Is Dr. Dino (Kent Hovind) a total joke?

Viligant_Warrior · May 6, 2015

Big deal. You Googled "human and dinosaur footprints" and gave us a link. So what?

You've made all sorts of other claims, some appeals to authority -- a logical fallacy, by the way, in case you didn't know -- but have done nothing but gripe, moan, and complain that people believe the Bible while doing your level best to belittle, denigrate, and disparage us for doing so. Time to put up or shut up: Show some "proof" for evolution.

Hint: There's a reason "proof" is in quotation marks.

JackH · May 6, 2015

Viligant_Warrior said:

That other Kent Hovind thread on the first page is "proof" you have considerable difficulty figuring things out.

This is funny stuff:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/15493-kent-hovind.html

No matter what "proof" I offer you would reject it because it doesn't jive with your 6,000-year-old worldview.

You are not interested in information, you are only interested in affirmation.

Who is going to decide what "proof" is sufficient?

How about a court of law?

If a major court decided that evolution is good science would you accept that?

Galahad · May 6, 2015

JackH said:

Times, years, months, days are all calculated or counted in different ways by the various groups of peoples in the Bible.

Stephen63 · May 6, 2015

JackH said:

Genesis 7:17-24 (KJV) [SUP]17 [/SUP]And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters. [SUP]19 [/SUP]And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. [SUP]21 [/SUP]And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: [SUP]22 [/SUP]All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark. [SUP]24 [/SUP]And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

Well, you're right...... it wasn't 20 cubits after all.

Jeff_56 · May 6, 2015

jamie26301 said:

no. that's not even close to true, ever, historically or biblically.

the liars lie (and keep on lying, never learning). and they are or try to appeal to the majority - that's what the bible says, in most of the world and among so-called 'scholars' and religious fakes.

JackH · May 6, 2015

dcontroversal said:

I think Dr. Dino (Kent Hovind) is hilarious.

So do many others who have read his PhD thesis.

In this article linked to below you will find a link to that thesis so that you can read it for your own self:

Creationist Kent Hovind’s PhD thesis is a jumble of juvenile jabber… | Caraleisa

Note that the author of the article says:

"Each page is truly a gem of inconceivable irrationality. I would not have allowed my children to hand in something this poor in middle school, much less expect such a pitiful effort for a doctoral thesis.

Hovind’s ‘science’ is laughable. He has no grasp whatsoever of what evolution is, yet he argues against it a la the Kirk Cameron school of wide-eyed disingenuity.

It has either not been proofread, or proofed by someone as ignorant as Hovind himself. Any page is replete with mistakes and/or absurdities – usually both."

Those are exactly my thoughts after reading it, and note the quote from Wikipedia.

And I would add that many of the Young Earth Creationists who have posted on this thread likewise have no grasp whatsoever of what evolution is.

kodiak · May 6, 2015

kodiak said:

JackH said:

First explain what I asked you to. quote above
Why are you saying that I think proves?....you already disagree with it and have not read it....so is my posting links to something even going to change your mind? do you own research and open up your heart to the truth, you will be surprised.

dcontroversal · May 6, 2015

JackH said:

Look Jack, no matter how you slice and dice it...evolution as the medium by which life came to be is nothing more than a theory invented by men who choose to reject God as the creator and sustainer of life......An honest evaluation of the things that are will reveal the simple truth that someone designed it all.....I could care less what any man has to say concerning evolution and or even the good Doctor and his view in question.......and to be quite frank.....I suggest you chunk all of the opinions of men, take a step back and do an honest evaluation of the facts that blare loudly......the first simple fact of a green and blue world at exactly the right distance from the sun to sustain life is in itself proof of a designer and in no way, shape or form an evolutionary accident!

Stephen63 · May 6, 2015

IMO DC, anyone who believes man over God is a fool. Let God be true & every man a liar.

Tintin · May 6, 2015

JackH said:

Oh, Jack. I don't see people bringing up Dr. Dino on CC much at all. You're the one who does it. You're the one who posts about him all of the freaking time. It's very, very silly.

JackH · May 6, 2015

dcontroversal said:

I agree in general with what Billy Graham and other significant religious leaders have said on the subject:

Billy Graham:

“I don’t think that there’s any conflict at all between science today and the scriptures. I think that we have misinterpreted the Scriptures many times and we’ve tried to make the Scriptures say things they weren’t meant to say, I think that we have made a mistake by thinking the Bible is a scientific book. The Bible is not a book of science. The Bible is a book of Redemption, and of course I accept the Creation story. I believe that God did create the universe. I believe that God created man, and whether it came by an evolutionary process and at a certain point He took this person or being and made him a living soul or not, does not change the fact that God did create man. … whichever way God did it makes no difference as to what man is and man’s relationship to God.” Billy Graham: Personal Thoughts of a Public Man, 1997. p. 72-74

I do not agree with what Ken Hovind has said and what YECs on this thread have said, for example:

1. The earth is around 6,000 years old.

2. Humans and dinosaurs coexisted.

3. There was a global flood around 4,500 years ago.

There is no scientific evidence from any credible source that confirms any of the above.

If there was, you would find such evidence in reputable peer-reviewed scientific journals.

Where you do find such claims and alleged evidence is YEC sites like ICR, AIG, and CMI.

Those websites misrepresent science, and that's being kind.

The judge said YECs misrepresent science.

Tintin · May 6, 2015

jamie26301 said:

No, there was much more too it. Most Christians at the time weren't fooled by the Gnostic books and didn't recognise the books that made it into the Apocrypha as the inspired word of God. The Council was there to see to it that it was decided, once and for all, which books were inspired (and therefore should be included) and which one's shouldn't be. There was a strict criteria to determine this, but the Council was there to remove any confusion for those who may have been new to the faith or seekers (and were therefore uncertain of which books belonged to the canon). This wasn't a power-play of educated men voting for their favourite and least favourite books. These were godly men guided by the Holy Spirit as to what to include in the official canon.

There's a lot of misinformation spread by non-Christians and it really needs to be corrected. Think about the Mosaic Law. Much of God's Law had already been revealed to His people over time, since the beginning of time, but God set some of these in stone and had Moses (guided by Holy Spirit) write down other laws so there was no confusion, there could be no misunderstanding what God expected of His people. The Council to determine the canon was a little like that.

JackH · May 6, 2015

Tintin said:

Do you actually ever pay attention to what is being said?

I said in my first post why I brought up Kent Hovind.

What did I say in my first post?

And today I see a thread entitled "Kent Hovind" from 5 years ago brought back to life.

I should bring back to life every thread on Dr. Dino ever started here.

Now that would be funny, 'eh?

Bassey · May 6, 2015

jamie26301 said:

Truth is independent on the majority still....

Unorthodox text are false because they are against the truth, and it just so happens the truth in this case is with the majority. But in many cases the truth isnt with the majority, even when they think they are right. Therefore we can't objectively base truth and facts on majority.

jamie26301 · May 6, 2015

Stephen63 said:

Solomon defines a fool as one who doesn't fear or have regard for God - that's different from challenging what God says (or, what has been traditionally interpreted as what He said.)

And Jesus also said "Any who says 'You fool' shall be in danger of hellfire." That's very important to know if you ascribe to a literal interpretation.

jamie26301 · May 6, 2015

Bassey said:

So... who decides when the majority is in favor of the truth? What's the criteria and who sets it? What some believe as the absolute word of God was selected on a vote.... before a modification by the Protestants. I just think it's ironic then to turn around and use the "poor us, we're a minority" defense as to why a doctrine is correct.

jamie26301 · May 7, 2015

JackH said:

"The bible teaches us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go."
Cardinal Baronius.

“Science investigates; religion interprets. Science gives man knowledge, which is power; religion gives man wisdom, which is control. Science deals mainly with facts; religion deals mainly with values. The two are not rivals.”

-Martin Luther King Jr.

Science can purify religion from error and superstition. Religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes.
- Pope John Paul II (Yeah, I just quoted an evil pointed hat guy

)

The Religion that is afraid of science dishonours God and commits suicide. It acknowledges that it is not equal to the whole of truth, that it legislates, tyrannizes over a village of God’s empires but is not the immutable universal law.
-Ralph Waldo Emerson

And how about THIS for a flexible religion:

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]If science proves some belief of Buddhism wrong, then Buddhism will have to change.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]—Tenzin Gyatso, the Dalai Lama[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Lots of people, very intelligent, notable people say these can coexist, and must! It's like Bill Nye said - you got evidence, bring it! "You will change the world!" He said that - that would be highly notable.

But here's the thing - if you go teaching your kids that they can't trust scientists and their findings because it doesn't line up with a few verses in the Bible, you are going to weaken the scientific progress. It's no longer about asking questions and testing them - it's about bringing conclusions to the table, AND THEN looking for what fits that. That's not "historical science" - that's not science AT ALL, because it is not inquisitive - it already knows the answer.

It's easy to claim you are being suppressed - however, I don't know of any censoring, as YEC get their opinions out there very easily. As far as that famous debate... I know AiG has a technical journal, I think it's called TJ... and yet he's going up there putting forth the general basics that he presents in his presentations? That's what amazed me - I KNOW that YEC scientists can speak with more knowledge and even convincing arguments than he did.

I think the "minority, therefore I'm right" sentiment is bad, because it is not appealing to truth, but to the numbers who agree with it... and one reason is that being stigmatized doesn't make you right. A man who goes into an abortion clinic and murders a doctor, isn't going to have anyone's sympathy in crying persecution.

And some within the YEC movement: some of the things I've seen written on the AiG page, even by their staff... not loving. They had JP Holding articles at point - like, he's about one of the most abrasive, judgemental apologetics there is. I don't mean not loving as in the truth is hard, I mean not loving as in you don't agree (and it has nothing to do with the center, Jesus) so you suck." And of course, these attitudes are on the other side of the debate, even in the Christian community, as seen here on this thread.

And Galahad, I will answer your post.

Thank you.

JackH · May 7, 2015

Stephen63 said:

Genesis 7:17-24 (KJV) [SUP]17 [/SUP]And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters. [SUP]19 [/SUP]And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. [SUP]21 [/SUP]And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: [SUP]22 [/SUP]All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark. [SUP]24 [/SUP]And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

Well, you're right...... it wasn't 20 cubits after all.

What about Mt. Ararat that you mentioned in your post about the 20 cubits?

Are you saying the water went 15 cubits above Mt. Ararat?

In the verses you quoted above, how do you define the word earth?

The planet Earth, or what?

JackH · May 7, 2015

Tintin said:

There's a lot of misinformation spread by Young Earth Creationists and it really needs to be corrected.

I don't know how yinz do it Down Under, but one way to get to the truth is to take the matter to court where individuals have to testify under oath. And then a decision is made regarding the "truth" of the matter.

No doubt you have thoroughly scrutinized the decision in Kitzmiller v. Dover, since it was so important to Young Earth Creationism (and not in a good way, for YECs).

The judge said in his opinion:

"Both Defendants and many of the leading proponents of ID make a bedrock assumption which is utterly false. Their presupposition is that evolutionary theory is antithetical to a belief in the existence of a supreme being and to religion in general. Repeatedly in this trial, Plaintiffs' scientific experts testified that the theory of evolution represents good science, is overwhelmingly accepted by the scientific community, and that it in no way conflicts with, nor does it deny, the existence of a divine creator.

To be sure, Darwin's theory of evolution is imperfect. However, the fact that a scientific theory cannot yet render an explanation on every point should not be used as a pretext to thrust an untestable alternative hypothesis grounded in religion into the science classroom or to misrepresent well-established scientific propositions."

Focus on the last sentence. "misrepresent well-established scientific propositions."

YECs misrepresent science, in court cases that they keep losing, at websites like the ones you keeping saying are wonderful (Like ICR, AIG, and CMI), and right here on this thread.

Viligant_Warrior · May 7, 2015

JackH said:

That's a long winded post just to say "I don't have any." Done here ...

Except to say, you're clueless. I've not defended Hovind. What's that say about your attention span?

Is Dr. Dino (Kent Hovind) a total joke?

Viligant_Warrior

Guest

Banned

Galahad

Guest

Banned

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Tintin

Guest

Banned

Tintin

Guest

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Viligant_Warrior

Guest