The Sons of God and the Nephilim (Genesis 6:1-4)

[oldhermit]

The Hebrew and Greek languages differ from each other in many ways including syntax and idiom.

Even in Hebrew there is a significant difference between 'sons of God' and 'Son of God'. In Hebrew idiom, 'sons of God' refers to angels; but no individual angel would ever be called a Son of God. The Heberew word malach means messenger; and is used in reference to angels; but also in reference to human messengers: i. e. prophets, pastors, evangelists, and missionaries. The word malach is also used in reference to theophanies (pre-incarnate appearances of Christ). In His pre-incarnate appearances, Jesuis is refered to as (the Angel of God) very distinct fron an angel of God.

Yes, just as the word ἀγγέλου in the Greek means messenger but does not always refer to a spiritual being. As this applies to Jesus in the OT theophanies this refers not to his nature but to his function within the Triadic Unity. He is the messenger of the Triadic Unity. I have never been able to find any scripture where the words ἀγγέλου or malach are ever used in the same sentence with the term "sons of God."

 

[iamsoandso]

from a curious standpoint,,,we cant it seems agree on who they were in Genesis. Instead though in the end do we think the man of sin is actually the devil or his son born into the earth from a woman and grows from a baby to ends up ruling the earth,or will he be just a mean man?

 

[MarcR]

Yes, just as the word ἀγγέλου in the Greek means messenger but does not always refer to a spiritual being. As this applies to Jesus in the OT theophanies this refers not to his nature but to his function within the Triadic Unity. He is the messenger of the Triadic Unity. I have never been able to find any scripture where the words ἀγγέλου or malach are ever used in the same sentence with the term "sons of God."

You will not find any because they do not exist; but that does not determine usage.


Job 1:6
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
KJV


Job 2:1
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.
KJV


Job 38:4-7
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
KJV


Apart from the two occurrences in Gen chapter 6, these are the ONLY other OT occurrences of 'sons of God'.

Clearly they all refer to angels. God is an excellent communicator. When He uses words in a non-standard way; he always gives the reader a 'heads up'. There is no basis to assume that God would change the way He uses an idiom without alerting the reader.

 

[oldhermit]

from a curious standpoint,,,we cant it seems agree on who they were in Genesis. Instead though in the end do we think the man of sin is actually the devil or his son born into the earth from a woman and grows from a baby to ends up ruling the earth,or will he be just a mean man?

Here is the issue with Gen 6. Since the text does not specifically tell us that those 'sons of God' are angels we are left with no alternative but to apply an interpretation to the 'sons of God' so, the question is what interpretation do we assign to the meaning of this term? If we assign angelic beings to this term then we must then find where scripture itself assigns such a definition to this term. We see repeated passages where 'sons of God' is used to describe men as the subject but there is no text that ever defines angels in this way. The only possible passage that may indicate that this refers to angels is Job 38:6-7 but even this is inconclusive. Scripture must ALWAYS be allowed to define its own use of language.

 

[JesusIsAll]

from a curious standpoint,,,we cant it seems agree on who they were in Genesis. Instead though in the end do we think the man of sin is actually the devil or his son born into the earth from a woman and grows from a baby to ends up ruling the earth,or will he be just a mean man?

I believe he will just be a mean man, born as any other man, who the Lord allows to be empowered by Satan. Why? The Lord Jesus opens the seals of Revelation to begin the tribulation, and God knows the day and the hour, only. Satan doesn't know who the Antichrist is, couldn't, as he doesn't know when. In other words, it's not man or devil that bring on the apocalypse, not man or devil operating some plan that finally comes together, despite all the pop culture stuff of a pretense of eschatological truth, the New World Order just about to spring, etc. Nothing happens, until the Lord says so. Until then, since long before Nero, and long after, there have been evil antichrist leaders, who, if allowed full evil empowerment, would, voila, be the Antichrist. God of course knows when and who that man will be, but, to us, and to Satan, he's just another bad man, another bad man of bad men that die and go to hell, as far as the devil knows, until God removes restraint of evil. Then, and only then, can the devil hop to. In other words, the devil could nurture as many vipers as he's allowed, from the womb, as it were, but none will be the Antichrist for his efforts, except on God's time. Satan would have, in any generation, have wanted to enslave the whole world, but he's restrained, until the Lord wills the time of Jacob's trouble.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

I believe he will just be a mean man, born as any other man, who the Lord allows to be empowered by Satan. Why? The Lord Jesus opens the seals of Revelation to begin the tribulation, and God knows the day and the hour, only. Satan doesn't know who the Antichrist is, couldn't, as he doesn't know when. In other words, it's not man or devil that bring on the apocalypse, not man or devil operating some plan that finally comes together, despite all the pop culture stuff of a pretense of eschatological truth, the New World Order just about to spring, etc. Nothing happens, until the Lord says so. Until then, since long before Nero, and long after, there have been evil antichrist leaders, who, if allowed full evil empowerment, would, voila, be the Antichrist. God of course knows when and who that man will be, but, to us, and to Satan, he's just another bad man, another bad man of bad men that die and go to hell, as far as the devil knows, until God removes restraint of evil. Then, and only then, can the devil hop to. In other words, the devil could nurture as many vipers as he's allowed, from the womb, as it were, but none will be the Antichrist for his efforts, except on God's time. Satan would have, in any generation, have wanted to enslave the whole world, but he's restrained, until the Lord wills the time of Jacob's trouble.

You hate it when people argue with you, just to argue with you and call them trolls, but then you say stuff that needs to be corrected, so I am not arguing just to argue. Labeling things as they are not, leads to deception and confusion.

antichrist is a spirit on anyone that does not believe Jesus Christ came in the flesh or that Jesus came from God. The term antichrist is not listed anywhere in the book of Revelation. The term is found only in 1 & 2 John.

The Beast and the false prophet are found in the book of revelation. Both of whom have the spirit of antichrist upon and within them.

If you understand the scriptures then Satan seeks to exalt himself over God and imitates God.

So then you have the satanic trinity found in Revelation:

Satan
Beast
False Prophet

All powered by the demonic counterfeit of the Holy Spirit, which is the spirit of antichrist.

This is why the deception will, if possible, even deceive certain of the elect.

SO I agree wiht you that satan has no idea who the antichrist is, but I am certain he knows who the beast is.


The Beast will not be a a "mean" man in the least bit. He will have a love for you, you cannot contain. His charisma will be overwhelming, he will be dreamy if you will.

You have to put the beast into context with being a counterfeit to the real Jesus Christ people. Oh great now the pre-tribbers will have a nervous break down.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

from a curious standpoint,,,we cant it seems agree on who they were in Genesis. Instead though in the end do we think the man of sin is actually the devil or his son born into the earth from a woman and grows from a baby to ends up ruling the earth,or will he be just a mean man?

the man of sin the last 3.5 years of Daniels 70th week, will be the Living Devil incarnate, habitation in that flesh of the son of perdition.. the Antichrist -------> this coincides with Satan being cast out of all Heavens, no more access to the Throne for Accusation! when he is thrown down here, he is very VERY VERY angry, for he knows that his time is short. you will see the True fruit of the fallen anointed cherub that covereth, thru the man of sin's actions.. GLOBAL WORSHIP, Denouncing the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, breaking peace with Israel. the main fruit is MURDER, those who dont align with him, in his false kingdom, those who refuse to take his mark or badge of approval, the seal, the mark. wont be able to buy or sell... and most like will be martyred . For these are a special group of people, God has Chosen, the Saints that wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb during this time.. 'coming out of the Great Tribulation'.. God already KNOWS who these people are.. indeed, that man of sin comes as a great worker of global peace , espeically with fleshly Israel, they will think its their Messiah, then they will truly find out who he really is 1/2 way Thru Daniels 70th week... an Imposter, the True Christ, Him who they pierced by nailing Him to the tree, will Return at the end of Daniles 70th week in Power and Glory with His Elect Angels and Saints, to put down all rebellion! indeed... the bloodbath at the Valley of Decision, is so big.. it will be measured by the height of a bridel of a horse.. thats how Deep the Blood will flow after Christ , finishes, Treading out the Grapes of Wrath! indeed

 

[JesusIsAll]

You hate it when people argue with you, just to argue with you and call them trolls, but then you say stuff that needs to be corrected, so I am not arguing just to argue. Labeling things as they are not, leads to deception and confusion.

antichrist is a spirit on anyone that does not believe Jesus Christ came in the flesh or that Jesus came from God. The term antichrist is not listed anywhere in the book of Revelation. The term is found only in 1 & 2 John.

The Beast and the false prophet are found in the book of revelation. Both of whom have the spirit of antichrist upon and within them.

If you understand the scriptures then Satan seeks to exalt himself over God and imitates God.

So then you have the satanic trinity found in Revelation:

Satan
Beast
False Prophet

All powered by the demonic counterfeit of the Holy Spirit, which is the spirit of antichrist.

This is why the deception will, if possible, even deceive certain of the elect.

SO I agree wiht you that satan has no idea who the antichrist is, but I am certain he knows who the beast is.


The Beast will not be a a "mean" man in the least bit. He will have a love for you, you cannot contain. His charisma will be overwhelming, he will be dreamy if you will.

You have to put the beast into context with being a counterfeit to the real Jesus Christ people. Oh great now the pre-tribbers will have a nervous break down.

Alright, you can disagree, then, but just this once. You hear?

 

[iamsoandso]

Here is the issue with Gen 6. Since the text does not specifically tell us that those 'sons of God' are angels we are left with no alternative but to apply an interpretation to the 'sons of God' so, the question is what interpretation do we assign to the meaning of this term? If we assign angelic beings to this term then we must then find where scripture itself assigns such a definition to this term. We see repeated passages where 'sons of God' is used to describe men as the subject but there is no text that ever defines angels in this way. The only possible passage that may indicate that this refers to angels is Job 38:6-7 but even this is inconclusive. Scripture must ALWAYS be allowed to define its own use of language.

I suppose I've approached it this way before also,lol,tintin seems real curious about this very subject,that is I notice he several times he post things concerning the issue of Gen.6,me also(my curious nature) which is why I try to read along when someone begins a thread about it. So it makes me wonder "whats the pay off?" I mean would it change the way we would look at other things in scripture if we knew the answer thats why I ask about how we would see the man of sin in the end.

In the letters of Paul he explains that there are mysteries that were kept secret from the beginning some were revealed(Christ in you,Mystery of the kingdom of God ect.),although at the same time there is still the things sealed(kept a mystery) at the end of Danial,mercy seat(we cannot yet speak,ect.), mystery Babylon ect.ect.

I think it's wise to see things scriptural "captive"(comparing whats written with other scriptures,as we are),but at the same time how do we determine "captive from non-captive in scripture"? One will say only the books in the KJV,another will say "well,1 Enoch,apostolic fathers also" others will include A.H. from Irenaeus,and other books still in their definition of "captive books" to see as information to include.

As we know Irenaeus was a hearer of Polycarp,Polycarp a disciple of John. So trying to understand what Irenaeus believed/thought about this subject (to me) is important because he lived so close to the time Rev. was written so there was less percentage of error(less than us 2000 years later). Irenaeus wrote A.H. about ad150-170 so less than 100 years after approx.date of Rev.(ad96). So in the same aspect if this is 2015 then me and you would be able to discuss things that took place in 1915-1925 with a fair degree of accuracy. Even still there are people who are very old but also born in the 1920"s(or their family members) that would have been told about the events during their lives.

Genesis 6 I think is a puzzle,lol,,,as you say all we have to go by today is what we have in the scripture(I agree),,,looking into this from another angle though I'll tell you something I noticed working on my math problem "not only does Irenaeus discuss the things valentinus,potolamaos ect. were doing (incorrect) in A.H. he also is stating the correct manner of approaching it",,,so there in is also a "list of the correct steps to take to reason it" he learned from Polycarp,who learned it from John,but it's a "mystery" which it was not spoken at that time CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.30 (St. Irenaeus)

 

[iamsoandso]

the man of sin the last 3.5 years of Daniels 70th week, will be the Living Devil incarnate, habitation in that flesh of the son of perdition.. the Antichrist -------> this coincides with Satan being cast out of all Heavens, no more access to the Throne for Accusation! when he is thrown down here, he is very VERY VERY angry, for he knows that his time is short. you will see the True fruit of the fallen anointed cherub that covereth, thru the man of sin's actions.. GLOBAL WORSHIP, Denouncing the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, breaking peace with Israel. the main fruit is MURDER, those who dont align with him, in his false kingdom, those who refuse to take his mark or badge of approval, the seal, the mark. wont be able to buy or sell... and most like will be martyred . For these are a special group of people, God has Chosen, the Saints that wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb during this time.. 'coming out of the Great Tribulation'.. God already KNOWS who these people are.. indeed, that man of sin comes as a great worker of global peace , espeically with fleshly Israel, they will think its their Messiah, then they will truly find out who he really is 1/2 way Thru Daniels 70th week... an Imposter, the True Christ, Him who they pierced by nailing Him to the tree, will Return at the end of Daniles 70th week in Power and Glory with His Elect Angels and Saints, to put down all rebellion! indeed... the bloodbath at the Valley of Decision, is so big.. it will be measured by the height of a bridel of a horse.. thats how Deep the Blood will flow after Christ , finishes, Treading out the Grapes of Wrath! indeed

lol,it's what he did in the garden,the serpent went trough the woman to get to the man to get to God. When he said Ye shall NOT SURLY DIE,,,he reaped the seed he sowed,,,he must be born into the earth to die the death he put on Adam,,,

 

[Brainfreeze]

The presentation of one's self before God is precisely what those in the Levitical system did who brought their sacrifices to the altar. God told them that when they brought their gifts to the altar he would meet them their and bless them and forgive their sins. This is indicative of an act of worship. There is no reason that this is not simply referring to the worshipers of God - sons of God who lived in the time of Job. It seems rather obvious that Job is one of these and God points him out to Satan and asks have you considered my servant Job? Would this not seem to better fit the context?

No, I don't think so...why would Job be there? So Job and others " sons " went and met with God with satan to see about the test ? How would it be a test then if he knew all the answers? No this doesn't fit the context, to me anyways... Sons of God, daughters of men ... Pretty specific

 

[Brainfreeze]

You don't? Jesus is the son of God. What's the difference? (I have no idea, but it always seemed to me it does matter somehow.)

Right, different ... " sons " and The Son of God....

 

[iamsoandso]

something I would like to say is that "Job" if we consider the friends in the book and he himself were not of the bloodlines of the "Hebrew led out of exile in Egypt",,,so the law given through Moses is not mentioned in the book of Job.

 

[MarcR]

I suppose I've approached it this way before also,lol,tintin seems real curious about this very subject,that is I notice he several times he post things concerning the issue of Gen.6,me also(my curious nature) which is why I try to read along when someone begins a thread about it. So it makes me wonder "whats the pay off?" I mean would it change the way we would look at other things in scripture if we knew the answer thats why I ask about how we would see the man of sin in the end.

In the letters of Paul he explains that there are mysteries that were kept secret from the beginning some were revealed(Christ in you,Mystery of the kingdom of God ect.),although at the same time there is still the things sealed(kept a mystery) at the end of Danial,mercy seat(we cannot yet speak,ect.), mystery Babylon ect.ect.

I think it's wise to see things scriptural "captive"(comparing whats written with other scriptures,as we are),but at the same time how do we determine "captive from non-captive in scripture"? One will say only the books in the KJV,another will say "well,1 Enoch,apostolic fathers also" others will include A.H. from Irenaeus,and other books still in their definition of "captive books" to see as information to include.

As we know Irenaeus was a hearer of Polycarp,Polycarp a disciple of John. So trying to understand what Irenaeus believed/thought about this subject (to me) is important because he lived so close to the time Rev. was written so there was less percentage of error(less than us 2000 years later). Irenaeus wrote A.H. about ad150-170 so less than 100 years after approx.date of Rev.(ad96). So in the same aspect if this is 2015 then me and you would be able to discuss things that took place in 1915-1925 with a fair degree of accuracy. Even still there are people who are very old but also born in the 1920"s(or their family members) that would have been told about the events during their lives.

Genesis 6 I think is a puzzle,lol,,,as you say all we have to go by today is what we have in the scripture(I agree),,,looking into this from another angle though I'll tell you something I noticed working on my math problem "not only does Irenaeus discuss the things valentinus,potolamaos ect. were doing (incorrect) in A.H. he also is stating the correct manner of approaching it",,,so there in is also a "list of the correct steps to take to reason it" he learned from Polycarp,who learned it from John,but it's a "mystery" which it was not spoken at that time CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.30 (St. Irenaeus)

iamsoandso,

Excellent approach! One thing you may not have considered:

Because Hebrew and Greek words with the same English translation do NOT always have identical meanings; it is necessary to let OT usage interpret OT meaning and NT usage to determine NT meaning.

In the NT 'sons of God' consistently refers to men of faith; while in the OT 'sons of God consistently refers to angels.

It is incorrect to make OT inferences from NT usage or vice versa.

 

[iamsoandso]

iamsoandso,

Excellent approach! One thing you may not have considered:

Because Hebrew and Greek words with the same English translation do NOT always have identical meanings; it is necessary to let OT usage interpret OT meaning and NT usage to determine NT meaning.

In the NT 'sons of God' consistently refers to men of faith; while in the OT 'sons of God consistently refers to angels.

It is incorrect to make OT inferences from NT usage or vice versa.

I agree,the approach to what is captive or non captive separates it's self many times in scripture. In Genesis 5:1 it beginnings "This is book of the generations of Adam",,,yet in Gen. 2:4 "these are the generations of the heavens and of the earth",,,

So we are told the generations of two different things one is the generations of the heavens and of the earth(from beginning to end across time), and the other is the generations of Adam across the times prophesied in the "generations of the heavens and of the earth" Isaiah 46:10

 

[dcontroversal]

"Sons of God" is a term that seems to always applied to men. There does not seem to be any place in scripture where this term is ever applied to angels as many suppose with one possible exception.

So the Sons of God that sang when God cast down the world were men?.............Sorry i ain't buying that one!

 

[Tintin]

Humans could not have been called the Sons of God AFTER the fall. I still believe the passage refers to number 1 or 4. 4 I hadn't heard before and it might make sense.

I have been thinking about this passage as well and I will propose another theory. Virtually the entire Bible deals with the redemption of Adam's progeny AFTER the fall. The command to be fruitful and multiply came BEFORE the fall. I believe it is possible that Adam and Eve had children BEFORE the fall. These could have rightly been called the Sons of God. Why would Adam and Eve wait til the fall to obey the mandate to be fruitful and multiply? How could God have INCREASED Eve's pain in childbirth if she hadn't experienced it before? How long were they in the garden before the fall? If they had children before the fall they probably wouldn't have been cast out of Eden like their parents.
I want to be clear. I am not insisting this theory is true, only presenting it. If it is it from the Holy Spirit and not me.

Any thoughts on this theory?

That's certainly an interesting theory, but I don't think there's any room for such speculation. Cain was Adam and Eve's first child. They would have had him fairly soon after being banished from the garden of Eden (I don't see them delaying on God's command to be fruitful and to multiply. Because of that, I believe Adam and Eve may have been kicked out of the garden rather quickly, by God. Perhaps in a matter of weeks. But that too is speculation. Still, children before the Fall? I don't see the Bible allowing for that interpretation.

 

[iamsoandso]

It's sure interesting to read the many different Ideas all of us have on this subject. Once upon a time as I was reasoning through other topics and wondered "hmm,I think Babylon is X,some say Y,,,I wonder who the apostolic fathers thought it was?". I was using them the same as what we are doing we say "what do you think about Genesis 6?" and then we all give our points of view and the scriptures why we think so. At times we search and find commentaries on different topics and read them and determine if we agree. In the same if we take the letters in the 2nd century and see them as a commentary they do the same.

It's odd the difference between they way they thought back then verses us today. If we look to see if they were a-mill. verses pre-mill. all of the 2nd cent. Church writers seem "pre-mill." but a few, Premillennialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .
If we look through their writings to see who they thought Babylon was they for the most part considered Jerusalem/Israel to be Babylon. Again if we take the same approach to the Giants/fallen Angels ect. they all seem to think that they(the fallen angels) did in fact cross themselves into mankind for the purpose of obtaining "salvation",that is the scriptures speak of a Savior being born into the seed of the woman(Christ) and so if they became kin to mankind would the blood of the cross apply also to them so did they?

Where's the payoff? what did the fallen angels gain if they mingled themselves with mankind,a Savior? We say to all who give their opinions "why do you say that?",and we begin to show scriptures as proof. But we should ask also why would the fallen ones even do that,was it lust,was it to combine themselves into our bloodline because of a reason? Jesus Christ the lord is the lamb slain from the foundation and he as we know was prophesied to be born of virgin birth into the world as the son of God.

So then we also know that the devil has struggled from the begginning to be worshiped "as God",we know he will eventually sit in the temple of God and claim to be God. The devils life is to exactly mimic God,he knows Christ was to be born in the flesh,hence it has been his goal from the beginning to also be born into the world as he knew Christ would. Christ will come with his angels,but before this the devil will come with his and pretend to be Christ. Christ will come and set up the Mill. kingdom,so the devil will come just before him and set up his image of the kingdom. The whole world will run to Christ when he and his angels come,,,but just before that the whole world will rush to the devil(they'll believe he's Christ in his second coming),,,first the man of sin revealed,then Christ in that order,this is the "pay-off" and the reasoning for them/him to be born into the world. This I think will backfire on him,as I said in another post he will come in the end to reap the seed he sowed,death.

 

[Tintin]

The presentation of one's self before God is precisely what those in the Levitical system did who brought their sacrifices to the altar. God told them that when they brought their gifts to the altar he would meet them their and bless them and forgive their sins. This is indicative of an act of worship. There is no reason that this is not simply referring to the worshipers of God - sons of God who lived in the time of Job. It seems rather obvious that Job is one of these and God points him out to Satan and asks have you considered my servant Job? Would this not seem to better fit the context?

Wow. You're so right about that, brother. Why have I always believed Job involved angels, not people in those sections. I was never taught that by my parents. Weird. I'll have to read those sections of Job again, in another light. Mind-blowing.

 

[Tintin]

something I would like to say is that "Job" if we consider the friends in the book and he himself were not of the bloodlines of the "Hebrew led out of exile in Egypt",,,so the law given through Moses is not mentioned in the book of Job.

Very true! So Job would have had to live either around the time of Abram (post-Babel) or at the very latest, between the end of Genesis and the beginning of Exodus, when the Hebrew people were in exile in Egypt.