Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,
Abraham was SAVED BEFORE Genesis 15.
What about Genesis 12
12The Lord had said to Abram, “Go from your country, your people and your father’s household to the land I will show you.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]“I will make you into a great nation,
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.[SUP][a][/SUP]
[SUP]3 [/SUP]I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you.”[SUP][b][/SUP]
[SUP]4 [/SUP]So Abram went, as the Lord had told him; and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he set out from Harran. [SUP]5 [/SUP]He took his wife Sarai, his nephew Lot, all the possessions they had accumulated and the people they had acquired in Harran, and they set out for the land of Canaan, and they arrived there.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Abram traveled through the land as far as the site of the great tree of Moreh at Shechem. At that time the Canaanites were in the land. [SUP]7 [/SUP]The Lord appeared to Abram and said, “To your offspring[SUP][c][/SUP] I will give this land.” So he built an altar there to the Lord, who had appeared to him.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]From there he went on toward the hills east of Bethel and pitched his tent, with Bethel on the west and Ai on the east. There he built an altar to the Lord and called on the name of the Lord.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then Abram set out and continued toward the Negev.
Genesis 12 COMES BEFORE Genesis 15
Abraham believed and OBEYED God in Genesis 12.
Genesis 15 says this
6Abram believed the Lord, and he credited it to him as righteousness.
You CAN NOT pull Romans 4:2-3 OUT OF THE CONTEXT of chapters 2,3 and 4 and have it make sense. That whole section starts in chapter 2 and that whole section is speaking to the ISRAELITES NOT GENTILES. The gentiles DID NOT HAVE THE LAW.
Romans 2
17Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and boast in God;
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. [SUP]26 [/SUP]So then, if those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? [SUP]27 [/SUP]The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the[SUP][c][/SUP] written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.
Romans 3
1What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? [SUP]2 [/SUP]Much in every way! First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin
[SUP]19[/SUP]Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.[SUP]22 [/SUP]This righteousness is given through faith in[SUP][h][/SUP] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, [SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [SUP]24 [/SUP]and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. [SUP]25 [/SUP]God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[SUP][i][/SUP] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— [SUP]26 [/SUP]he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
[SUP]27[/SUP]Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. [SUP]28 [/SUP]For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, [SUP]30 [/SUP]since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
Romans 4
1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter?
Paul's thoughts throughout that was that the Israelites would NOT BE SAVED by the righteous works of the law.
Abraham was SAVED BEFORE Genesis 15.
What about Genesis 12
12The Lord had said to Abram, “Go from your country, your people and your father’s household to the land I will show you.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]“I will make you into a great nation,
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.[SUP][a][/SUP]
[SUP]3 [/SUP]I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you.”[SUP][b][/SUP]
[SUP]4 [/SUP]So Abram went, as the Lord had told him; and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he set out from Harran. [SUP]5 [/SUP]He took his wife Sarai, his nephew Lot, all the possessions they had accumulated and the people they had acquired in Harran, and they set out for the land of Canaan, and they arrived there.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Abram traveled through the land as far as the site of the great tree of Moreh at Shechem. At that time the Canaanites were in the land. [SUP]7 [/SUP]The Lord appeared to Abram and said, “To your offspring[SUP][c][/SUP] I will give this land.” So he built an altar there to the Lord, who had appeared to him.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]From there he went on toward the hills east of Bethel and pitched his tent, with Bethel on the west and Ai on the east. There he built an altar to the Lord and called on the name of the Lord.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then Abram set out and continued toward the Negev.
Genesis 12 COMES BEFORE Genesis 15
Abraham believed and OBEYED God in Genesis 12.
Genesis 15 says this
6Abram believed the Lord, and he credited it to him as righteousness.
You CAN NOT pull Romans 4:2-3 OUT OF THE CONTEXT of chapters 2,3 and 4 and have it make sense. That whole section starts in chapter 2 and that whole section is speaking to the ISRAELITES NOT GENTILES. The gentiles DID NOT HAVE THE LAW.
Romans 2
17Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and boast in God;
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. [SUP]26 [/SUP]So then, if those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? [SUP]27 [/SUP]The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the[SUP][c][/SUP] written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.
Romans 3
1What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? [SUP]2 [/SUP]Much in every way! First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin
[SUP]19[/SUP]Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.[SUP]22 [/SUP]This righteousness is given through faith in[SUP][h][/SUP] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, [SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [SUP]24 [/SUP]and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. [SUP]25 [/SUP]God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[SUP][i][/SUP] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— [SUP]26 [/SUP]he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
[SUP]27[/SUP]Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. [SUP]28 [/SUP]For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, [SUP]30 [/SUP]since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
Romans 4
1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter?
Paul's thoughts throughout that was that the Israelites would NOT BE SAVED by the righteous works of the law.
