Breaking the Christian Bubble

[cinder]

So in my efforts to win seoulsearch's zombie thread challenge (this is thread 6 so if they all are approved as meeting the criteria I've done it ), I scoured my brain for a lot of the questions I'm asking about life, faith, relating to people, etc. And then I have had to do my best to turn them into coherent writing on the internet. But one of the things I'm thinking about a lot is the separationist attitude of most Christians. We're exhorted to be "In but Not Of" the world but having grown up in church I've seen how we have Christian radio, Christian music, Christian websites of all varieties, and just about Christian everything. And for the most part we are encouraged to stick to the Christian stuff because it is a good environment and we won't be tempted.

Now there is definitely a place for these things, but to me its starting to seem like instead of being encouraged to get out and be in the world and minister to it, I've been encouraged to hole up in these little "separate but equal" zones of segregation from the world. And the other big problem I see with the Christianization of everything, is often the real hardships and difficulties of life get pushed aside. In the Christian zone, God is supposed to make everything better, if you're still having problems well it's a whole lot easier and more comfortable to blame you for not being a good enough Christian than it is to face up to the fact that you can be doing everything right (like Job) and still have issues.

So the two questions I want to hear people's thoughts on are:

1) How can we encourage a greater degree of honesty about real life in all its messiness within our Christian circles and communities? How can we learn to walk with hurting people instead of giving them a quick fix verse or principle that basically tells them you need to try harder?

2) How can we (or how do you because I know some of you do) get outside of our Christian safe zones and interact with the lost and hurting in the world? You know like Jesus did; that whole seeking and rescuing the lost bit. How do we make sure we don't lose our focus on God when doing this?



And before anyone misinterprets: I love CC and am grateful for it and in no way am I trying to criticize the site or the mods for existing as a specifically Christian entity.

 

[Lynx]

What's wrong with having christian stuff? I'm not going to start watching worldly shows and listening to secular music just so I can have something to talk about with the guys at work. (Besides there's too much christian music I haven't even HEARD yet... I don't have time for secular music.)

But yes, I understand what you're saying. Perhaps you could use other examples - do you keep your child at home and homeschool because public school is trying their all-out best to teach kids junk they don't have any business teaching them, or do you keep your child in public school to be a light there? (Hint: the answer depends on your estimation of your kid's ability to keep his head on straight.)

Here's a song that talks about this. Ignore the cheesy video part...

[video=youtube;3xRy8zx878w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xRy8zx878w[/video]

"Wait a minute
If we say we love it
Why are we not in it
Why do we run and hide"

 

[Lynx]

Okay the video was even more cheesy than I thought. Here's the lyrics if you want to spare your eyes.

AVALON - IN NOT OF

I hide me far away from trouble
The world outside me grows darker by the day
So I promise to stay here close beside You
Surely God would want His children safe

Then in reading, how my eyes were opened
I find that He is leading us out into the world
Into the middle of fallen saints and sinners
Where a little grace is needed most


Come take the light to darker parts
Share His truth with hardened hearts
We are not like the world, but we can love it
Come bring the hope to hopeless men
Until the lost are found in Him

He came to save the world so let us be
In it, not of it

Wait a minute
If we say we love them,
Why are we not in it?
Why we run and hide?

Entertain a stranger
Maybe entertain an angel
The danger is if our worlds don't collide


We've cursed the darkness far too long
We need to hold the candle high
We have to go and right the wrongs
We need to touch the world with love

​

 

[seoulsearch]

Hi Cinder,

Great topic and thank you for entering The Zombie Thread Challenge .

I love people in my Christian circle but I often feel more comfortable outside of it. If I find myself in a situation where too many people are putting on too many fake smiles, reciting too many "catch-all" passages and offering up too many pretty cliches, I will tell God, "Please help me, because I am about to spiritually vomit."

I enjoy hearing stories from all kinds of people, but often I am most comfortable with Christians who have had "colorful" pasts because I find them to be much more understanding and much less judgmental. Now of course, this isn't always the case and I know many wonderful people who, compared to me, could be seen as saints and they are truly wonderful, Godly people.

But for whatever reason, I have always been drawn to those others "outside the bubble". Many years ago I was in New Orleans for a school conference, and when we walked through the French Quarter, you could find every kind of club you can possibly imagine. Employees from these clubs were often standing outside, talking to and inviting potential customers to check a place out.

A group of Christians had set up a huge cross in the middle of the square with a large digital message board that repeatedly flashed messages of judgment, impending doom, and the fact that we were all going to hell. In contrast, there was a group of "female impersonators" (which is what they called themselves rather than drag queens) who were very friendly and chatting people up.

Guess which group I wanted to talk to? It certainly wasn't the group shouting, "Don't you know you're going to hell?!" I understand why people are attracted to the party culture, even though I've never been a part of it. When you're at the bar, you can talk about the things that are really on your mind or bothering you and no one will bat an eye.

When you take those same thoughts and struggles to the church, people usually aren't nearly as willing to listen, let alone offer real help. All they'll want to do is change you, which may be necessary, but they'll have a "good old Christian answer" without even listening to what you have to say first. Although I always have strong ties with Christian connections, I almost always find myself becoming friends with several people outside the box as well, usually at work. I've learned over time that one of the things God made me to do is to act as a kind of "translator" between groups of people, which is why I never seem to fully fit into one extreme or the other, but am always in the middle.

When I'm around extreme Christian circles, I get cravings to talk to people outside that world. I try my best to get to know them first and only after that (it can take minutes or years, depending on the situation), will ask them about their spiritual beliefs and if they'd like to go to church sometime. If they're not comfortable with the idea of going to my church, I offer to go to theirs, and if they don't have a church, I'll tell them to pick a place they'd like to visit and I'll go with them.

However, if I start spending an abundance of time talking to people who aren't Christians, I start craving more of God and then work to deepen my relationships within the Body of Christ.

This is why I often have problems with balance, but it's just how I've always been. I could never live in a 24/7 Christian bubble... When I do, I can literally feel my sanity draining away. Even when I'm around "all Christians, all the time", the thing that I'm really designed for is talking to people about their REAL problems or pasts. Many of the Christian friends I've had have been honest about things such as formerly working as dancers in strip clubs, paying for or accepting money for sex, addictions to hookups and pornography, drugs, or alcohol, choosing married people to date, etc. and I totally admire them for being so real about how they developed a relationship with Christ through all their problems.

Whether "in the bubble or out", the thing I'm always attracted to is who the person really is, whether they wear the badge of Christianity or not.

 

[Faithful_Fay]

1) How can we encourage a greater degree of honesty about real life in all its messiness within our Christian circles and communities? How can we learn to walk with hurting people instead of giving them a quick fix verse or principle that basically tells them you need to try harder?

It's been interesting watching my family come to God and learn to live in faith. The one factor that I've observed with their walk, and in retrospect mine as well, is an unwillingness to admit weakness or accept help because of not being perfect, or because they're afraid of judgement. Every other person seems to be doing so well, so it's scary to admit that you're faltering or need a hand. The one way that I've seen to get around that is to share my failures as well as triumphs. Being frank and open about struggles. It's amazing how much people open up when they see you as human and humble. You have to work to get beyond the superficial.

) How can we (or how do you because I know some of you do) get outside of our Christian safe zones and interact with the lost hurting in the world? You know like Jesus did; that whole seeking and rescuing the lost bit. How do we make sure we don't lose our focus on God when doing this?


And before anyone misinterprets: I love CC and am grateful for it and in no way am I trying to criticize the site or the mods for existing as a specifically Christian entity.

This is a tough one for me, but I think it has more to do with my personality. I'm more on the quiet side, so approaching people is a challenge. I've taken the route of having my actions speak louder than my words(or lack thereof) I do my best every day to help by being a kind person who asks if people need assistance and giving whenever I can. It's surprising the number of times people will ask you why you're so nice, or helpful, or kind, or even peaceful. That is usually my opportunity to transition into how my faith changed my life. It's surprising the number of people who are worn down and just want an encouraging word or a helping hand.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Cinder, I like your post. It's great you think like you do. It gives me hope that there are a few Christians that get out of ' the bubble ' , LOL !!!
Soulsearch, I concur that Christianizing everything can be draining.. been there / done that myself. As with anything in life, it really is all about balance.

 

[zeroturbulence]

"Please help me, because I am about to spiritually vomit."

I want to make this my new signature.

 

[Lynx]

Cinder, I like your post. It's great you think like you do. It gives me hope that there are a few Christians that get out of ' the bubble ' , LOL !!!
Soulsearch, I concur that Christianizing everything can be draining.. been there / done that myself. As with anything in life, it really is all about balance.

My question is what do you do with one of them in chat? Someone who seems to think the mic is for spouting religious platitudes non-stop... do you ask him to stop, go somewhere else, sit and endure it until he gets tired?

 

[Shouryu]

My question is what do you do with one of them in chat? Someone who seems to think the mic is for spouting religious platitudes non-stop... do you ask him to stop, go somewhere else, sit and endure it until he gets tired?

I can think of a few people like that. It's frustrating. They interrupt the CURRENT conversation, which is often NOT focused around spirituality (lets face it, we talk about food 75% of the time in Singles Chat), and try to hijack by PREACHING at us. Then they get offended if we don't jump on their topic right away.

1) It's cool that you want to talk about Christ. Nothing wrong that. But...we're already all Christians in there (95% of the time). We don't need the Gospel at that moment.
2) How is it so offensive that we don't want to talk about God's grace and goodness at THAT very moment with you? Maybe we already had a testimony and prayer session and did all that an hour before you got there. You're mad because all you got out of us was an "amen," when you interrupted a conversation already in progress?

Ever notice that we don't see Christ running up to random groups of strangers and interrupting them in the Gospels? Instead, He stands in a public place and preaches, and those who choose to listen then listen. OR, Christ is doing his thing, in a city gate, public place, synagogue, whatever, and people COME TO HIM to ask for the answers.

Not that we shouldn't be preaching the Gospel to all who would listen...but...it's a Christian fellowship site. It's the same thing as walking through a church's fellowship hall after service and preaching at everyone there. It just...it doesn't make sense. I dunno.

I think I need to visit an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting and ask those people if they've decided to stop drinking. Also, visit a Star Trek convention to talk to people about how they should really watch Star Trek, because it's so great.

 

[Olerica]

1) How can we encourage a greater degree of honesty about real life in all its messiness within our Christian circles and communities? How can we learn to walk with hurting people instead of giving them a quick fix verse or principle that basically tells them you need to try harder?

2) How can we (or how do you because I know some of you do) get outside of our Christian safe zones and interact with the lost and hurting in the world? You know like Jesus did; that whole seeking and rescuing the lost bit. How do we make sure we don't lose our focus on God when doing this?

1) transparency. I think owning our own struggle, owning that we don't have a panacea or an easy answer. We have an easily found answer, but rarely is the walking of that out simple. When we post scripture as an answer, as appropriate, we have to stop presenting it as "BOOM! This will solve all your ills". It's not that scripture isn't true or that Jesus isn't the answer; those things are so absolutely true... it's that space where our hearts ache and before the truth becomes real, where knowledge meets understanding.
It's ok for us to struggle, even appropriate sometimes. In my heartache, in my broken-ness, that's where I cry out to God for help and answers. My heart can hear the truth in the Bible.

2) Actually care about people. See them as the same as you, maybe different problems, maybe the same problems to different severity, but see each individual as the same as ME. Let our hearts be broken for them.
How do we reach out? We reach out where we are. If you don't have any messy, broken people in your life? Get out of your comfort zone. Open your eyes. That guy on the bus. That woman in the grocery store. Just start letting yourself see opportunities to minister to people. Sometimes that's just a smile and noticing someone and not being so far into your bubble that you can't be reached. Be where you are, see people. Notice the elderly woman who could use someone to ask about her day in church, or that single mom who has kids that are behaving in an unruly fashion (tell her how cute the kids are). Life is HARD. We can give grace and care to people... and in those moments... that's where ministry happens. I mean, Jesus asked a Samaritan woman for a drink of water, and he reveals his divinity to her - we can do similar. Just care enough to step out of our comfortable bubble.

 

[Zero_Cool]

My question is what do you do with one of them in chat? Someone who seems to think the mic is for spouting religious platitudes non-stop... do you ask him to stop, go somewhere else, sit and endure it until he gets tired?

Hey there Lynxy , please don't RAWR at me too loud ... I'm a new kid in town!

 

[Lynx]

Not RAWRing at you, agreeing with you.

But as the new kid, it's your job to sweep the floor after the meeting is over. Just so you know.

 

[mystikmind]

So in my efforts to win seoulsearch's zombie thread challenge (this is thread 6 so if they all are approved as meeting the criteria I've done it ), I scoured my brain for a lot of the questions I'm asking about life, faith, relating to people, etc. And then I have had to do my best to turn them into coherent writing on the internet. But one of the things I'm thinking about a lot is the separationist attitude of most Christians. We're exhorted to be "In but Not Of" the world but having grown up in church I've seen how we have Christian radio, Christian music, Christian websites of all varieties, and just about Christian everything. And for the most part we are encouraged to stick to the Christian stuff because it is a good environment and we won't be tempted.

Now there is definitely a place for these things, but to me its starting to seem like instead of being encouraged to get out and be in the world and minister to it, I've been encouraged to hole up in these little "separate but equal" zones of segregation from the world. And the other big problem I see with the Christianization of everything, is often the real hardships and difficulties of life get pushed aside. In the Christian zone, God is supposed to make everything better, if you're still having problems well it's a whole lot easier and more comfortable to blame you for not being a good enough Christian than it is to face up to the fact that you can be doing everything right (like Job) and still have issues.

So the two questions I want to hear people's thoughts on are:

1) How can we encourage a greater degree of honesty about real life in all its messiness within our Christian circles and communities? How can we learn to walk with hurting people instead of giving them a quick fix verse or principle that basically tells them you need to try harder?

2) How can we (or how do you because I know some of you do) get outside of our Christian safe zones and interact with the lost and hurting in the world? You know like Jesus did; that whole seeking and rescuing the lost bit. How do we make sure we don't lose our focus on God when doing this?



And before anyone misinterprets: I love CC and am grateful for it and in no way am I trying to criticize the site or the mods for existing as a specifically Christian entity.

The best word i can use to sum all this up is this one.... 'denial'.

Christians denying worldly things as an overreaction to their insecurities in their faith and their insecurities in how 'Christian' they appear to others.

They also live in denial waiting for God to tell them what to do, but God helps those who help themselves.

Christians also often live in denial over matters of healing, both physical and spiritual,,,, they want it so badly, they simply pretend it happened when really, they still need help!

And finally there is denial about faith, ,, wonderful beautiful people, but 'forcing' their 'performance' of having faith when deep down there are problems which they are living in denial of, because it does not fit the 'idea' of what it is to be Christian.

Denial.

 

[cinder]

My question is what do you do with one of them in chat? Someone who seems to think the mic is for spouting religious platitudes non-stop... do you ask him to stop, go somewhere else, sit and endure it until he gets tired?

That's when I become extremely grateful for my computer's mute button. And start pming with some of the cool people. Almost all of my best chat conversations happen in pm.

If they're being super annoying and I think the rest of the group feels the same, I have no problem telling them to shut up and get lost (ok I might be slightly nicer about it than that to start with). And if they get offended enough to leave that's solved the problem. Jesus offended the pharisees and called them stuff like a brood of vipers and white washed tombs so I don't feel too many qualms about offending people with over inflated spiritual egos.

 

[Lynx]

I was really hoping this thread would go farther.

Though we are in the world, we are not of it. Some places we should not go to reach people, and some things we ought not do. Where and what are they for you? For me, I know the answer. But for everyone the answer to this question will be different, for your weaknesses are different from mine. I want to hear yours, if you can talk about it.

Though we are not of the world, we are in it. Where can you go and what can you do to reach people? As with the previous question, your answer will be different from mine.

 

[cinder]

I was really hoping this thread would go farther.

Though we are in the world, we are not of it. Some places we should not go to reach people, and some things we ought not do. Where and what are they for you? For me, I know the answer. But for everyone the answer to this question will be different, for your weaknesses are different from mine. I want to hear yours, if you can talk about it.

Though we are not of the world, we are in it. Where can you go and what can you do to reach people? As with the previous question, your answer will be different from mine.

You and me both were hoping for a bit more discussion here. I will agree that we shouldn't join sinners in sin in order to understand them better or identify with them, but what I have seen being raised in the church is that we get so afraid of being tempted that we won't even be around sinners for fear that we might get a little contaminated. Again in all fairness, I grew up in the church and have had a pretty easy and clean life so I won't presume that I know how hard the struggle against temptation is for someone who used to engage in sin x and then goes back to a place where everyone is doing sin x. But then again, sometimes it seems that those who have been set free from something, are also the foremost advocates for seeing others set free from the same things.

As for me there probably aren't many places that I should avoid because I'd find going there to be overwhelmingly tempting, but there are a lot of places that I don't have any desire to go because I'd just be plain uncomfortable there and wouldn't want to be part of many of the activities that go on. There's also the concern that I tend to be a loner and while I reject the idea that all those horrible sinners outside the church are mainly out to compromise the Christians and attack their faith (most people really are fairly decent to strangers most of the time), it only takes a bad run in with one unscrupulous person to really mess a person up.

If I had a good answer to the where can I go and what can I do to reach people, well I probably wouldn't have started this thread.

 

[Misty77]

One of our barriers, I think, is Christianese. We tend to repeat a lot of jargon that either confuses people or just seems plain weird. "Hedge of protection" is a great one. It's great if we are different because our speech is cleaner or more uplifting, but not if we use an entirely different dictionary.

 

[seoulsearch]

One of our barriers, I think, is Christianese. We tend to repeat a lot of jargon that either confuses people or just seems plain weird. "Hedge of protection" is a great one. It's great if we are different because our speech is cleaner or more uplifting, but not if we use an entirely different dictionary.

I love this!!! Being part of the Christian community really is it's own culture and language, and we forget that the way we talk might be completely foreign to those who are looking in from the outside.

Shoot, even different denominations have problems understanding each other. If you're not used to hearing these kinds of phrases or terminology, it really is like hearing another language.

"Deliverance"--someone might honestly think we're talking about pizza.

"Slain in the Spirit"--a seance gone horribly wrong.

"Felt a Calling"--Really? God has a cell phone?

And numerous others. This is why I've often gone to different churches and I always choose to go to a different church than my family. It forces me to look at the entire church community as an outsider rather than a member and it helps me understand why God, religion, and churches are so scary for some people.

This is also why, when I invite someone to church, I offer to pick them up or meet them before the service so we can walk in together, sit together, etc. I also give them a dollar or two for the offering plate so they won't feel left out or awkward. I basically hold their hand through the entire thing, hoping they'll feel comfortable and relaxed enough to want to come back.

I would encourage anyone to try going to different churches as a bit of a social experiment. It's totally eye-opening, and will make you see unbelievers or people who have stopped going to church in a completely different light.

I've always found it interesting when I walk in and say, "Hi, it's my first time here, could you please direct me to the sanctuary?" Several churches I've been to look at me as if I'm a lost prostitute who has finally decided to change her heathen ways and come crawling back to the Lord. At another church, an entire swarm of people (probably 10 or more), including the pastor, literally surrounded me in greeting. I know they were trying to be friendly but boy, was that intimidating.

I have a good friend whom I've always talked with about conducting a social experiment with if she were single as I am. I would love to go to churches I've never been to before dressed different ways (wild hair, too much makeup, miniskirt vs. conservative suit vs. Amish-type clothing) to see how the people react. And if I could, I'd drag my friend along for moral support (we would both dress the same way each time, to see how people treated us.)

Maybe someday. Like when I'm 60, and walking into church rocking 80's mall hair and a leather miniskirt.

If that doesn't bring out some honest reactions, I don't know what would.

But the thing is, for many who didn't grow up in the church culture, that might be their own honest way of dressing, or even the only type of outfits they have. I knew a girl who invited her friend to one of my churches in the past and when the people came up to shake her hand, they visibly pulled away when they saw tattoos on her arms. This really made me sad and angry at the same time.

I'm always seen as this very plain, boring, good-two shoes person but in my heart, and I feel blessed to be able to talk to a wide variety of people, but my heart always longs for those who are "outside the norm". I always notice the people with the most tattoos, earrings, piercings... alternative or counter-culture-type looks or lives... because I always have this urge to go up to them and hug them and tell them, "Come with me, I know a Place where you can fit in." My heart is always longing for the underdogs and those who feel they're always on the outside of "normal" society.

Except that in a way I would be lying to them, because finding a church that truly accepts people the way they are is pretty much impossible.

 

[cinder]

I love this!!! Being part of the Christian community really is it's own culture and language, and we forget that the way we talk might be completely foreign to those who are looking in from the outside.

This is also why, when I invite someone to church, I offer to pick them up or meet them before the service so we can walk in together, sit together, etc. I also give them a dollar or two for the offering plate so they won't feel left out or awkward. I basically hold their hand through the entire thing, hoping they'll feel comfortable and relaxed enough to want to come back.

I would encourage anyone to try going to different churches as a bit of a social experiment. It's totally eye-opening, and will make you see unbelievers or people who have stopped going to church in a completely different light.

I've always found it interesting when I walk in and say, "Hi, it's my first time here, could you please direct me to the sanctuary?" Several churches I've been to look at me as if I'm a lost prostitute who has finally decided to change her heathen ways and come crawling back to the Lord. At another church, an entire swarm of people (probably 10 or more), including the pastor, literally surrounded me in greeting. I know they were trying to be friendly but boy, was that intimidating.

I'm always seen as this very plain, boring, good-two shoes person but in my heart, and I feel blessed to be able to talk to a wide variety of people, but my heart always longs for those who are "outside the norm". I always notice the people with the most tattoos, earrings, piercings... alternative or counter-culture-type looks or lives... because I always have this urge to go up to them and hug them and tell them, "Come with me, I know a Place where you can fit in." My heart is always longing for the underdogs and those who feel they're always on the outside of "normal" society.

Except that in a way I would be lying to them, because finding a church that truly accepts people the way they are is pretty much impossible.

And this is why the whole just invite people to church thing doesn't work so well for me either. So much to explain and try to help people understand, and depending on the church a potentially dubious reception for my friend. Seriously I would be more likely to invite someone to the small group I attend than to Sunday morning church service (well if I currently had a small group at least, but back when I did that was how I felt).

 

[PeterJens]

Being real, emotionally honest, vulnerable and taking risks. I want to use one word, "love".
This is the gospel but also this is hollywood, parenting, music, books, films, preachers etc.
Slushy, cute, soft focus, ahhhhh. It is not often courage, walking to your death for a cause, being honest in the midst of lies, taking slander and not responding but being humble, suffering the proud and forgiving those who wrong you.

I have known christians who do not see the reality going on alongside them, yet they wonder how superficial it all is. If you knew the real struggles and failures people have, what raises their spirits and what depression, loneliness can completely isolate and freeze them, but this is hidden, bouncing along as if everything is fine, and there are no real issues because why else are their all smiles and nice polite hellos but often little real contact.

So the bubble can exist where things appear one way but in reality they are very different.