together waiting in the upper room for the promise of being endued with power from on high in (Luke 24:49) and all of a sudden there came a sound and mighty rush of wind from heaven (John 3:8). The power of the Spirit (or power from on high Rom 15:19, Luke 4:14) fell upon them with cloven tongues and they were filled with the Spirit speaking in other tongues so that those who had gathered from ever nation could hear in their own language and tongue (Acts 2:1-4). From this we could draw a parallel with Jesus having the Spirit (as did the disciples) and when the Spirit descended out of heaven he was anointed and filled with the Spirit for the ministry that he would have over the next three years.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin said:
Salvation is by faith (through grace) alone, not by works.
The word "alone" is not in Ep 2:8.
A person no longer have God's word when he either adds or takes from it.
And where do you find "works of faith" in regard to repentance and baptism?

In the entire NT, "works" is never used of faith, repentance or baptism.
In the entire NT, "works" means only works of the law.
In the entire NT, there are no other "works" presented in relation to salvation.

"Works of faith" is your notion, not a Biblical notion.

However, faith without any works at all is a Biblical notion.
 
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Jan 19, 2013
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and the word says ( acts 2:38)....those who believe are given the keys to the kingdom...repent and be baptised for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of the HS...born of water and of the Spirit...
but this is what you think...

Works (obedience) of faith are the result of salvation, not the cause of it
(Ac 16:30).
you see my friend you do not believe that one must obey God's word to be saved...
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
And what is Jesus' first command that we must obey--"Repent and believe" (Mk 1:15)--both of
which are gifts of God, and not our own "work" (2Tim 2:25; Ac 11;18, 5:31 /
Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3).

To repeat:
In the entire NT, "works" is never used of faith, repentance or baptism.
In the entire NT, "works" means only works of the law.
In the entire NT, there are no other "works" presented in relation to salvation.

"Works" is your notion, not the Bible's notion, which nowhere indicates they are "works."
 
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Jan 19, 2013
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I never said faith is our work ....I say like James faith without works is dead....it cannot save...
you have works running behind faith....
Of course, because faith is the cause, and works are the effect.

not so....faith and works go together... anything not done in faith is sin...your
works are not an after thought of faith
Agreed. . .effects are not "after thoughts", they are necessary consequences.

your works are works of faith...
faith/(belief) comes by hearing ....you obey what you hear
But you don't obey it until you believe what you hear.

I'm not going to obey anything God says if I don't believe it.

And faith is a gift (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3),
it is not my own "work."

Obedience is the result of faith, not the cause of it.

Hebrews 5:9

And being made perfect, he became the
author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Yes, he is the author of the salvation which always results in obedience.

There was no salvation if there is no obedience,

for obedience is the necessary consequences of faith,

and manifests counterfeit faith if it is not present (Mt 7:21-23),

which has no root of rebirth (Lk 8:13).
 
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Sep 6, 2014
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Ephesians 2:8,9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 4:6,7
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Romans 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Romans 5:17,18
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Phillipians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 8:3,4
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 4:3
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Romans 4:4,5
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 9:31,32
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

John 1:12,13
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Isaiah 45:22
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

Acts 13:39
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Matthew 7:21-23
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

John 10:1
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

John 8:24
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Roman 4:2
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Acts 10:43
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Romans 3:27,28
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Hebrews 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Hebrews 2:3
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

Hebrews 2:9,10
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Hebrews 2:14,15
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Hebrews 2:17
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Hebrews 9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Hebrews 10:10-12
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

Hebrewws 10:17,18
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

2 Corinthians 1:9
But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:

2 Corinthians 1:10
Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;

Ephesians 1:12,13
That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Jeremiah 17:5
Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

Job 25:4
How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

Isaiah 12:2
Indeed, God is my salvation; I will trust Him and not be afraid, for Yah, the LORD, is my strength and my song. He has become my salvation."

Luke 18:9-14
9And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Ezekiel 33:13
When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1 Timothy 2:5,6
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

John 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Matthew 11:28
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Isaiah 53:4-6
Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Hebrews 4:9-10
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Romans 3:20
Therefore, God will not justify any human being by means of the actions prescribed by the Law, for through the Law comes the full knowledge of sin.

Galatians 5:1
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

2 Timothy 1:10
But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

1 John 4:14
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Acts 16:30,31
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Luke 7:49,50
And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? 50And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Ephesians 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Titus 3:7
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Ephesians 4:32
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Ephesians 2:5,6
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Hebrews 7:25
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Romans 3:12
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Eccelesiastes 7:20
For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Romans 4:25
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Romans 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

John 6:28,29
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Matthew 5:20
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 8:8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 3:23-25
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

James 2:10,11
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Romans 5:8,9
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Matthew 18:11
For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

Acts 15:10,11
Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Matthew 19:25,26
When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Romans 10:9-13
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Galatians 1:4
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Galatians 3:21
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Hebrews 9:22
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

1 Timothy 2:6
who gave Himself--a ransom for all, a testimony at the proper time.

Acts 10:43
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Galatians 3:24
The law, then, was our guardian until Christ, so that we could be justified by faith.

Hebrews 9:12-14
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. 13For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

1 Timothy 1:15
This saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance: "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners"--and I am the worst of them.

Hebrews 6:1
Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Ephesians 2:8,9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 4:6,7
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Romans 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Romans 5:17,18
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Phillipians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 8:3,4
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 4:3
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Romans 4:4,5
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 9:31,32
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

John 1:12,13
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Isaiah 45:22
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

Acts 13:39
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Matthew 7:21-23
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

John 10:1
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

John 8:24
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Roman 4:2
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Acts 10:43
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Romans 3:27,28
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Hebrews 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Hebrews 2:3
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

Hebrews 2:9,10
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Hebrews 2:14,15
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Hebrews 2:17
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Hebrews 9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Hebrews 10:10-12
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

Hebrewws 10:17,18
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

2 Corinthians 1:9
But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:

2 Corinthians 1:10
Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;

Ephesians 1:12,13
That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Jeremiah 17:5
Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

Job 25:4
How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

Isaiah 12:2
Indeed, God is my salvation; I will trust Him and not be afraid, for Yah, the LORD, is my strength and my song. He has become my salvation."

Luke 18:9-14
9And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Ezekiel 33:13
When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1 Timothy 2:5,6
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

John 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Matthew 11:28
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Isaiah 53:4-6
Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Hebrews 4:9-10
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Romans 3:20
Therefore, God will not justify any human being by means of the actions prescribed by the Law, for through the Law comes the full knowledge of sin.

Galatians 5:1
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

2 Timothy 1:10
But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

1 John 4:14
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Acts 16:30,31
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Luke 7:49,50
And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? 50And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Ephesians 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Titus 3:7
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Ephesians 4:32
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Ephesians 2:5,6
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Hebrews 7:25
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Romans 3:12
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Eccelesiastes 7:20
For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Romans 4:25
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Romans 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

John 6:28,29
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Matthew 5:20
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 8:8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 3:23-25
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

James 2:10,11
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Romans 5:8,9
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Matthew 18:11
For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

Acts 15:10,11
Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Matthew 19:25,26
When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Romans 10:9-13
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Galatians 1:4
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Galatians 3:21
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Hebrews 9:22
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

1 Timothy 2:6
who gave Himself--a ransom for all, a testimony at the proper time.

Acts 10:43
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Galatians 3:24
The law, then, was our guardian until Christ, so that we could be justified by faith.

Hebrews 9:12-14
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. 13For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

1 Timothy 1:15
This saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance: "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners"--and I am the worst of them.

Hebrews 6:1
Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
Not one of the verses listed above says one can be saved without being obedient to God's will, no one can be saved without doing the work of believing, Jn 8:24; repenting, Lk 13:3,5; confessing, Mt 10:32,33; submitting to baptism, Mk 16:16. Even after one becomes a Christian he must do good works to maintain his salvation, Eph 2:10 else lose it.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Not one of the verses listed above says one can be saved without being obedient to God's will,
no one can be saved without doing the work of believing, Jn 8:24; repenting, Lk 13:3,5,
Wrong. . .

Believing (Php 1:29: 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3) and repenting (2Tim 2:25; Ac 11:18, 5:31) are free gifts of God, not the works of man.

confessing, Mt 10:32,33; submitting to baptism, Mk 16:16. Even after one becomes a Christian
he must do good works to
maintain his salvation
, Eph 2:10 else lose it.
Wrong. . .

Only when something in God's creation is strong enough to snatch the born again from his hand,
or the born again is strong enough to wriggle out of it.

That's a fail. . .salvation by true (not counterfeit) obedient faith which has the root of rebirth (Lk 8:13)
is maintained by God.
 
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WheresEnoch

Guest
People work so hard to prove that their loved ones are abiding in Christ, when they are not.
 
Apr 9, 2015
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People work so hard to prove that their loved ones are abiding in Christ, when they are not.
You and Sea bass need to be regenerated From on High. Your fruit and manifestation of a works salvation tells those Led of the Spirit you both are of the weedy variety.... Indeed. What happens to weeds? Mmmmmmmm Go read the parable of the sower... Until ye are regenerated from on High and and your rebellion forgiven , ye walk in Darkness , and How Great is that darkness .
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Wrong. . .

Believing (Php 1:29: 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3) and repenting (2Tim 2:25; Ac 11:18, 5:31) are free gifts of God, not the works of man.


Wrong. . .

Only when something in God's creation is strong enough to snatch the born again from his hand,
or the born again is strong enough to wriggle out of it.

That's a fail. . .salvation by true (not counterfeit) obedient faith which has the root of rebirth (Lk 8:13)
is maintained by God.

God did not have to save man but because of God's grace He has granted man the opportunity to be saved through belief and repentance. Those men that take advantage of what God has granted to mankind by believing and repenting can be saved.

Eph 2:10 God "BEFORE ORDAINED" Christians walk in good works so one cannot be a Christian and remain saved without doing what God has before ordained Christians are to do. You cannot change the WORKS CHrisians have been preordaiend to do.

Jn 6:27,28 does not contradict Eph 2:10 as you have it.

Two sides to salvation:
1) man's faithfulness to God
2) God's faithfulness to man

Jn 6:27 shows man's faithfulness to God in a continued faithful hearing and following of Christ. Those that MAINTAIN this faithful hearing and following, God in turn is faithful to them by not allowing them to be snatched from His hand. Those that become unfaithful in their hearing and following Christ remove themselves from God's hand..no verse says God must be faithful to save those that become unfaithful to Him.

You are pitting Eph 2:10 against Jn 6:28 causing contradictions among these two verses. If the Christian is not faithful in being a sheep of Christ in doing good works per Eph 2:10 he removes himself from God's hand.

You cannot change the works God "before ordained" Christians are to do with another verse.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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You and Sea bass need to be regenerated From on High. Your fruit and manifestation of a works salvation tells those Led of the Spirit you both are of the weedy variety.... Indeed. What happens to weeds? Mmmmmmmm Go read the parable of the sower... Until ye are regenerated from on High and and your rebellion forgiven , ye walk in Darkness , and How Great is that darkness .

....none of what you posted here is biblical.....


It's going to be an ugly scene on judgment day for all those that put moral culpability, fault and blame upon God.
 
Apr 10, 2015
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For one to become a Christian one must receive Jesus Christ as their Savior. There is nothing else required to become a Christian. In fact Jesus did everything required for the believer to become a Christian. Gods grace is wholly, completely and eternally sufficient to save every soul that comes to Christ.

Your problem remains that you cannot distinguish between what is required to become saved and what the expected result is of said salvation. You are trying unsuccessfully to make the result the causation.

There is absolutely nothing you can do to satisfy God. Christ did everything God demanded. You can receive salvation as a gift or your can reject it and attempt to force God to accept your concept of salvation. How did that work out for Cain and Abel?

1 Corinthians God said that He chose the foolishness of preaching to save those that believe. To those that believe it is the power of God unto salvation to those that perish it is foolishness.

It is expected that anyone professing to know Jesus Christ as Savior will live according to what the bible teaches. No one however has any business telling him if he's doing it the way they think he should or not. Each one must give account to Christ for what they have done since salvation. Give account to Christ not to other "Christians".

Works follow salvation. They cannot precede salvation nor do they have any merit towards salvation. Grace alone is sufficient or we are all lost.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Amen!

God bless
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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It's going to be an ugly scene on judgment day for all those that put moral culpability, fault and blame upon God.
It's going to be an ugly scene on judgment day for all those who put their faith/trust in their works for salvation instead of putting their faith/trust exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation (Matthew 7:22-23; Ephesians 2:8,9).
 
Jan 19, 2013
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God did not have to save man but because of God's grace He has granted man the opportunity to be saved through belief and repentance. Those men that take advantage of what God has granted to mankind by believing and repenting can be saved.
Paul says grace excludes all physical actions of "righteousness."

Justification/righteousness is not based on any "righteous" physical actions, it is a free gift (Ro 5:17)
through the gift of faith (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3).

Sanctification
/righteousness of the justified is the result of their obedience of faith by the enablement of the Holy Spirit.

You do not understand the difference between justification through faith, and sanctification through the obedience of faith.
 
Sep 6, 2014
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Not one of the verses listed above says one can be saved without being obedient to God's will, no one can be saved without doing the work of believing, Jn 8:24; repenting, Lk 13:3,5; confessing, Mt 10:32,33; submitting to baptism, Mk 16:16. Even after one becomes a Christian he must do good works to maintain his salvation, Eph 2:10 else lose it.
John 10:25-30
25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep.
(sebastian you are not among His sheep) :rolleyes:

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me,[SUP]a[/SUP] is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”
(Fellow brothers and sisters you are among His sheep) :)

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
 
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mattp0625

Guest
Does not James 2 and Matthew 25 easily settle the question ?
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Does not James 2 and Matthew 25 easily settle the question ?
James and Matthew are not opposed to Paul.

God does not contradict himself in his word.

Those who see Scriptures as opposed do not have a correct understanding of the them.
 
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mattp0625

Guest
I never said anything about contradiction.