Thoughts on Submisson

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M

MyLighthouse

Guest
#1
#1
I feel the subject of submission is very picky. I really like what JFSurvivor said on it though.

I know for me the idea of marriage in the Bible is just not my idea of what I feel it should be like. I grew up in a different home, with my grandmother caring for my brothers and I. We work as a team in making the house have structure. Still, being the oldest I do house work (like everyone else, but less because of other responsibilities), but my main duty in the household is provider as well as helping with order (discipline) and leadership in the home.

So in marriage I would see myself doing the same thing, with providing and having leadership of the family and my husband at home. Don't worry, I don't plan on ever marrying because of this. I know that's not how God plans it. A women is to submit to her husband's leadership and authority as Christ, blah blah and relieves the husband from further pressures by taking care of the home and children, blah blah.

Yet, why can't it be this way? Until sin came in the world it seems to me Adam and Eve had equal authority. Would not Jesus change this back having redeemed us from sin?

I apologize if this seems respective! Just got me thinking I guess
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#2
#2
Because we are forgiven of sins, but we are not sinless. Adam and Eve had no sin as equals.
 
M

mystikmind

Guest
#3
#3
MyLighthouse said:
I feel the subject of submission is very picky. I really like what JFSurvivor said on it though.

I know for me the idea of marriage in the Bible is just not my idea of what I feel it should be like. I grew up in a different home, with my grandmother caring for my brothers and I. We work as a team in making the house have structure. Still, being the oldest I do house work (like everyone else, but less because of other responsibilities), but my main duty in the household is provider as well as helping with order (discipline) and leadership in the home.

So in marriage I would see myself doing the same thing, with providing and having leadership of the family and my husband at home. Don't worry, I don't plan on ever marrying because of this. I know that's not how God plans it. A women is to submit to her husband's leadership and authority as Christ, blah blah and relieves the husband from further pressures by taking care of the home and children, blah blah.

Yet, why can't it be this way? Until sin came in the world it seems to me Adam and Eve had equal authority. Would not Jesus change this back having redeemed us from sin?

I apologize if this seems respective! Just got me thinking I guess
Click to expand...
I think it is natural to aspire to equality, it is natural, it is just and it is righteous. You will find plenty of Christian men who feel the same, if not, well yes, it's simple, don't marry them!
 
Violet24

Violet24

Senior Member
#4
Apr 14, 2015
1,074
148
63
#4
I know there is most definitely an unhealthy kind of submission in a marriage, but Jesus simply wants there to be unity in a marriage, & unity between a husband & wife is a beautiful thing. Having a dominating husband is simply not what Jesus was referring too.
 
S

soccermom19

Guest
#5
#5
Submitting to your husband does not mean that you can not help provide or discipline. You should help your husband as he should help you. Marriage is a partnership. Back in the day, the woman stayed home and cared for the household. Times change. Now it is necessary, a lot of times, to have two incomes in order to support the family. This can be done but means that the other responsibilities have to be shared as well.
 
Joidevivre

Joidevivre

Senior Member
#6
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
272
83
#6
Is my husband the only one who believes that a husband's role is to put his wife first? To serve her and love her as Christ does. To really be His representative to the wife?

This doesn't mean that this is done perfectly - not at all. We all are only human and our flesh does not always agree with our spirit. Yet, this is my husband's understanding of the role, and most of the time, he is doing a wonderful job of this. This is the role I also take on for myself. And not always done perfectly.

The only thing I add is to let him make the final decisions on things, and support his choices. Even that is subject to change. My husband is 84, and beginning to show signs of dementia - not always wise choices. It seems to be reversed at this point. I'm taking on more of a leadership role. There just can't be any hard and fast rules in a marriage.

We can only take care of each other to the best of our abilities.
 
J

Jeff_56

Banned
#7
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
19
0
#7
there are hard and fast rules in scripture for much of our lives. jesus shows how to live , the scribes and pharisees opposed to him show how not to live.
we must (to live) listen to jesus every day. those who don't listen to jesus can't live, no matter what.

there are several/many 'rules' totally disregarded by most 'christians' in name only. yahweh teaches them also, if they seek him in jesus, the truth and guides their steps ....
 
JFSurvivor

JFSurvivor

Senior Member
#8
Jan 20, 2015
1,184
25
0
#8
MyLighthouse said:
I feel the subject of submission is very picky. I really like what JFSurvivor said on it though.

I know for me the idea of marriage in the Bible is just not my idea of what I feel it should be like. I grew up in a different home, with my grandmother caring for my brothers and I. We work as a team in making the house have structure. Still, being the oldest I do house work (like everyone else, but less because of other responsibilities), but my main duty in the household is provider as well as helping with order (discipline) and leadership in the home.

So in marriage I would see myself doing the same thing, with providing and having leadership of the family and my husband at home. Don't worry, I don't plan on ever marrying because of this. I know that's not how God plans it. A women is to submit to her husband's leadership and authority as Christ, blah blah and relieves the husband from further pressures by taking care of the home and children, blah blah.

Yet, why can't it be this way? Until sin came in the world it seems to me Adam and Eve had equal authority. Would not Jesus change this back having redeemed us from sin?

I apologize if this seems respective! Just got me thinking I guess
Click to expand...
Glad to know someone appreciates my insights. ;-)
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#9
#9
There are three people in a marriage: God, husband and wife.

The leadership is God. Husband and wife are to report to him and do everything for him. He doesn't talk, because he doesn't need to. The corporate handbook is called "The Bible." Them's the rules for the corporation. God not only talked, but had someone record the minutes of those meetings of the minds.

Hubby and wifey communicate, love, and listen. When a decision is made they talk it over, until they're in agreement on the course of action (always keeping corporate rule book as right.) If a decision has to be made, it's put to a vote. If they can't come to agreement, talk it out and try to find another plan they can agree with. If that doesn't work out, remember some decisions are made by making no decision. And, if the decision absolutely must be made, and they cannot agree, God empowers hubby with the tie breaking vote just as much as he empowers hubby with a love for his wife.

In a good marriage, the submitting thingy just ain't that hard. After all, hubby submits to God and loves wifey, so how often do you think it works out that he makes a decision the wifey hates?
 
M

mystikmind

Guest
#10
#10
atwhatcost said:
There are three people in a marriage: God, husband and wife.

The leadership is God. Husband and wife are to report to him and do everything for him. He doesn't talk, because he doesn't need to. The corporate handbook is called "The Bible." Them's the rules for the corporation. God not only talked, but had someone record the minutes of those meetings of the minds.

Hubby and wifey communicate, love, and listen. When a decision is made they talk it over, until they're in agreement on the course of action (always keeping corporate rule book as right.) If a decision has to be made, it's put to a vote. If they can't come to agreement, talk it out and try to find another plan they can agree with. If that doesn't work out, remember some decisions are made by making no decision. And, if the decision absolutely must be made, and they cannot agree, God empowers hubby with the tie breaking vote just as much as he empowers hubby with a love for his wife.

In a good marriage, the submitting thingy just ain't that hard. After all, hubby submits to God and loves wifey, so how often do you think it works out that he makes a decision the wifey hates?
Click to expand...
decisions where discussion and compromise don't work must be fairly serious ones.

I do not think it is wise to have an assumption the man should always have the final say in every such situations because it fails to take into account that it is highly unlikely the man will always have the greater degree of wisdom and expertise, in every situation, in which case he should yield to the wife.... and that works both ways of course.
 
JFSurvivor

JFSurvivor

Senior Member
#11
Jan 20, 2015
1,184
25
0
#11
mystikmind said:
decisions where discussion and compromise don't work must be fairly serious ones.

I do not think it is wise to have an assumption the man should always have the final say in every such situations because it fails to take into account that it is highly unlikely the man will always have the greater degree of wisdom and expertise, in every situation, in which case he should yield to the wife.... and that works both ways of course.
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*applauds*
 
P

presidente

Senior Member
#12
May 29, 2013
9,166
1,797
113
#12
MyLighthouse said:
I feel the subject of submission is very picky. I really like what JFSurvivor said on it though.

I know for me the idea of marriage in the Bible is just not my idea of what I feel it should be like. I grew up in a different home, with my grandmother caring for my brothers and I. We work as a team in making the house have structure. Still, being the oldest I do house work (like everyone else, but less because of other responsibilities), but my main duty in the household is provider as well as helping with order (discipline) and leadership in the home.

So in marriage I would see myself doing the same thing, with providing and having leadership of the family and my husband at home. Don't worry, I don't plan on ever marrying because of this. I know that's not how God plans it. A women is to submit to her husband's leadership and authority as Christ, blah blah and relieves the husband from further pressures by taking care of the home and children, blah blah.

Yet, why can't it be this way? Until sin came in the world it seems to me Adam and Eve had equal authority. Would not Jesus change this back having redeemed us from sin?
Click to expand...
If you read what Paul wrote, part of man's headship in marriage is related to the fact that 'Adam was formed first, then Eve" and that happened before they fell into sin.

As far as working outside the home goes, plenty of couples both work these days. I prefer to stay-at-home wife situation. But my wife and I have a business now and we both work on it. If you look at Proverbs 31, the wife was active at working at things that contributed wealth to the household. She bought a field and worked it. The idea that women can't work outside of the home is a kind of 1950's ideal, not something the Bible directly states. If you marry and your husband is okay with it, you can work outside the home. It is good to make children a priority, though.
 
P

presidente

Senior Member
#13
May 29, 2013
9,166
1,797
113
#13
mystikmind said:
decisions where discussion and compromise don't work must be fairly serious ones.

I do not think it is wise to have an assumption the man should always have the final say in every such situations because it fails to take into account that it is highly unlikely the man will always have the greater degree of wisdom and expertise, in every situation, in which case he should yield to the wife.... and that works both ways of course.
Click to expand...
The husband is held responsible before God for his decisions if he chooses the route his wife wants or the one he proposes. And she should submit to either decision he makes. The thing a husband needs to keep in mind is not to let pride get the way. If his wife has a good idea and it makes more sense, why not do that? It is also normal for a wife to want to please her husband and for a husband to want to please his wife, which also factors into decision making. IMO, most decision-making in a healthy marriage isn't a battle of the wills where both go loggerheads with each other.
 
P

Pumicestone

Banned
#14
Mar 21, 2015
643
4
0
#14
[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="class: source, align: right"]Ephesians 5:22-24[/TD]
[TD="class: quote"]Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.
For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.
Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: source, align: right"][/TD]
[TD="class: quote"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: source, align: right"][/TD]
[TD="class: quote"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I'll ask wifey's permission if it's OK to comply with this directive.
 
M

mystikmind

Guest
#15
#15
presidente said:
If you read what Paul wrote, part of man's headship in marriage is related to the fact that 'Adam was formed first, then Eve" and that happened before they fell into sin.

As far as working outside the home goes, plenty of couples both work these days. I prefer to stay-at-home wife situation. But my wife and I have a business now and we both work on it. If you look at Proverbs 31, the wife was active at working at things that contributed wealth to the household. She bought a field and worked it. The idea that women can't work outside of the home is a kind of 1950's ideal, not something the Bible directly states. If you marry and your husband is okay with it, you can work outside the home. It is good to make children a priority, though.
Click to expand...
It is probably a similar situation in America as it is in Australia..... in the 1950's when everyone was much poorer, they could afford for the wife to stay at home and look after the kids, and the government made too many laws to prevent cottage industry allowing people to be more self sufficient. Remember all those stories your grand parents will tell you about all the ways of being self sufficient they were never allowed to do but how they are all legal now? These days society is much richer, so of course we cannot afford for the wife not to work, and childcare is so much cheaper and accessible than ever before...... (*allert* massive sarcasm *allert*)
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#16
#16
Notice that there are two different words used for wives and children- submit and obey. They are not the same. If submit meant obey, then the wife would be like one of the children, and would not have authority over the children. Just because a wife is the weaker partner, that does not mean he can take away the word partner altogether. As a partner you make decisions together. You encourage him leading the family as long as he is leading righteously. If my husband is someone I can look up to and respect, if he's an upright and Godly man, that would ignite my God given desire to please him (Genesis 3). And the opposite would do the opposite.
 
J

Jeff_56

Banned
#17
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
19
0
#17
keep seeking in GOD'S WORD. what you said is 'nice' and perhaps 'socially okay', but it's not what the BIBLE (GOD'S WORD) says. no use arguing it here either, because it will take willingness and time and GOD'S working / revelation through JESUS HIS SON.
 
P

presidente

Senior Member
#18
May 29, 2013
9,166
1,797
113
#18
Kaycie said:
Notice that there are two different words used for wives and children- submit and obey. They are not the same. If submit meant obey, then the wife would be like one of the children, and would not have authority over the children.
Click to expand...
But Peter does use the word translated 'obey' in I Peter 3, where he tells wives to submit to their husbands like Sarah who obeyed Abraham. It doesn't follow logically that if a wife is to obey her husband, that the children do not have to obey her.
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#19
#19
mystikmind said:
It is probably a similar situation in America as it is in Australia..... in the 1950's when everyone was much poorer, they could afford for the wife to stay at home and look after the kids, and the government made too many laws to prevent cottage industry allowing people to be more self sufficient. Remember all those stories your grand parents will tell you about all the ways of being self sufficient they were never allowed to do but how they are all legal now? These days society is much richer, so of course we cannot afford for the wife not to work, and childcare is so much cheaper and accessible than ever before...... (*allert* massive sarcasm *allert*)
Click to expand...
The only difference between now and the 1950s is our governments set up an income tax for the future that pretty much forced the two-income family. We're not richer. We're poorer. Used to be we could do well with just one income. Now we're stretched thin with two-incomes. (Lost sarcasm alert all together. lol)
 
J

Jeff_56

Banned
#20
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
19
0
#20
concerning our needs, God's WORD is faithful and true.

jesus put it this way "the gentiles(pagans) all seek after these things... >>

Matthew 6:32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your ...
biblehub.com/matthew/6-32.htm
‎
(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth
that ye have need of all these things. Holman Christian Standard Bible For the ...
[h=1] Matthew 6:32-34King James Version (KJV)
[/h] [SUP]32 [/SUP](For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

King James Version (KJV) by Public Domain
 
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