So if you are not under the Law, does that mean you are in lawelessness?
- Thread starter Jason0047
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
K
Why do you keep using the plural here on unforgivable sin ???
There is only "1" unforgivable sin and that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Now I know there are many ways to do this as in speaking against Him, denying His gifts, and denying His guidance are some of which. But they all deal with the Holy Spirit, as well as lying directly to Him as shown in Acts 5:3-11.
All other sins that a person does as long as they ask forgiveness of it and turn from committing it any longer will be forgiven. Even if a person for example committed a murder back in 98 and then later repented of it and turned their life around and never murdered again, and lived a rightful life according to the gospel by their faith in Christ will be forgiven of that sin as well.
I repeat there is 1 and only 1 unforgivable sin, else wise you would have Jesus being a liar !!!
W
I thought about what you said today and I can see what you are saying. I can say that faith itself is a gift from our Father, as every good and perfect thing comes from Him.
Faith is not our actions. Faith is having confidence in God and knowing that He is who He said He is and that He will do what He said He will do. Faith is knowing that our Father is holy, good, just, true, unchanging, all powerful, all knowing and in control no matter what our circumstances may be or how they may appear.
It is trusting Him above everything else.
We can see the level of our faith and the faith of those around us by our/their words and actions.
Hebrews 11
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2 For by it the people of old received their commendation. 3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.
4 By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks. 5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. 7 By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.
8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God. 11 By faith Sarah herself received power to conceive, even when she was past the age, since she considered him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born descendants as many as the stars of heaven and as many as the innumerable grains of sand by the seashore.
13 These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14 For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. 15 If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.
Faith is not our actions. Faith is having confidence in God and knowing that He is who He said He is and that He will do what He said He will do. Faith is knowing that our Father is holy, good, just, true, unchanging, all powerful, all knowing and in control no matter what our circumstances may be or how they may appear.
It is trusting Him above everything else.
We can see the level of our faith and the faith of those around us by our/their words and actions.
Hebrews 11
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2 For by it the people of old received their commendation. 3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.
4 By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks. 5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. 7 By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.
8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God. 11 By faith Sarah herself received power to conceive, even when she was past the age, since she considered him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born descendants as many as the stars of heaven and as many as the innumerable grains of sand by the seashore.
13 These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14 For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. 15 If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.
Well, I suppose in some cases suicide can be forgiven if the person comes back to life so as to repent of it. But as a general rule, if you commit suicide you cannot repent of such a sin. John says no murderer has eternal life abiding within them. Suicide is self murder. In other words, Jesus' statement is still true because in some cases, a person committing suicide can come back to life and be forgiven. In other words, what I am saying is that most cases suicide is not forgiveable, though. Which is why I said there are unforgivable sins. Also, if you commit the sin of apostasy in denying Jesus Christ as a part of your faith (and have tasted of the Heavenly gifts, etc.), then you cannot come back.
Last edited:
The sin of apostasy cannot be renewed again by repentance.
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; (Heberews 6:4-6).
So in addition to this sin and the sin of suicide (where they do not come back to life), they are not forgiveable sins.
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; (Heberews 6:4-6).
So in addition to this sin and the sin of suicide (where they do not come back to life), they are not forgiveable sins.
Also, please take note that Jesus does not specifically state there is only one unforgivable sin. He merely says all sin and blasphemy can be forgiven (meaning many different kinds of sins), but the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
In other words, it would be like me saying.... all manner of steak houses in Brazil are really good, but the one down the street is not good. That doesn't mean there are not other steak houses that are not bad.
To put it to you another way, Jesus would need to say there is only one sin that cannot be forgiven. But Jesus doesn't say that, though. He merely says many different types of sins can be forgiven and then he mentions that there is one that cannot be forgiven.
For example: We know in Scripture that there is only ONE mediator betweeen God and man. The man Christ Jesus. We know this because the passage specifically says there is only one. Jesus did not say there is only one unforgivable sin. He never says that.
In other words, it would be like me saying.... all manner of steak houses in Brazil are really good, but the one down the street is not good. That doesn't mean there are not other steak houses that are not bad.
To put it to you another way, Jesus would need to say there is only one sin that cannot be forgiven. But Jesus doesn't say that, though. He merely says many different types of sins can be forgiven and then he mentions that there is one that cannot be forgiven.
For example: We know in Scripture that there is only ONE mediator betweeen God and man. The man Christ Jesus. We know this because the passage specifically says there is only one. Jesus did not say there is only one unforgivable sin. He never says that.
Last edited:
Sin is cheating on God because sin is all about the worship of oneself instead of God. So swap the word "sin" in for the words "cheat on our spouse", in what you have said, and it then takes on a whole new dimension of understanding of where the Bible is coming from in regards to the seriousness of sin and the absurdity of what folks are saying.
For example: Let's take what you said here and exchange the word sin for words that relate to cheating on one's spouse.
"It is a fact of the flesh that we will cheat on our spouse now and again but I have yet to see any posts condoning it."
"We do our best to walk in the newness of the rebirth in Christ and understanding gods grace that we are forgiven for out slips of cheating on our spouse."
For example: Let's take what you said here and exchange the word sin for words that relate to cheating on one's spouse.
"It is a fact of the flesh that we will cheat on our spouse now and again but I have yet to see any posts condoning it."
"We do our best to walk in the newness of the rebirth in Christ and understanding gods grace that we are forgiven for out slips of cheating on our spouse."
"If someone accepts their salvation through Jesus Christ (the groom) and goes back to their old ways cheating on their spouse, that doesn't mean they have lost their salvation or right standing with their groom or spouse."
"Our groom or spouse would not be pleased with us by us cheating on them but they would not love us any less, nor would they ever back out on their promise to us."
In other words, people turn "sin" into some kind of fluffy kitten. They don't understand that sin is unfaithfulness and separation from God. For whatever is not of faith is sin. Something is not of the faith is un-faith. Unfaithfulness. Cheating. Going behind God's back. Doing evil. Hating God. Hurting God. Worship of yourself. Loving your own darkness and pleasure of your sin versus loving God. Sin is dark and it is evil and it wrong. For sin put Jesus Christ on the cross. That is how serious "sin" is.
B
Phil, there are many believers, ourselves included, who have had the wrong or immature understanding about many things concerning the church and the doctrine of Christ. We have grown in Christ and have been lead into the truth from our error and from sin. We have been transformed by the word, by faith and through the love of God through the Holy Spirit. We have had struggles with certain things but eventually God has brought us through and given us wisdom and understanding. God has been very patient with us and given us lots of grace just to get to where we are in him. He has never thought evil of us, extended his mercy to us and never stopped loving us.
We are children and we need to be taught continually. There is this denominational thing that has established certain doctrines in the soul that God has to root out and that takes time and lots of grace. I have failed in this area over the years and been very reactionary at times and impatient with other believers who love God. It was rooted in a certain kind of pride that developed through doctrine that I legislated instead of ministering it through grace. It effected people and they reacted and withdrew instead of drawing near to Christ. We are always to win Christ and stand for the truth we have in our heart that is established in grace. Phil, you are a testimony of God's faithfulness.
We are children and we need to be taught continually. There is this denominational thing that has established certain doctrines in the soul that God has to root out and that takes time and lots of grace. I have failed in this area over the years and been very reactionary at times and impatient with other believers who love God. It was rooted in a certain kind of pride that developed through doctrine that I legislated instead of ministering it through grace. It effected people and they reacted and withdrew instead of drawing near to Christ. We are always to win Christ and stand for the truth we have in our heart that is established in grace. Phil, you are a testimony of God's faithfulness.
S
Just because a man is saved he doesn't have the right to go out and do whatever he wants. Paul even stated that he beat his body, so that after all the work he could do, he didn't want to be disqualified for the prize. You can't get saved, then just start acting all crazy and doing whatever everybody else does. We are God's witnesses, the examples. Look at Colossians 3, the rules for holy living. There are things that are improper for God's people to do as his reps. It's like when we were younger and would go to some store with this person who would act all crazy and embarassing, when a stranger would come up you were like, 'I don't know who this crazy person is, that person is embarassing'. It's the same way with God. We are to be his representatives, and when we are all together in heaven he's gonna look at those people cutting up and acting a fool in the same way. He's gonna be thinking 'so THIS was the representation of me in you that you wanted to show to the world, get away from me you fools, I never knew you', those kind of actions were shameful and embarrassing ...hmmmm
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes, Christ in Matthew 7 is going to say to certain believers for them to depart from him because they worked iniquity. Iniquity is sin and or lawlessness. God is good and Holy. He is not going to allow anyone (even if they have a mental acknowledgment that He is their Savior) into Heaven if they think they can sin and still be saved and or if they teach that they cannot stop sinning (i.e. to repent of their sins). For to believe and teach that one cannot stop sinning is to make an excuse for sin to live within one's life still. It is to give into defeat of being conquered by the devil and say that he has won. It is to say that one is a slave to sin. For Jesus says anyone who sins is a slave to sin. Jesus says be ye perfect as my Heavenly Father is perfect. Does that mean you may not stumble? No. But it is not giving into the idea that sin will be your master. For Jesus was manifested to destroy the works of the devil (i.e. sin in your life).
I agree..but, there are no sins that are not forgivable today, except suicide...Kenneth, allow me to clarify.....you have said in other posts in the "unpardonable sin".. threads that ..and I quote you now...."If one chooses to continue to walk in the flesh [give into sinful lusts] without repentance they have grieved the Holy Spirit and committed blasphemy against Him.
This is not accurate to Scripture as I read it. There are no sins, out side of the one, of suicide, left today that God cannot forgive...period. The blasphemy of the Holy Spirit has guidelines starting in Mark that establish how this, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit sin, is committed...Today we do not have opportunity, or the ability to commit that act of sin, based on Scriptures guidelines to being able to commit it:
The list of identifiable trademarks to the sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit are:
1]. We would have to see, physically with our eyes....Jesus.
2]. We would have to witness the Lord doing wonders in our midst...physically.
3]. We would have to know assuredly that this is the Holy Spirit.
4]. In the face of such inner conviction speak nevertheless that this is the work of the demons.
So, biblically we have no sins today, outside of suicide that merit us the availability, or opportunity, to not be forgiven...at all. Just clarifying.
This is not accurate to Scripture as I read it. There are no sins, out side of the one, of suicide, left today that God cannot forgive...period. The blasphemy of the Holy Spirit has guidelines starting in Mark that establish how this, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit sin, is committed...Today we do not have opportunity, or the ability to commit that act of sin, based on Scriptures guidelines to being able to commit it:
The list of identifiable trademarks to the sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit are:
1]. We would have to see, physically with our eyes....Jesus.
2]. We would have to witness the Lord doing wonders in our midst...physically.
3]. We would have to know assuredly that this is the Holy Spirit.
4]. In the face of such inner conviction speak nevertheless that this is the work of the demons.
So, biblically we have no sins today, outside of suicide that merit us the availability, or opportunity, to not be forgiven...at all. Just clarifying.
Last edited:
Now some use the "Term" blasphemy of the Holy Spirit to describe the act of suicide. In that context one can see the confusion to the other application, One must simply see the connection to one, and the specifics to the other. Yet, this is not the description of the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, described in Mark. So, an understanding of the shift of two different truths attaching a same verbal connection is needed.
who was he talking to when giving the parable , would that be the crowd and listeners to his word that day or to the scribes.
would the read be asked, what it means in context to the scribe,
parable or allegory = story to define a spiritual or hidden meaning.
he that has and ear, let him hear etc.
Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit
22 And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying, "He is possessed by Beelzebul," and "by the prince of demons he casts out the demons."23 And he called them to him and said to them in parables, "How can Satan cast out Satan?24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.25 And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand.26 And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but is coming to an end.27 But no one can enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. Then indeed he may plunder his house.
28 "Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter,29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"---30 for they were saying, "He has an unclean spirit." Mark 3
would the read be asked, what it means in context to the scribe,
parable or allegory = story to define a spiritual or hidden meaning.
he that has and ear, let him hear etc.
Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit
22 And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying, "He is possessed by Beelzebul," and "by the prince of demons he casts out the demons."23 And he called them to him and said to them in parables, "How can Satan cast out Satan?24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.25 And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand.26 And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but is coming to an end.27 But no one can enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. Then indeed he may plunder his house.
28 "Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter,29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"---30 for they were saying, "He has an unclean spirit." Mark 3
Last edited:
K
Is suicide classified as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit ???
If not then it can be forgiven as the Lord Jesus said "all sins" except for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will be forgiven. You can not take sins that if not classified as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit as being unforgivable also or you would make Jesus statement in Matthew 12:31 to be false.
Matthew 12:31
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Only what is classified as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit can be considered unforgivable, and a person who commits suicide like I said in some to almost all cases if they believe in God ask either by mouth, letter, or both for forgiveness.
Remember the scriptures says those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of heaven, which means a person who continuously lives their life this way. So do you think a person who commits suicide was always a murderer, or just a person who fell so hard in life they felt no other way out ???
Remember the bible shows that committing those sins one time in a persons life does not condemn them, for if they have repented/confessed of it afterwards they will still receive eternal life just like you and me. So yes a murderer has no eternal life abiding in them, but a murderer is one who continues to commit such a crime without repentance/confession........
If not then it can be forgiven as the Lord Jesus said "all sins" except for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will be forgiven. You can not take sins that if not classified as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit as being unforgivable also or you would make Jesus statement in Matthew 12:31 to be false.
Matthew 12:31
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Only what is classified as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit can be considered unforgivable, and a person who commits suicide like I said in some to almost all cases if they believe in God ask either by mouth, letter, or both for forgiveness.
Remember the scriptures says those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of heaven, which means a person who continuously lives their life this way. So do you think a person who commits suicide was always a murderer, or just a person who fell so hard in life they felt no other way out ???
Remember the bible shows that committing those sins one time in a persons life does not condemn them, for if they have repented/confessed of it afterwards they will still receive eternal life just like you and me. So yes a murderer has no eternal life abiding in them, but a murderer is one who continues to commit such a crime without repentance/confession........
K
Where and how do you come by this as scripture nowhere hints to what you are saying as scripture shows those who continuously practice sin in their life without repentance/confession are not of God. That and the Apostle Paul clearly gives examples of how you can grieve the Holy Spirit and deny Him which I have mentioned in the past.
You say we have no ability to commit blasphemy of the Holy Spirit now days, and gave your numbered list that has nothing to do with rather a person can or can not blasphemy the Holy Spirit. The only way your understanding would even work is if the gifts/miracles do not exist any more which is completely false as they do. Once again I will tell you that a person is not in their right mind that commit suicide, and in most cases it has been said most either right a letter asking for forgiveness.
Do you think God would hold an unrepented sin against a mentally sick person who did not understand what they were doing, or felt they had no other way out ??? Do you believe God knows the heart and would have mercy on the person as the scriptures say ???
Once again if a person who is a believer does commit a sin the Apostle Paul does clearly say that they have grieved the Holy Spirit. The only way to grieve the Holy Spirit by sinning would mean that they have denied His guidance, or do you think a person can continue to live a sinful lifestyle (walking in the flesh) and still have eternal life ???
The bible makes it very clear you can not walk carnally/fleshly/sinfully and have eternal life/salvation both !!!
P
Well, I suppose in some cases suicide can be forgiven if the person comes back to life so as to repent of it. But as a general rule, if you commit suicide you cannot repent of such a sin. John says no murderer has eternal life abiding within them. Suicide is self murder. In other words, Jesus' statement is still true because in some cases, a person committing suicide can come back to life and be forgiven. In other words, what I am saying is that most cases suicide is not forgiveable, though. Which is why I said there are unforgivable sins. Also, if you commit the sin of apostasy in denying Jesus Christ as a part of your faith (and have tasted of the Heavenly gifts, etc.), then you cannot come back.
Nowhere, in the bible, NOWHERE, does it say that suicide is a spiritual death sentence. A sin? Certainly.
Case in point..........When I was just a lad, maybe 9 or 10, I lived in Arab Alabama. My neighbors were a young woman with a couple of kids and and the father worked with my dad at a local garage.
The woman killed herself with a shotgun. My mom found her. I remember the event, and how distraught mom was. I have talked with mother several times about it, most recently a year or two ago.
This woman shot herself sitting on the bed. The shot was to the right side of her chest. She didn't die immediately. She was able to drag herself to the bedroom door and tried to open it. Bloody handprints all over it.
I don't have to tell you what a mess a shotgun can make.
Mom had a couple of old ladies she went to church with that told her that woman went straight to hell. Hurt mom something fierce to even think so.
How long, I ask you, does it take for God to forgive? This woman, simply be her actions after the shot, we can ascertain regretted her decision. She was trying to get help. If she wanted to die in public she would have killed herself in public.
Did she beg God to save her after the shot and before she died? Maybe. Would He have forgiven her?
Only a fool would put themselves in God's position and answer that. Could He? Absolutely! Did He? I don't know, and neither do you.
Suicide is a sin, as it is taking a God given life. If it wasn't the earth wouldn't be here because all christians would commit suicide and God would destroy this orb.
To say that all who commit suicide are in hell is to put oneself in the position that only Christ holds - judgment of another humans eternal destiny.
People like jason are only here to see their name on the computer screen. Look at the number of posts he makes versus his time as a member.
He answers and quotes his own posts. He has a serious "look at me, ain't I great" complex, and he doesn't know or understand the scripture he does read.
This forum is about bible. Period.
Well, as we know in our study of the Scriptures, the word "all" does not always mean "all" in every case or sense. Just do a search on the word "all" in the Bible at BlueLetterBible and you can see that for yourself. Jesus would have to say..... there is ONLY ONE sin that can not be forgiven. But Jesus never says that. Even if you believe suicide can be forgiven of which I disagree with strongly, it should be clear to you in reading Hebrews 6 that the sin of apostacy can never be forgiven. A believer cannot reject Jesus under certain conditions and come back. That is what Hebrews 6 is saying. So that is another unforgivable sin.