Are bikinis immodest?

DesiredHaven · May 2, 2015

I gave a breif overview of what I perceived was going on in the thread.

Instead of saying accused, or charged or "slammed with a charge", I just said "slammed with".

And when I said, slammed with, I did so with what you attributed to the context of MarcR's situation (the tempting God)

You felt he was temtping God, I might not see it the same way but I acknowledged that that was what I believed he was slammed with (or accused of) or whichever word you feel better about using.

Why so hung up on a word? You could chose another if it will make you feel better.

I said that because I didnt agree that the yoke of Moses equals googling a bathing suit, since adding the yoke of Moses to the discples necks was considered tempting God.

I might agree that it is unecessarily "tempting yourself" if that is your area of weakness but not God.

I gave an off the cuff quick over view of how I perceived the conversations as I was following them and I said I pointed no fingers at all.

I had openly stated I didnt point any fingers, did you miss that part?

What someone does with a cyber toy means very little to me, I have said that before on other features, I dont think Jesus would give two hoots about an online repping features, (afterall he made himself of no reputation) but thats just how I see them, to others they might mean more (they just dont validate anything to me)

And whether MarcR has a problem with you or not has no bearing on me or the way I might perceive things surrounding the general conversation overall. Why should that matter to me?

False assumptions?

What are you assuming that is a fasle assumption?

Accusations?

Do you have an accusations against me for not agreeing with you while still stating I am not pointing any fingers either?

MarcR · May 2, 2015

phil112 said:

Phil,

The OP question was not about whether immodest clothing was marketed in the USA.

The OP question was: Are bikinis immodest? 10 years ago I would have answered many are but not all.

Before I responded to the thread I wanted to see if my answer had changed in 10 years.

Compared with 10 years ago, now even the most modest of what is called a bikini is immodest.

Had I not checked I would have given an outdated answer. I certainly was not expecting a garment that did not hide ANYTHING.

I lined in San Francisco from 1968 to 2003. In San Francisco, public total nudity was not unusual and it confronted everyone without any need to look for it. Seeing even very pretty girls totally nude never caused me to want to be unfaithful to my wife. At most it caused me to wish I were home. I had no reason to believe that even the worst I might find would tempt me to lust.

I'm certainly not immune to temptation; but nudity has never been an area of weakness to me.

I tend to look at a female body the same way I look at a flower or a sunset. I can acknowledge they are pleasant to look at without feeling any need or desire to take hold.

Ella85 · May 3, 2015

dcontroversal said:

HAHAHAHA Fifty shades of gay.... right down your ally HAHAH

phil112 · May 3, 2015

MarcR said:

I understand Marc, and thanks for clarifying. I am happy you are able to avoid such temptation, as, sadly, it is one i must work at diligently to shun.
While I might disagree that early bikinis weren't immodest, there is no doubt that in the last 20 or 30 years they have literally almost disappeared.
Altho women may not affect you like they do me, simply because some skimpy clothing doesn't bother you is not reason to endorse it.
One thing that so many here, and elsewhere, ignore is the command we have to not set a stumbling block in front of our brother. If you have a glass of wine before bed, and biblically that is fine, would it be okay for you to have that glass in front of a brother that struggles with alcohol? Of course not.
Here is what Paul had to say to us about temptation, and reading this one should come to an understanding of how different each of us is, and how one thing can be easy for one person, yet a struggle for others.

1 Corinthians 7:5-8 "Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.

I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.

But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn."

Emulate Paul and don't allow your freedom to be your brothers' stumbling block, that's all it boils down to.

phil112 · May 3, 2015

dcontroversal said:

Reminded me of this article in the news................
https://www.yahoo.com/makers/50-shades-of-hay-farmer-wont-117882219290.html

VioletReigns · May 3, 2015

Blessed are the poor in spirit [Jesus said] (Mat 5:3):
First of all, Jesus is not talking about physical poverty, poor in spirit. This is in opposition to being proud, and this is always the inevitable consequence of a man coming into a personal, real confrontation with God. If you have come into a true confirmation of God in your own life, the result immediately always is that of poverty of spirit. You see a person who is proud and haughty, he is a man who has not had a true encounter with God.

In Isaiah chapter six, upon the death of the popular king Uzziah, when the throne of Israel has been emptied of this great popular monarch, Isaiah writes, "And in the year that king Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting on the throne, high and lifted up, and his train did fill the temple...Then said I, woe is me! For I am undone; and I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell amongst a people of unclean lips:" (Isaiah 6:1,5). That's always the result of a man seeing God in truth. "Woe is me! I am undone".

Daniel, when he saw the Lord said, "My beauty was turned into corruption" (Daniel 10:8). When Peter had his confrontation he said, "Depart from me; for Lo, I am a sinful man" (Luke 5:8). The man who truly sees God sees himself in truth.

Jesus said we do err because we so often are comparing ourselves with others around us. And when I look at you, I don't look near so bad. When I look at your flaws and your faults I'd be, well, I'm not too bad. Look at them. But when I look at the Lord, that purity, that holiness, that righteousness, I say, Oh, God help me. Woe is me, I'm undone. That is what poverty of spirit is.

It's a true evaluation of myself, not in the light of man but in the light of God, where I see the real truth about me and it brings me to that, oh God help me. I need help. The same thing that Paul said, "Oh wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from this body of death? (Romans 7:24).

So that's always the beginning, the beginning consciousness of a man who has a true relationship with God. But Jesus said, really happy is that man. Why? Because he has had a true encounter with God, and as the result, the kingdom of heaven belongs to him. He's no longer living in just this temporal material realm, but he is now transferred into the kingdom and as a child of God and as a citizen of the eternal kingdom.

Matthew 5
27. You have heard that it was said by them of old time, You should not commit adultery:
28. But I say unto you, That whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29. And if your right eye offends you, pluck it out, and cast it from you: for it is profitable for you that one of your members should perish, and not that your whole body should be cast into hell.

Lust: epithymeō (verb)
1. to turn upon a thing, to be curious about a thing
2. to have a desire for, long for
3. to lust after, covet
4. of those who seek things forbidden

In plain English, this is the route lust takes:
1, I want to just look at it
2. I want to think about it
3. I want to have it
4. I’m going after it

Jesus is not talking literally of plucking out your eye but he is just trying to show to you, because to every one of us, the thought of plucking out our right eye is a very repugnant and repulsive. But Jesus, by this, deliberately speaking of things that are so repugnant to us, is just seeking to show the importance of entering the kingdom of heaven.

In the reality of Jesus Christ, the most important thing for any of us, more important than a whole body, more important than having all the members of my body intact is that I enter into the kingdom of heaven. And I need to have that kind of primary emphasis in my life, the kingdom of heaven is the greatest goal, the greatest desire, and thus should bring into my life the greatest sacrifices. And I should not be concerned with what sacrifice I may make in a temporal way because I am seeking the eternal kingdom of heaven.

Satan played this game with Eve. She lost. Temptation is not a sin. But sin begins with temptation every single time.

VioletReigns · May 3, 2015

James 1:14 Everyone is tempted by his own desires as they lure him away and trap him.

DesiredHaven · May 3, 2015

Jesus says to look upon woman with the intention to lust after her not just looking upon a woman (at all).

Otherwise every christian on this planet which goes to the beach is tempting himself (or God as some might believe) because every man walks after his lusts (to lust after women in his heart) and cannot be walking by the Spirit (having crucified his affections and lusts). If thats the mindset then that is true for those who propose it because that is all they understand in themselves.

Mat 5:28 But I say unto you,
That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her
hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Whosever look on a woman to lust after her

Sin is not to be obeyed inthe lusts thereof

Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body,
that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Gal 5:16 This I say then,
Walk in the Spirit,
and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

There are many lusts, a man should know his own

James 1:14 But every man is tempted,
when he is drawn away of his own lust,
and enticed.

You dont want to make provision for the flesh in these things

Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ,
and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

If you are guilty just for looking at rather then upon one to lust after (as if looking by itself is every man's temptation or sin) every christian that goes to the beach without blindfolds is in the same boat.

But some believe these things, and there are many cults out there with differing perspectives on these things.

As Sirk had brought up some do see it as a sin for men to swim with women and maybe this is of the same sect as that since looking upon one in a bikini (not to lust after her) but just to check something equals something I havent figured out yet.

Naked men do nothing for me, not even if beautiful by the worlds standards, and that used to be a lust I had, and was a weakness at one time, and was the reason for my present marraige. So its not like a lust cannot be crucified, or the walking in the Spirit in the midst of this world does not work, otherwise why tell us to walk by the Spirit and keep us in the world (even allowing the beach for the christian) if its full of sinners (like bikini clad women and men) then?

VioletReigns · May 3, 2015

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

James 1:14. Everyone is tempted by his own desires as they lure him away and trap him. 15. Then desire conceives and gives birth to sin. When sin grows up, it gives birth to death. 16. My dear brothers and sisters, don't be fooled.

Pumicestone · May 3, 2015

People should be legally free to wear as much or as little as they choose - anywhere, anytime.

I would not wander around naked ..... too self-conscious, I guess. And I seriously doubt if many would.
But if 10% of humans did so, particularly on stinking hot days, so be it.
I betcha that after a week, nobody would take any notice - or perhaps only those who believe they have some divine right to judge others.

VioletReigns · May 3, 2015

Pumicestone said:

I have posted scripture. The Lord speaks for Himself. The argument isn't with me. I believe God when he says don't play with fire no matter how innocent it looks.

Have I played with fire? You betcha. Have I got burned? Yes indeedy. Is the Lord correct? Most indubitably!

James 1:14. Everyone is tempted by his own desires as they lure him away and trap him. 15. Then desire conceives and gives birth to sin. When sin grows up, it gives birth to death. 16. My dear brothers and sisters, don't be fooled.

DesiredHaven · May 3, 2015

VioletReigns said:

I believe Jesus words, I included that verse, I believe only cults believe women and men cannot go to the beach together without being guilty of some kind of lust or sin, because that is what it comes down to if to look upon is different then what Jesus Christ said it was (which was to look to lust upon).

I just believe Jesus Christ and all the other apostles

Methinks you diagree with the other scriptures, but thats okay, thats nothing new.

I dont throw stones at MarcR, cant join in there.

valiant · May 3, 2015

Pumicestone said:

People should be legally free to wear as much or as little as they choose - anywhere, anytime.

I would not wander around naked ..... too self-conscious, I guess. And I seriously doubt if many would.
But if 10% of humans did so, particularly on stinking hot days, so be it.
I betcha that after a week, nobody would take any notice - or perhaps only those who believe they have some divine right to judge others.

LOL are you a woman? or have you simply been castrated?

Pumicestone · May 3, 2015

VioletReigns said:

No argument, Violet.
Perhaps you could just point me to the bits where the Lord very clearly states that we must at all times be covered.

And I don't accept the 'irresistable temptation" suggestion.
I reckon in a very short time nobody would take much notice. Now, it's the 'naughty' aspect which makes it so tempting.
A bit like the proverbial apple really.

If the 'temptation' thing were valid, the Muslims would have a point and women would all be in burkas.

VioletReigns · May 3, 2015

James 1:14. Everyone is tempted by his own desires as they lure him away and trap him. 15. Then desire conceives and gives birth to sin. When sin grows up, it gives birth to death. 16. My dear brothers and sisters, don't be fooled.

II Peter 2:22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb: A dog returns to its own vomit, and, "a sow, after washing itself, wallows in the mud."

Let's get real. The flesh never changes because it's impossible. The flesh isn't subject to God, neither can it be. If we think we are immune to the things of our flesh by sheer willpower, we are in error.

Can a person change? Absolutely. But only because the Lord delivers that person. None of us has the power of ourselves to change our flesh. It is Christ crucified, not of ourselves, lest anyone boast ("I am not like those sinners!").

Romans 6:14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law (of your flesh), but under grace.

This is not an attack on anyone in particular. This is the Lord's instruction to all of us to keep us from being devoured by the devil.

If you feel that it's more important to make this into a debate about brother Marc, you are in error. Let's leave Marc out of this. This concerns us all. The point is, we are to help one another look to Christ in every situation.

Pumicestone · May 3, 2015

valiant said:

Neither one, mate. Just civilized - wth a tendency to believe that the nudity novelty would son wear off.

Betcha there aren't too many rapes or molestations in nudist (or naturist?) communities!
And NO - I certainly have never been in one.

VioletReigns · May 3, 2015

Pumicestone said:

Show me where the Lord Jesus Christ tells us not to worry about what people think and just go ahead and parade around naked.

valiant · May 3, 2015

Pumicestone said:

No argument, Violet.
Perhaps you could just point me to the bits where the Lord very clearly states that we must at all times be covered.

And I don't accept the 'irresistable temptation" suggestion.
I reckon in a very short time nobody would take much notice. Now, it's the 'naughty' aspect which makes it so tempting.
A bit like the proverbial apple really.

If the 'temptation' thing were valid, the Muslims would have a point and women would all be in burkas.

LOL you HAVE been castrated.

Pumicestone · May 3, 2015

Sorry Violet, I really can't see anything in any of your chosen texts which seems relevant.

And, I hadn't even READ Marc's post. On doing so, it seems that on this topic at least, we pretty much agree !

valiant · May 3, 2015

Pumicestone said:

how about the world community? why is the western world so full of rape, illicit sex, children born out of wedlock, sexual harassment? much of it is due to skimpy clothing.

Are bikinis immodest?

Are bikinis immodest

yes

no

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