So if you are not under the Law, does that mean you are in lawelessness?

Jason0047 · Apr 22, 2015

Here you are saying.... "when I mess up" .... like it is unescapeable (and planned). What makes it worse is that you think you are forgiven of that sin when it does come in time (Which it will according to your beliefs). So you believe in a sin and still be saved doctrine. You believe sin is going to happen at some point in your life and that when it does, you just think it is automatically forgiven. Tell me, how does that concept work in the real world? Does that work well with people you sin or do wrong against today? Why do you think it is different with God? Why do you think God would condone or allow you to get away with evil?

When you cry for someone to forgive you, does that not mean anything to you? What does 1 John 2:1, and 1 John 1:9 say? What about 1 John 1:7?

psalm6819 · Apr 22, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Ever here the expression "don't see the forest for the trees?" I've had my say...I'll leave it to the Holy Spirit to teach and reveal.

He loves you, Jason and won't forsake you-even when you are missing the mark-that's what love does, it never gives up, never gives out, never ever.

Jason0047 · Apr 22, 2015

psalm6819 said:

Well, you need to read the verses I showed you. They will refute what you personally believe about God. Oh, and yes. And I will be praying for you, too.

gb9 · Apr 22, 2015

how about the rest of the verses?? Jason, you just cannot pluck out verses and make a theology out of them and ignore or twist the rest. take Titus 3 all chapter for example. that blows your false teaching up.

psalm6819 · Apr 22, 2015

Jason0047 said:

If you could only grasp the love of God the way you hold so tightly to the law..........

How does that concept work in the real world? well, if I'm trying to be kind to the girl at the gas station I don't have to worry about killing her. If I apologize to someone I've wronged-they see I care. When I go out of my way to help someone and they ask why? it is an opportunity to tell them about Jesus. My behavior reflects His caring.

more effective than "Hey you miserable sinner, You are definitely going to hell..you drink, you smoke, you fornicate,you watch bad shows, you fat so gulity of gluttony, God does not condone your sin and you better make alist cuz if you forget one little sin you loose your salvation, if you don't straighten up quick enough, you loose your salvation, and you have to confess every sin even the sins of unbeleif and worry because whatever is not of faith is sin. and btw God loves you but if you sin...well, He doesn't and if you sin the same sin more than once it can't be forgiven, I think, unless you confess it again, then God will love you until you sin again.....

Jason0047 · Apr 22, 2015

gb9 said:

I do not see you quoting the context of 1 John chapter 1. Why? Because you know that the context does not change the plain meaning of those passages. As for Titus 3:5: I agree 100% with it. We are indeed saved by His mercy and by the washing and renewing of the Holy Ghost. However, this renewal or change in one's spirit is going to cause one to walk in God's good ways as a by-product of having been saved by his mercy and grace. Ezekiel 36:26-27 says God gives us a new spirit and then places His Spirit within us so that we can keep His laws and statutes. So the answer is.... "not you." It is God that does the work in a beleiver. It is God that keeps a believer from falling. But a person has to yield to God (Christ) to begin with, though. God does not force salvation upon people and nor does He drag people about like rag dolls doing His will. A person has to surrender their all to the Lord and repent of their sins. Then God can move within them and do His good work within their lives. That is why we are not saved by works. Because Jesus is the one who works in the believer.

eyesonly · Apr 22, 2015

People, let's not lose sight that we are all on the same side, fighting the same fight and walking in the same light.

We have all accepted Christ as our lord and saviour, and therefore our salvation is secure.

Let's do our best to keep sight of the fine line between discussion of the word and argument of the word.

Because the devil is in the argument of the word, and he is waiting on that fine line and i see he is doing a good job of nudging us ever so slightly to his side without us realizing it.

I would like to say that i believe it is an absolute contradiction to the nature of God to have Christ inside you and still be able to do evil. We are not perfect, never will be, we can never measure up, none of us are worthy of God's love and acceptance, and it is in the understanding of God's ultimate grace for us, that our only wish and goal is to become as like to Christ as we can.

We all slip and we all fall, but the Grace of God will always catch us before we hit the ground, and lift us back up and put us back on our way on his path.

Everyone is given the same measure of faith by God. To tap into that faith, we need to hear the word, and see the word, and then have the word set into our hearts, and then we can tap into that measure of faith given to us as it professes out of our mouths.
How much faith one is showing or feeling that they have will be known to themselves by how much they are hearing and seeing(reading) the word and how much is seeding into their hearts. One person does not have more faith than another rather one person has been able to access more of their given faith than another.

There are no works anymore that are contingent on our salvation, however, if you have Christ inside you, it would be impossible not to do good works, not because we are required to, but because it is a symbiotic necessity of Love, and a bi-product of Faith.

I feel the Lord has guided me to write what i have written here for he loves us more than we can ever imagine.

God bless

Jason0047 · Apr 22, 2015

Well, if one is condoning a sin and still be saved doctrine or they are making excuses for sin in the fact that they cannot stop sinning ever in their life or they believe that unrepentant sin (for the believer) does not lead to spiritual death, then we are not on the same side. There are clearly two different gospels being preached here. One promotes Jesus Christ and His holiness and the other does not.

Reborn · Apr 22, 2015

Three Gospels.

Dont forget your version.

seed_time_harvest · Apr 22, 2015

gb9 said:

When JESUS said be holy like my father in heaven is holy I was thinking the only part of us that is righteous and truly holy is our born again spirit and I know that there is salvation and then if we remain alive and on this earth there is sanctification so when we were reborn our spirits were made perfect so then our spirits would already be holy once we are reborn so then the only part left would be renewing the mind as Paul said so that we can prove that good and perfect will of GOD.

I wanted to like your post but I wasn't absolutely sure if this is what you meant.

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Matthew 5:46-48
king james version

46.)For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47.)And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48.)Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

++++++++++++

Hebrews 12:23
king james version(kjv)

23.)To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

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Ephesians 4:24
king james version(kjv)

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24.)And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Romans 12:1-2
king james version(kjv)

1.)I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2.)And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

kodiak · Apr 22, 2015

Jason0047 said:

A believer has to endure in their faith. If they just accept Jesus and turn back to their old way of living like nothing has ever happened then they have not shown they are the new man and or that they are born again spiritually. 1 John 2:1 says we are to sin not. But if we do sin, we have an advocate that we can go to named Jesus Christ. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sin, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light as he is in the light, then the blood fo Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. So one must continue to walk with the Lord and allow His righteousness to flow thru them. They have to yield to the Lord after having received the free gift of salvation in them repenting of their sins and accepting Him. Nowhere does the Bible teach that a believer can sin on occasion or get away with sin every once and a while. 1 Peter 4:1 says beleivers have ceased from sin by suffering in the flesh. Galatians 5:24 says those that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. The false prophets are identified by Peter by the fact that they did not cease from sin (2 Peter 2:1, 14).

before we go onto believers, lets discuss what I was trying to discuss.....I was talking about the salvation process, not going on to once you have been saved.....lets stick with salvation of the unsaved first, then discuss Christians.....

eyesonly · Apr 22, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Well, if one is condoning a sin and still be saved doctrine or they are making excuses for sin in the fact that they cannot stop sinning ever in their life or they believe that unrepentant sin (for the believer) does not lead to spiritual death, then we are not on the same side. There are clearly two different gospels being preached here. One promotes Jesus Christ and His holiness and the other does not.[/QUOTE

eyesonly · Apr 22, 2015

Jason0047 said:

"Condoning a sin and still be saved doctrine?"

Sorry, never heard of that one and I have yet to see anyone on here post anything of the sort.
It is a fact of the flesh that we will sin now and again but I have yet to see any posts condoning it.
We do our best to walk in the newness of the rebirth in Christ and understanding gods grace that we are forgiven for out slips
out of his unconditional love for us makes us want to try harder every time to not repeat.

If someone accepts their salvation through Jesus Christ and goes back to their old ways, that doesn't mean they have lost their salvation necessarily, it means they are still lost and are in need of guidance from people like ourselves to show them the way back to the path.

If anyone who knows the path and doesn't reach out their hand to help one who is saved but lost or to another who knows not of the salvation through Christ, then what good are we, does that mean we have lost our salvation through selfishness and condemnation of others, no we haven't. God would not be pleased with us but he would not love us any less, not would he ever back out on his promise to us to take us as his adopted children with absolute inheritance to his kingdom soley through the requirement of accepting his son Christ Jesus as our lord and saviour.

God bless

eyesonly · Apr 22, 2015

JASON0047:

I would like to know more about you Jason, if that's ok. When you were saved, were you brought up in the faith, what denomination are/were you, was there any abuse in your life, was it a religious household growing up.

Questions like that if you could answer please and they are meant with the utmost respect sir. I know not who you are or what you've been through, but I would like to know so I can better understand who you are.

Thank you in advance Jason

God bless

phil112 · Apr 22, 2015

eyesonly said:

Aaahhhh, but you are sooo wrong. There are those here that want to go to heaven that aren't willing to concede their error. Those that will swear up and down and all day long that their only desire is to serve God and do His will and won't budge an inch from their heretical doctrine. Those like jason.

The word of God is truth. Truth is immutable. No amount of hand wringing and shedding of tears will change it. You MUST abide by the word or suffer loss.
Your pet doctrine, your pet sin, is going to blemish your robe.

royalscot · Apr 22, 2015

mmm. how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews
14 But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, "If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?"Galatians 2:

25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.
Galatians 3

And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.Galatians 3

eyesonly · Apr 22, 2015

phil112 said:

There are only two sides to choose from that I was talking about, the side of God/Christ and the side of Satan.

Maybe I just assumed we were all on the God/Christ side, maybe we should take a poll to confirm this. Start with me.
God/Christ side and and forever more.

Phil, how bout you, what side?

Bowhunter2394 · Apr 22, 2015

eyesonly said:

------------------------------------------------------

And no Marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an Angel of Light.

Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of Righteousness; whose End shall be according to their Works. 2 Corinthians

Paul was aware and taught by the Master, that there were many who came and would come in the name of Christ, but they were not of God, but imposters, Peter even mentions this... that after his death, there would be grevious wolves that would enter in not sparing the flock, you know the action of a Wolf? he/she circles circles circles, waiting for an opportune time to attack and devour, satan does the same thing.. only he cleverly covers himself up and transforms himself into a an agent of righteousness, but His Elect , those Called and Chosen by the Master, will not be ignorant of it... Today many believe that anybody who claims to follow Christ, is a Genuine Believer.. check the fruit, test the spirits, VERY few do this today... instead they accuse those who do as 'judgmental'.. judge not lest ye be judged..... they are comfortable in just 'getting together in the spirit of love'.. but you dont Sacrifice Truth for the name of unity and love.. thats why you have so much confusion today. and God is NOT the Author of confusion.. but of PEACE...

royalscot · Apr 22, 2015

test the scripture first, acts 2 and acts 10 and acts 15
two different ministries , and two different ways to get the holy spirit. some find there own confusion, because of wrongly dividing scripture.

7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles),

GracethroughfaithinChrist · Apr 22, 2015

Luke 12:31-34
31But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you. 32Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. 33Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth. 34For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

1Peter 5:10
And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.

2 Peter 1:3-11
3His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to[SUP]c[/SUP] his own glory and excellence,[SUP]d[/SUP] 4by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. 5For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue,[SUP]e[/SUP] and virtue with knowledge, 6and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, 7and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8For if these qualities[SUP]f[/SUP] are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins. 10Therefore, brothers,[SUP]g[/SUP] be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. 11For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

So if you are not under the Law, does that mean you are in lawelessness?

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