JOHN HAGEE - JIMMY and DONNY SWAGGART

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ember

Guest
#21
Mr. Hagee was on the Daystar Christian TV
the other day promoting his new book.

Mr. Hagee stated that demons were not angels or fallen angels
as he referred to them. He went on to state that it is not recorded
in the bible what they were or where they came from.

So my first question is how does he know they are not angels that
rebelled from God? Since he does not know?

He then stated that angels or fallen angels as he referred to them could not
possess or inhabit a human body. He said they had bodies of their own.

Both Jimmy and Donny Swaggart on the Francis and Friends program on their
broadcasting Christian TV channel, stated the same thing.

That demons were not angels and that angels could not
possess or inhabit a human body.

Not only do they not know one way or the other if demons are fallen angels.

They do not know what is recorded or believe what is recorded in the bible.

In several places in the bible angels inhabited the bodies of humans.

Even the devil, Satan inhabited the body of Judas as recorded in the Book of Luke.

Luke 22:3
Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot,
being of the number of the twelve.


Why do these men tell these lies?
these so called Christian channels operate on other people's money...since most of them are begging for money on a consistent basis, it would appear that money makes their world go round

I would think there are actually very few people on those channels who are worth listening to

That, is a really sad reality
 
E

ember

Guest
#22
Query: my friend, how do all the body parts get a chance to minister 'one to another' if there are 250 people? How does Christ get a chance to use all his children with their functions in such a large crowd? The only way would be to have a 20 hour meeting.
I am starting to think that Paul would fall far short of your standards...

FYI and smell the coffee..Jesus, as recorded in scripture, spoke to multitudes...ie more than 250...the Holy Spirit operates within the boundaries of TRUTH when truth is preached

That, is how so many hearts can be turned to Jesus at the same time

Any number of people, even 10, does not make a safe haven. I don't let anyone pray over me or touch me anymore unless I really know who that person is

Are you expecting 250 people to lay hands on each other or what?
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
53
48
#23
Query: my friend, how do all the body parts get a chance to minister 'one to another' if there are 250 people? How does Christ get a chance to use all his children with their functions in such a large crowd? The only way would be to have a 20 hour meeting.
250 is fairly small compared to the 5000 member churches or more you see nowadays. Besides out of that 250 how many do you think would show up every sunday?
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
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#24
I am starting to think that Paul would fall far short of your standards...

FYI and smell the coffee..Jesus, as recorded in scripture, spoke to multitudes...ie more than 250...the Holy Spirit operates within the boundaries of TRUTH when truth is preached

That, is how so many hearts can be turned to Jesus at the same time

Any number of people, even 10, does not make a safe haven. I don't let anyone pray over me or touch me anymore unless I really know who that person is

Are you expecting 250 people to lay hands on each other or what?
You are confusing an evangelistic meeting with the every member gatherings that were to continue. They actually met every day from house to house. See 1Cor.12 and Romans 12 for a better picture. These were not soul winning gatherings. They were believers gatherings.
 
May 3, 2015
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1
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#25
Mr. Hagee was on the Daystar Christian TV
the other day promoting his new book.

Mr. Hagee stated that demons were not angels or fallen angels
as he referred to them. He went on to state that it is not recorded
in the bible what they were or where they came from.

So my first question is how does he know they are not angels that
rebelled from God? Since he does not know?

He then stated that angels or fallen angels as he referred to them could not
possess or inhabit a human body. He said they had bodies of their own.

Both Jimmy and Donny Swaggart on the Francis and Friends program on their
broadcasting Christian TV channel, stated the same thing.

That demons were not angels and that angels could not
possess or inhabit a human body.

Not only do they not know one way or the other if demons are fallen angels.

They do not know what is recorded or believe what is recorded in the bible.

In several places in the bible angels inhabited the bodies of humans.

Even the devil, Satan inhabited the body of Judas as recorded in the Book of Luke.

Luke 22:3
Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot,
being of the number of the twelve.


Why do these men tell these lies?
Well just because they got kicked out if heaven are they no angels anymore? There still angels just not in heaven any more,

According to the book of Enoch demons are the offspring of when the angels slept with women.

People forget Satan just mean adversary .

Was Satan in Peter when Jesus told Peter get behind me Satan?

Or was he saying what you have in mind is not of Gods mind?
 
E

ember

Guest
#26
You are confusing an evangelistic meeting with the every member gatherings that were to continue. They actually met every day from house to house. See 1Cor.12 and Romans 12 for a better picture. These were not soul winning gatherings. They were believers gatherings.
You must have taken a wrong turn at Albuquerque...when did this thread become about home meetings?

Well where else but in a home were they going to meet...its not like there was a Baptist church on every corner...but you are wrong...the also met in the temple or temple courts depending on what translation one is using

Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart, Acts 2:46

But like I said.....you do not seem able to commend anyone
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
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#27
these so called Christian channels operate on other people's money...since most of them are begging for money on a consistent basis, it would appear that money makes their world go round

I would think there are actually very few people on those channels who are worth listening to

That, is a really sad reality
These so-called "christian channels" are spawning grounds for televangelists. Most aren't christian at all.
 
E

ember

Guest
#28
I agree Stephen...
 
J

Jasher

Guest
#29
Back in my Futurist days we were told that Demons come from a mysterious Pre-Adamic race. Nothing new here as Futurist doctrines are often just empty suppositions. Haven't heard this doctrine lately.

The Bible seems to indicate that God only created two kinds of Spiritual beings - Angels and humans. I don't see any other. So I will stick with Angels until further light comes along.
 

Word_Swordsman

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
48
#30
Mr. Hagee was on the Daystar Christian TV
the other day promoting his new book.

Mr. Hagee stated that demons were not angels or fallen angels
as he referred to them. He went on to state that it is not recorded
in the bible what they were or where they came from.

So my first question is how does he know they are not angels that
rebelled from God? Since he does not know?
What Hagee believes about fallen angels and demons is clearly written in his new book. What's being claimed about him is at least partly taken out of context.

I recommend reading this preview of his new book 'The Three Heavens" at
https://books.google.com/books?id=vA57CAAAQBAJ&pg=PT69&lpg=PT69&dq=john+hagee+demons+not+fallen+angels&source=bl&ots=rFgTNNC5eu&sig=UZHzLWQ_XpwGASL7bSQawzzbHGE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=h0FOVbC7HIGZsAWV8IDABg&ved=0CFEQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=john%20hagee%20demons%20not%20fallen%20angels&f=false

It's always best to go to the source rather than rely on You Tube presentations from a critic that hates someone.

I have read the preview and can't find one statement contrary to the Bible. Once again "heresy hunters" are on the prowl, demonstrating they know far less about the Bible than Hagee.

I did a search to get to the part you are 'challenging', under the section titled "invasion of Demons", the reason that clickable link is so big. It won't let me copy/paste.

Hagee is pro gospel, but airs segments that get the most attention from viewers. It's a bit like the NFL games airing the most interesting commercials. When I open up his regular sermons he's a gospel preacher. He's for Jesus. Luke 9:49-50 (KJV)
[SUP]49 [/SUP] And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. [SUP]50 [/SUP] And Jesus said unto him,
Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

I believe it's best not to condemn any ministry that promotes the gospel of Christ. Jesus says leave them alone.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#31
Query: my friend, how do all the body parts get a chance to minister 'one to another' if there are 250 people? How does Christ get a chance to use all his children with their functions in such a large crowd? The only way would be to have a 20 hour meeting.

Yet,

Brother, the operative word in my post was under 250.

A church of 250 should have at least ten times as many Sunday School teachers as a church of 25.

Small group activities allow ample opportunities to minister. In 52 weeks, each household in the church has oportunity to invite each other household in the church to share a meal and an evening at least twice..

It is not necessary that every member minister to every other member at every worship service.

Every member can choose to fellowship with someone with whom they do NOT have regular contact at every potluck; and potlucks can be frequent.
 

Word_Swordsman

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
48
#32
Back in my Futurist days we were told that Demons come from a mysterious Pre-Adamic race. Nothing new here as Futurist doctrines are often just empty suppositions. Haven't heard this doctrine lately.

The Bible seems to indicate that God only created two kinds of Spiritual beings - Angels and humans. I don't see any other. So I will stick with Angels until further light comes along.
My Bible tells of angels headed by some archangels, indicating more than one classification of angels, possibly further classed as principalities, some pwers, so rulers of darkness headed by by Satan, but also cherubim with four wings, and Seraphim with six wings and four faces, those closest to God, and demons.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,408
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#33
In response to the OP, I don't get why they would say that demons are not fallen angels if they don't know. Maybe it's because demons that are cast out go through dry places. Apparently, they feel a need for some kind of body and presumably angels don't? Maybe that's the theory.

As far as what demons are, I've read different theories. If I remember right it was Tertullian who said that demons were 'fallen angels and their children.' There is the theory that goes along the lines of the Ethiopian version of the Book of Enoch that before the flood, angels had made babies with women (Nephilim babies.) That's one interpretation of Genesis. One theory is that the dead Nephilim's spirits became demons.

Another theory is of course that they are all just fallen angels.

I've also read the theory that demons are spirits of the wicked dead, but that one doesn't seem to fit well with Christian thought, IMO. Alexander Campbell from the Restoration Movement (origin of churches that go by 'Church of Christ) believed that, though I don't think the movement he was a part of widely adopted this view.

If Hagee and the Swaggarts really hold tightly to some speculative area of doctrine, I'd ask if it were in the Dake Study Bible. Swaggart has repeated some controversial teachers out of Finnish Dake's study Bible, which contains commentary.

I think it has to do with two things.....

1. The angels which kept not their first estate have been reserved under the everlasting chains of darkness....
2. Many believe the demons are the evil spirits from the giants that perished in the flood during the days of Noah....the giants which came about from the Sons of God (angels which fell) taking the daughters of Adam and bearing children....

Not saying I agree with this, believe this or teach this....just that this is where they probably get it from......!
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#34
That whole Jimmy Swaggart debacle ran deeper than most people know. During Swaggart's ministry's expansionary years; he had wanted Assemblies of God (AOG) minister and evangelist Marvin Gorman's support base as it was the largest in Louisiana at the time and overlapping with and competing against his own. So like any good businessman, Swaggart hired a private detective to follow Gorman around and sniff out any dirt he could find on the man. He hit pay dirt.

Apparently, Gorman was involved in various adulterous sexual affairs and liaisons. So, Swaggart exposed him and Gorman was defrocked from the AOG, abandoned by his base in shame, and his ministry ended. Without even a "reach around" (e.g. compensation of any sort whatsoever), Swaggart then swooped in and picked up Gorman's old support base expanding his own empire further exactly as he had planned.

While, as you can imagine, Gorman was furious. So he launched a carefully orchestrated retaliatory attack of his own on Swaggart that was two-pronged.

The first prong was to divert Swaggart's attention by slapping him with a $90 million dollar libel case. It worked. Swaggart became consumed with fighting it. Ultimately, Gorman did win his lawsuit and the jury awarded Gorman's television and crusade ministries $9 million with an additional $600,000 for defamation and $400,000 for intentional infliction of emotional distress.

But, of course, the jury award was mere peanuts to the monetary amounts these guys were used to working with. Swaggart's ministry often topped out at more than $150 million a year at the time. Much more importantly, the lawsuit had put stress on Swaggart (stress can cause people to engage in stress relieving behaviors that may not be moral) while diverting his attention from the retaliatory move Gorman had planned.

For Gorman had hired a private detective who had gotten the goods on Swaggart's own sexual misconduct. To trap Swaggart, Gorman hired his son Randy and son-in-law Garland Bilbo to stake out the Travel Inn on Airline Highway in New Orleans where they used a camera with a telephoto lens in the window of the motel's Room 12 draped with a black cloth and caught Swaggart on photos with Debra Murphree a local prostitute.

Revenge time had arrived. Gorman went to the AOG with his file on Swaggart and turned it in. Despite Swaggart's enormous power and influence, the AOG followed their disciplinary policy to a tee and immediately suspended Swaggart for three months and then soon extended the suspension to their standard two-year suspension for sexual immorality. Believing that Swaggart was not genuinely repentant; the AOG defrocked him, removed his credentials and ministerial license, and distanced themselves.

You can't make this stuff up folks. It's a real world soap opera I tell you.


Jimmy Swaggart consorted with prostitutes at the height of his TV ministry. During that time, he was condemning other tele-evangelists for their sins. When the Assemblies of God, his governing body tried to discipline him, he refused and kept right on with his ministry. He is NOT a good example of a teacher you should be listening to. In fact, neither is Hagee, who is a Word of Faith teacher, who doesn't know the Bible and puts his own spin on everything. My thought is if you want answers, go to the Bible, not TV evangelists.
 

Yonah

Senior Member
Oct 31, 2014
1,074
103
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#35
If more people would prayerfully study the bible for themselves, instead of relying on others to do it there would not be the oppritunity for this kind of false teaching, (2 Timothy 2:15) what is Timothy being told to divide the word of truth from?
any good teacher of truth would encourage folks to not only read and study for themselves but also to verify everything they themselves teach, (in scripture). these men and anyone who teaches false doctrine will surely give account before the one who called them, however so will we if we choose to remain ignorant and not study the words of life ourselves, so rather then pointing out the wrong of others in this matter, it seems more productive to encourage each other to search and seek the real truth, after all HE wants us to know it, His Spriit will surely lead and guide us into all truth (John 16:13) so just pray and seek what He has chosen to reveal to you, and leave the others to Him.
 

Word_Swordsman

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
48
#36
these so called Christian channels operate on other people's money...since most of them are begging for money on a consistent basis, it would appear that money makes their world go round

I would think there are actually very few people on those channels who are worth listening to

That, is a really sad reality
Our church broadcasts via cable, satellite, and internet, promoting the gospel around the world. An example of our outreach is a children's home in Nepal, which while they were worshiping inside, was not harmed while churches in every direction crumbled.

Big ministries are doing amazing things here and around the world, too much for a library of books to contain. It takes a lot of money to do the projects that result in the spread of the gospel. When another big ministry needs a helping hand in a crisis, like Samaritan's Purse, we gladly 'empty our pockets', raise a few million happily.

Broadcasting ministries are aware there are a lot of viewers that don't attend a local church, but ought to support one anyway. We believe you should tithe locally, then if you can donate to our projects. What's evil about that? Considering the enormous cost of airing services, and competing for time slots on TV, the inclusion of requests for financial blessings to a ministry are not improper, as Paul wrote ahead for collections to be set aside.

I am very concerned over many ministries saying practically nothing about the gospel, spending all their time on air seeking donations. They need a better vision, get back to preaching like Billy Graham and other great preachers did. My favorite TV ministries speak at the end of their segment for maybe 30 seconds about the need for your financial involvement. It's only words, nobody twisting arms. Research the good ministries, tune in, help them grow. I really like being able to stay in various states on work contracts, tuning in to see what's happening at home.

They are not all evil as some propose. If they are with Jesus, Jesus says don't hinder them. You can always hit the ignore button. Again......in case you missed it....
Luke 9:49-50 (KJV) [SUP]49 [/SUP] And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. [SUP]50 [/SUP] And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#37
Perhaps this might help you... Paul reminds Titus to speak evil of NO MAN (Titus 1:2).
Then WHY are you doing it? Read.....
Is there anyone else you folks would like to go after and slander? Must be another full moon tonite. You want blood, I suggest that you bite and devour each other right here on CC, at least the one you slander can defend themselves.
The tongue is such an unruly evil that no man can tame. Whatever member of your body that offends you, perhaps you should cut it off (Mt 18:6-10)? Only a suggestion.
Perhaps you should cut off your keyboard, then..... Only a suggestion.:)
 

Word_Swordsman

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
48
#38
If more people would prayerfully study the bible for themselves, instead of relying on others to do it there would not be the oppritunity for this kind of false teaching, (2 Timothy 2:15) what is Timothy being told to divide the word of truth from?
any good teacher of truth would encourage folks to not only read and study for themselves but also to verify everything they themselves teach, (in scripture). these men and anyone who teaches false doctrine will surely give account before the one who called them, however so will we if we choose to remain ignorant and not study the words of life ourselves, so rather then pointing out the wrong of others in this matter, it seems more productive to encourage each other to search and seek the real truth, after all HE wants us to know it, His Spriit will surely lead and guide us into all truth (John 16:13) so just pray and seek what He has chosen to reveal to you, and leave the others to Him.
I support several ministries that are using the E-media heavily. All of them spend a lot of effort to get members to enter Bible studies, using your Bible, following study guides, teaching people how to study scriptures, with online support. I don't see many local churches doing anything like that, and know that's the pattern in America. It's no wonder the Pew polls confirm Gallop and others that Christians just don't study, few read the Bible at all, most only while at a church service.

Encouraging Bible study, teaching folks to use a concordance, look up the Hebrew and Greek, explore, makes it really hard to get away with false teaching. When you take part in studying one book in the N.T. a month, covering every verse, you will not be drawn into false doctrine. You have the time to check out every statement, unlike hearing a sermon on Sunday, then being able to critique it sufficiently.

I'm convinced hardly anyone here that's condemning those actually doing the gospel "out there" have invested time in actually studying what they teach, relying on YouTube for their 'revelations'.
 

Word_Swordsman

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
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#39
QUICK

Someone tell me in the next 5 minutes what Hagee says about the rapture. You'll probably have to stop complaining and go look it up. If you condemn the guy you ought to know what he believes to be sure you are not sinning against yourself.

Tick, tick, tick.
 

Word_Swordsman

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
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#40
TIME'S UP.

Does this mean even basic Bible beliefs are not known of Hagee? Yet he's accused of evil?

Answer...Pre-Trib. Does that make him evil? Most denominations believe that way. It's easily supported by scriptures.
 
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