When does the rapture occur?
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2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
I am that CONVINCED that the Calling Out of the Bride will happen before the Antichrist orchestrates the Seven Year Peace Treaty with Israel, because I ALREADY HAVE put that teaching to the TEST decades ago, and the HOLY SPIRIT IN ME, has ALREADY convinced me that I have believed the TRUTH. To continually examine every wind of Doctrine to see if one has believed the truth, is a sign of spiritual immaturity. But from what you appear to believe, you may do well not to totally trust what you have believed.
Ephesians 4:11-15 (NKJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
[SUP]15 [/SUP]but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head--Christ--
Hebrews 6:1-2 (GW)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]With this in mind, we should stop going over the elementary truths about Christ and move on to topics for more mature people. We shouldn't repeat the basics about turning away from the useless things we did and the basics about faith in God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]We shouldn't repeat the basic teachings about such things as baptisms, setting people apart for holy tasks, dead people coming back to life, and eternal judgment.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
I am that CONVINCED that the Calling Out of the Bride will happen before the Antichrist orchestrates the Seven Year Peace Treaty with Israel, because I ALREADY HAVE put that teaching to the TEST decades ago, and the HOLY SPIRIT IN ME, has ALREADY convinced me that I have believed the TRUTH. To continually examine every wind of Doctrine to see if one has believed the truth, is a sign of spiritual immaturity. But from what you appear to believe, you may do well not to totally trust what you have believed.
Ephesians 4:11-15 (NKJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
[SUP]15 [/SUP]but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head--Christ--
Hebrews 6:1-2 (GW)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]With this in mind, we should stop going over the elementary truths about Christ and move on to topics for more mature people. We shouldn't repeat the basics about turning away from the useless things we did and the basics about faith in God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]We shouldn't repeat the basic teachings about such things as baptisms, setting people apart for holy tasks, dead people coming back to life, and eternal judgment.
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WHEN THE ROLL IS CALLED UP YONDER
Words & Music: James M. Black, 1893
When the trumpet of the Lord shall sound, and time shall be no more,
And the morning breaks, eternal, bright and fair;
When the saved of earth shall gather over on the other shore,
And the roll is called up yonder, I’ll be there.
Refrain
When the roll, is called up yon-der,
When the roll, is called up yon-der,
When the roll, is called up yon-der,
When the roll is called up yonder I’ll be there.
On that bright and cloudless morning when the dead in Christ shall rise,
And the glory of His resurrection share;
When His chosen ones shall gather to their home beyond the skies,
And the roll is called up yonder, I’ll be there.
Refrain
Let us labor for the Master from the dawn till setting sun,
Let us talk of all His wondrous love and care;
Then when all of life is over, and our work on earth is done,
And the roll is called up yonder, I’ll be there.
Time Shall Be No More???
Dead in Christ Shall Rise???
When all of life is over???
Clearly, not before the Tribulation
. Second Coming all the Way!!
Words & Music: James M. Black, 1893
When the trumpet of the Lord shall sound, and time shall be no more,
And the morning breaks, eternal, bright and fair;
When the saved of earth shall gather over on the other shore,
And the roll is called up yonder, I’ll be there.
Refrain
When the roll, is called up yon-der,
When the roll, is called up yon-der,
When the roll, is called up yon-der,
When the roll is called up yonder I’ll be there.
On that bright and cloudless morning when the dead in Christ shall rise,
And the glory of His resurrection share;
When His chosen ones shall gather to their home beyond the skies,
And the roll is called up yonder, I’ll be there.
Refrain
Let us labor for the Master from the dawn till setting sun,
Let us talk of all His wondrous love and care;
Then when all of life is over, and our work on earth is done,
And the roll is called up yonder, I’ll be there.
Time Shall Be No More???
Dead in Christ Shall Rise???
When all of life is over???
Clearly, not before the Tribulation
. Second Coming all the Way!!
The Song you quoted is a Pre-Trib believing song, buy a Song Writer named James Milton Black, who started His Career at Moody Bible Institute, a famous Pre-Trib believing school. We certainly believe ALL of the Dead truly in Christ (born again) rise from their graves BEFORE we are Caught Up, if we are still alive when the Bridegroom tells His Archangel to Shout and call HIS BRIDE OUT of her old dwelling place Earth. You did not get the true meaning of his words because you view everything through the false doctrine of Non Pre-Trib, something like rose colored glasses distort the true colors of everything.
Luke 22:35-36 (HCSB)
[SUP]35 [/SUP] He also said to them, “When I sent you out without money-bag, traveling bag, or sandals, did you lack anything?” “Not a thing,” they said.
[SUP]36 [/SUP] Then He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money-bag should take it, and also a traveling bag. And whoever doesn’t have a sword should sell his robe and buy one.
Firearms replaced the sword as the common self defense weapon.
I'm glad you have a 100% infallible lock on the truth. Nice to meet you jesus.
Methinks some people should stop smoking the spinach, 'cause it's making your egos too big. You know, the higher you climb on the pedestal, the farther you have to fall.
Frankly, I don't care when the rapture happens. I'm preparing for post, hoping for pre, believe it's somewhere in between, but really what I think is moot. What REALLY CONCERNS me here is the infallible egos of you people. Humble thyselves, lest ye be humbled!
Methinks some people should stop smoking the spinach, 'cause it's making your egos too big. You know, the higher you climb on the pedestal, the farther you have to fall.
Frankly, I don't care when the rapture happens. I'm preparing for post, hoping for pre, believe it's somewhere in between, but really what I think is moot. What REALLY CONCERNS me here is the infallible egos of you people. Humble thyselves, lest ye be humbled!
Ricky, you too can really have that kind of inner personal LOVE relationship with the LORD Jesus Christ in your heart for REAL. You will know it happened, when wave after wave of remorse over your utter sinfulness washes over you, and you cry out to HIM sobbing for forgiveness; as you willingly out of a DEEP LOVE for HIM totally surrender to HIM as your MASTER (LORD), giving HIM complete control of your life forever, without keeping one tiny bit back for yourself.
That is NOT something you do in your mind out of your strength; that is something the HOLY SPIRIT HIMSELF DOES IN YOUR HEART {your human spirit}.
Galatians 2:20 (ISV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I no longer live, but Christ lives in me, and the life that I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
[video]https://youtu.be/HcnfT4arZtI[/video]
That is NOT something you do in your mind out of your strength; that is something the HOLY SPIRIT HIMSELF DOES IN YOUR HEART {your human spirit}.
Galatians 2:20 (ISV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I no longer live, but Christ lives in me, and the life that I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
[video]https://youtu.be/HcnfT4arZtI[/video]
you mean you will believe what you THINK the Bible says.
Zechariah 14:1-4 (NKJV)
This is describing 70 AD. 'all the nations' refers to surrounding nations. It was God's final judgment on Jerusalem because they had crucified His Son
And that is what the LORD did. He went forth as a mighty warrior to bring the nations to Himself.
which is precisely what happened. He took His stand on the mount of Olives and pronounced judgment over Jerusalem (Mark 13.3 ff).
Why the mount of olives, mentioned nowhere else in the Old Testament? Because in Zechariah olive trees represent God's witnesses (Zech 4.12-14). The mount of olives represented God's powerful witness through His anointed ones, and its rending in half indicated that His witnesses would go both north and south as did the witnesses of the Messiah as they went out to the world.
I see no mention of the second coming. You are inventing it. and the only armies mentioned are the armies of witnesses.
The Greek is literally ap arti = FROM NOW ON. These very men sitting there were going to SEE what Jesus described happening. When did they see Him seated at the right hand of power? As a consequence of His resurrection when He sent His Holy Spirit to manifest His power at work in the world.
What does 'coming on the clouds of Heaven' mean to the Sadducees and Rabbis? They would see it in terms of when the Son of Man came on the clouds of Heaven INTO THE PRESENCE OF THE ANCIENT OF DAYS to receive His kingdom. (Dan 7.13-14). Again it was a description of them seeing His kingdom established as large numbers of Jews responded to the Messiah.
[SUP]64 [/SUP] “You have said it,” Jesus told him. “But I tell you, FROM NOW ON you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power {after the Resurrection} and coming on the clouds of heaven.” {As His kingdom was established after His resurrection.}
Zechariah 14:1-4 (NKJV)
This is describing 70 AD. 'all the nations' refers to surrounding nations. It was God's final judgment on Jerusalem because they had crucified His Son
And that is what the LORD did. He went forth as a mighty warrior to bring the nations to Himself.
which is precisely what happened. He took His stand on the mount of Olives and pronounced judgment over Jerusalem (Mark 13.3 ff).
Why the mount of olives, mentioned nowhere else in the Old Testament? Because in Zechariah olive trees represent God's witnesses (Zech 4.12-14). The mount of olives represented God's powerful witness through His anointed ones, and its rending in half indicated that His witnesses would go both north and south as did the witnesses of the Messiah as they went out to the world.
I see no mention of the second coming. You are inventing it. and the only armies mentioned are the armies of witnesses.
The Greek is literally ap arti = FROM NOW ON. These very men sitting there were going to SEE what Jesus described happening. When did they see Him seated at the right hand of power? As a consequence of His resurrection when He sent His Holy Spirit to manifest His power at work in the world.
What does 'coming on the clouds of Heaven' mean to the Sadducees and Rabbis? They would see it in terms of when the Son of Man came on the clouds of Heaven INTO THE PRESENCE OF THE ANCIENT OF DAYS to receive His kingdom. (Dan 7.13-14). Again it was a description of them seeing His kingdom established as large numbers of Jews responded to the Messiah.
[SUP]64 [/SUP] “You have said it,” Jesus told him. “But I tell you, FROM NOW ON you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power {after the Resurrection} and coming on the clouds of heaven.” {As His kingdom was established after His resurrection.}
Originally Posted by VCO
2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
I am that CONVINCED that the Calling Out of the Bride will happen before the Antichrist orchestrates the Seven Year Peace Treaty with Israel, because I ALREADY HAVE put that teaching to the TEST decades ago, and the HOLY SPIRIT IN ME, has ALREADY convinced me that I have believed the TRUTH. To continually examine every wind of Doctrine to see if one has believed the truth, is a sign of spiritual immaturity. But from what you appear to believe, you may do well not to totally trust what you have believed.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
I am that CONVINCED that the Calling Out of the Bride will happen before the Antichrist orchestrates the Seven Year Peace Treaty with Israel, because I ALREADY HAVE put that teaching to the TEST decades ago, and the HOLY SPIRIT IN ME, has ALREADY convinced me that I have believed the TRUTH. To continually examine every wind of Doctrine to see if one has believed the truth, is a sign of spiritual immaturity. But from what you appear to believe, you may do well not to totally trust what you have believed.
Have you no conscience or humility whatsoever? Arrogance is a gross sin.
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S
Revelation 20:4-6
As I have stated before, I don't believe that the verses referencing "the rapture" are really about that at all but are actually referring to the first resurrection. The same time that the two witnesses are resurrected and ascend into heaven in the same manner as Christ, then I believe everyone else will follow. These are ONLY those who were alive to reject the Antichrist. Everyone else in history will wait until the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ on Earth as it is written. When you open your mind to God it all actually reads like a great book. (The irony of that statement is not lost on me.) But yes I believe that all of those references point to that one event.
As I have stated before, I don't believe that the verses referencing "the rapture" are really about that at all but are actually referring to the first resurrection. The same time that the two witnesses are resurrected and ascend into heaven in the same manner as Christ, then I believe everyone else will follow. These are ONLY those who were alive to reject the Antichrist. Everyone else in history will wait until the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ on Earth as it is written. When you open your mind to God it all actually reads like a great book. (The irony of that statement is not lost on me.) But yes I believe that all of those references point to that one event.
S
Congratulations on your redemption. My first memories are of conversations between God and myself. I have literally been studying God and His will my entire conscientious life. What I speak has not been revealed to me by man but by God Himself in my quiet times. He then confirmed it to me as I tried to deny what He showed me and told me for years. It wasn't until I was nearly finished with my time in college that He opened my eyes to how wrong I had been. After reassessing my beliefs and my trust in He who saves I realized that I had been a fool and I spent two years in shock and spiritual silence just listening to Him. And what He continues to share with me blows my mind. I then brought it to pastors and when we debated this topic I realized a crucial falacy in their teachings: in order for there to be a rapture Christ must return between 3-5 times! This is directly from the mouths of pastors.
well its so good to know that everyone on here has received direct revelation from God. Its a pity they all disagree. I guess I'm just a man humble enough to recognise that although I have sought the guidance of the Holy Spirit I may still be wrong. And He guided me out of millennialism (which neither Jesus nor Paul mentioned) into recognising that Jesus Christ is living and reigning NOW and that the SOULS of His saints are living and reigning with Him NOW, as are all who are Christ's (Eph 2.5-6). For the FIRST resurrection is the resurrection of Jesus, the FIRST to be raised from the dead..
S
Actually I am waiting for Christ to appear and slaughter all his enemies in one fell swoop at Armageddon. We will ascend, AFTER the first resurrection. So, in response to a previous post stating that everyone being beheaded makes ascension "impossible" it doesn't matter because the resurrection must occur first, then we ascend to join His army. We who are alive to reject the AC will be in the first resurrection and therefore join Christ on Earth during His reign to reestablish society in the new kingdom.
So no, I am NOT waiting for the Antichrist while at the same time I AM anticipating his arival. For it means Christ is coming soon.
So no, I am NOT waiting for the Antichrist while at the same time I AM anticipating his arival. For it means Christ is coming soon.
