How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

just-us-2 · May 15, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

Dayo said:

Yes, I have to agree with you on that. When I was a child we learned it in school as well as at home, everybody knew it and didn't hesitate to remind someone who seemed to have momentarily forgotten it. That was a long time ago though and things have changed.
Thanks for your input!

just-me · May 15, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

Why are we not sincerely looking to Paul for an example as He instructed us? He talks of himself and exhorts us to follow suit. I see many good suggestions, and good thoughts, but this is getting right down to the nitty gritty when it comes to treating those that we claim are under the law.

"Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me." 1 Corinthians 4:16

"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." 1 Corinthians 11:1

"Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample." Philippians 3:17

So the rhetorical question is "how did Paul approach those people that were "under the law?" How should we minister to those who we see that are professing Jews, who are "under the law," who are without the law, and to the weak?

1 Corinthians 9:19-22
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
[SUP]21 [/SUP]To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, (Paul had both) but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

As we can see, Paul wasn't under the law, but was not without it so he could properly enlighten. That is important when ministering to others.

weakness · May 15, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

I think it important to remember ,to me the heart of the gospel. The law is written on our hearts now, and by the Spirit dwelling within, have a new life. We, are a law unto ourselves because the law giver abides in us.We fulfill the law and keep it. This said I know we all fall short at times but we have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ the righteous.

ArtsieSteph · May 15, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

As someone who has had serious issues with being legalistic, sometimes the best thing to do is just pray for the person and have as much mercy as you can. If it had been me and someone saw I was being legalistic, and was like "We're by grace and not law." I would have answered "Exactly!" It's that sometimes we don't realize we can get legalistic about things that aren't necessarily liturgical or anything.

For me, being OCD, it became sort of a weird scenario where everything I did was good or bad. And it's really hard to get out of that funk. For me it was actual mental issues so I had to take pills. But for a normal person who can sort of calm down and discern, it's more knowing that God loves them, and knows what they are going through. He isn't judging from the outside like others do, He sees all the good too!

On the outside I think we need to have as much mercy for the people as possible. They are pushing themselves into the ground inwardly as it is, we need to let them know God is gonna hold them if and when they do crack under their own pressure.

just-me · May 15, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

weakness said:

I was talking with a person the other day about the "turning of the other cheek" as Jesus taught. He said that the law was written on his heart via the Holy Spirit. He said Jesus changed the law because the "eye for an eye" thing didn't apply to the law of Christ. I conveyed the reality of the original law in relationship to the sermon on the mount, showing the spiritual reality that was no different than the original. He didn't have a clue what the original law was actually saying, and told me that if we were to abide by the old law that we would just keep destroying one another, back and forth. This proved to me that he wasn't enlightened by the Holy Spirit, even though he claimed he was. What was the ministry that this man adhered to? He was surely without the law, telling me that I was "under the law" because I believe as Paul. See Acts 24:14

If we don't know the law that God gave to Israel (Paul being of the tribe of Benjamin), how are we to act toward people who are under the law, and restore them to believing in Christ Jesus. After all, Paul said that the law is the schoolmaster that leads to Christ. If we reject this, our ministry is extremely limited, and we render ourselves incapable of ministering to those that we accuse of being under the law. With this in mind, we have no right to make that judgment as Paul did. As Paul quoted of himself, he was under the law of Christ, but wasn't without the law. If we reject it, we don't have it to use. If we accuse others of what we don't have, we become a hypocrite in the eyes of those who we are accusing who do have it. Therefore accusations don't work unless you can understand what the other person believes, even if we might all know what they believe is wrong.

atwhatcost · May 15, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

just-me said:

Hm. How about that? I disagree, but not for the reason you're thinking.

So Saul was this super-sized Pharisee. He was weaned on the law, could have probably beaten John Gill, Adam Clarke, and Francis Schaeffer in debates about the law by the time he hit 10, and then he really learned the law.

According to that law as Saul knew it, he had all rights to stone Stephen to death, and sure enough he participated. (The cloak holding thing was an important aspect of the law. He wasn't merely the cloak room clerk in that affair. It was big that he held the cloaks.)

So a few days later, he's traveling to the next town to stone the next heretic, and BAM! Big shiny light hits him - literally, in his case. He's blinded by the light in all senses of that phrase, and stuck where God will have him be until God gets through to him.

Did he give up on that law? Pfffft. (That's No, in Philly sarcastic. lol) BUT, did he grow? Yes, and not like that Bam/Shiny Light event happened. He grew both slowly and quickly, because God forced growth on him. Paul never hit perfection on this earth. He merely did better than most of us, but the cost was high. I know of two stints in prison, at least one capsized boat, and a sickness so grave many didn't think he'd survive. God wasn't doing that to make his life miserable... okay, he was, but that wasn't the purpose of all that. He needed Paul to God-up (as compared to man-up) in a hurry, so he could write what to do for others.

So, we're looking at what Paul wrote for directions, and they are, sort of, but they don't tell the full path. It doesn't show how he felt when he was in prision. It doesn't show how he felt when he washed on shore. It doesn't tell how his jailers treated him daily (much.)

So we're busy telling people to get where Paul got.

It just struck me how wrong that is. Why are we telling others what to do?

Splinter meet log. Have you ever had something block your eyesight? I get floaters. Small floaters are enough to distract me from seeing what I originally was trying to look at. Hubby had a whopper block his eye. A blood vessel broke in the back of his eye (which pointed to high blood pressure, and would have been a stroke if it had hit any other blood vessel in his head), and he couldn't see what he was looking at, just what was around what he was looking at. So, we're busy trying to dislodge logs from other's eyes while ignoring the obvious -- our own splinter getting in our way.

Isn't the obvious, "How should I be?" Not "How should you treat me?"

I admit, I do the same thing too. I found this thread because a thread I started with the same kind of purpose backfired on me. I wanted to see someone else succeed, since I didn't.

I just figured out, I cannot succeed by looking to others for answers. I can only succeed if I look to God and trust him to Paul me. (That is, do to me what he did to Paul over a long period of time.)

So, I'm a bit slow on the uptake, but I just realized, (gee, you don't think God as anything to do with this do you?), it's not my duty to tell others how to act or react. It's my duty to make sure I'm acting and reacting in the way God wants me to. And that's not an easy trip.

Which, after all, was Paul's bottom line. That is always what he was saying -- we, individually, moment by moment, in all things, must act and react like God by letting him act through us. We as in me. For each one of us that is a command to remove the splinter from our own eye. Not notify others of what we perceive is a log in theirs. It might not even exist, since we can't see because of our own splinter.

Maybe it's time to assume that, instead of assume others have to treat us right. (Now that's going to be a Pauline trip of a lifetime. lol)

just-me · May 15, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

Paul's the example he gives of himself in God given inspired scriptures. I just presented Paul to others atwhatcost. Not myself. God bless you so you can see Paul, Jesus, and His Father's Holy Spirit only in all this. You have a good handle on what Paul suffered for Christ's sake. I commend you for that.

fredjames · May 17, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

atwhatcost said:

And you are doing the 'same', therefore as being 'spiteful' as well too your 'self'. And henceforth please include the same as well, 'spitefulness' of Apostle Paul to the Galatians church addressing an 'issue' in his 'epistle' to them.

Are you sure you are a just and fair 'judge'?

So where and when do you draw the 'line' from being a 'busybody' and a false 'judge' between both?

What 'arrogance' in 'ignorance', unwise believer of only being, 'fuel to the fire' or even a 'spark'. ?

As it is written;

"You deserve to suffer if you are an adulterer, 'a busybody' or a murderer."

May GOD forgive you and bless you in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

fredjames · May 17, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

atwhatcost said:

You claim to be very sure about your 'self/selves' and 'me' in your 'testimony', as though the Kingdom of GOD is circling around you and your supporting friends and yous have already all the 'answers' about everything and everyone.

'i am one of the people you was/were talking about'?

Please allow me to 'prophesy' who 'yous' are as a group in 'witnessing' GOD's Word, as reminder and stir up of memory in yous 'ignorance' faith to repent to GOD first?

Gifted 'proud' and 'braggers' of the Word of GOD, living in 'lukewarm' lifestyle and in the state of 'lawlessness' in the Kingdom of GOD and witnessing.

Thank you very much 'judge judy' and GOD bless you in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

atwhatcost · May 17, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

fredjames said:

LOL Yes, I'm sure. Given you're in defense mode now and attacking ad nauseum on more than one person by now, yes. I'm sure.

I do get a kick out how people twist God's word to their will, and then pretend to disagree is disagreeing with God. It's not. It's disagreeing from you, because you're still spiteful. Now you got cocky too.

crossnote · May 17, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

fredjames said:

Your response is incoherent and really means nothing to me. You came on with an attack against me and then raise the Agape Flag as well as the "God Bless you" routine?

fredjames · May 18, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

They may not be meaningful to 'yous' now and i understand, but they will be, when 'yous' continue without repentance and when be 'shipwrecked' later.

'Yous pride in assurance to your Salvation, is one's 'lawlessness' and downfall from Grace, and the Truth's submission and obedience to the written New Covenant/Testament GOD's Word/CHRIST.

GOD in is HIS Word did not allow nor appoint all to become as 'teachers', especially 'women'.

Who is the 'troublemaker' and asking for 'trouble' in the period of Grace and against the Grace and Truth written as our New Covenant/Testament, men and women for our submission and obedience in 'abiding' and in 'practices' to them.

There is something 'disturbing in my spirit' about 'yous' who have formed as a group and disregarding others, even 'a man of GOD' and that is why i as witness, am guided to 'respond' in prophesy, as 'a reminder' and 'a stir up of memory' for repentance.

Period.......................................................

just-me · May 18, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

This attitude is not one that I read about in the Bible that Jesus Christ and also Paul endorse. This thread died 2 days ago, and it's resurrected with this kind of talk. This is without provocation as most will see. Fred, you have been marked, but not unjustly. This rhetoric clearly causes division amongst the troops.

fredjames said:

Then you finally get the response you are wanting so you can carry on with the division that you started. Who's behind this???? What spirit is your motivation? Shame shame.

michael56 · May 18, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

If christians want to be under the law unto. Righteousness in effect, in my experience I would say discuss the subject once with them but bo more. They are likely from what I have experienced to be cynical, mocking and accuse you of speaking of a licence to sin

oldthennew · May 18, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

where ever we are in this most unique journey that our Heavenly Father has placed us on,
it is for sure that we are all on our own page at this moment in our lives and if our hearts are sincere,
they will begin to fill-up with His Holy knowledge -(at our own pace) 'here-a-little-there-a-little',
and we have the assurance that our King will eventually lead us into His complete wisdom and understanding -
when and where and how He decides -
to take offence or to even feel jealousy of another who is seeking as we are is so very unkind.

as far as each of us drawing on responses that may be unkind or hurtful in our mis-understanding of others -
on where their hearts and minds happen to be at this point in their journeys/lives, how can we not love them
for the mere fact that our Heavenly Fathers is the object of their hearts, for this how each of us must learn -
and He is calling each of us for the greatest Love and Reason imaginable to mankind.

just-us-2 · May 18, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

oldthennew said:

I don't disagree with you, but I do believe we (Christians) should have a more proactive mindset these last days than to just wait to be enlightened 'here-a-little-there-a-little'. The time is getting so short and believers are not going to get zapped out of this world before we see real tribulation. And if ever there was a time that we should be putting much effort into edifying one another and teaching the babes in Christ the TRUTH and I mean ALL of the Word of God as TRUTH, it is now.

seed_time_harvest · May 18, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

michael56 said:

I agree except I think once is not going to be enough for everyone.

just-me · May 18, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

seed_time_harvest said:

I keep referring to what Paul did, but it seems that people want to side step this fact, and somehow seemingly seem to avoid it when I read through this thread. I'll quote his words again.

1 Corinthians 9:19-22
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
[SUP]21 [/SUP]To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, (Paul had both) but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

It seems that Paul is saying he related to what others believe or don't believe. How can this be done in our own lives rather than be consistently critical of others that don't believe as we do. Do we not need to know the law in order to win those that are under it?

crossnote · May 18, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

fredjames said:

They may not be meaningful to 'yous' now and i understand, but they will be, when 'yous' continue without repentance and when be 'shipwrecked' later.

'Yous pride in assurance to your Salvation, is one's 'lawlessness' and downfall from Grace, and the Truth's submission and obedience to the written New Covenant/Testament GOD's Word/CHRIST.

GOD in is HIS Word did not allow nor appoint all to become as 'teachers', especially 'women'.

Who is the 'troublemaker' and asking for 'trouble' in the period of Grace and against the Grace and Truth written as our New Covenant/Testament, men and women for our submission and obedience in 'abiding' and in 'practices' to them.

There is something 'disturbing in my spirit' about 'yous' who have formed as a group and disregarding others, even 'a man of GOD' and that is why i as witness, am guided to 'respond' in prophesy, as 'a reminder' and 'a stir up of memory' for repentance.

Period.......................................................

I'm sorry you do not have full assurance of your salvation...and yes, repentance is a daily occurrence in my life.

oldthennew · May 18, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

just-us-2 said:

=============================================================
just-us-2,

we really appreciate your zeal in desiring to help others and teach others the Word and the principles of
Godly Wisdom.
we speak from experience and our opinion of how our Father has worked with us;
but we certainly understand that it does not exclude God working with others in a dis-similar manner.

if we may give you an example, 'our Father worked with my hubby for (3) years on his weakness of
bitterness and anger'- he was so zealous to overcome this, but even so, it took hours and months for him
to overcome this fleshly and emotional weakness! - even with all of his diligent work, (he could NOT)
over-come this by himself without our Father's intervention.

towards the end of this 'carnal-obstacle', our Father stepped-in and put (two-words) into my husbands mind -
(it's-over)! and so it was, and my husband and I were astonished!!!
three years of my husband's WORK, 'required' to over-come,,,,but only TWO-WORDS to finish it,

as it is written:
'The Author and Finisher of our Faith' -

so, our experience has been, (no matter how much we desire to share and teach the principles of God)
IF there is a 'carnal-emotional-obstacle' or and obstacle of Bible mis-interpretation, we will never be able to teach
past the obstacle,,,,, this is what the Apostle Paul was to diligently trying to teach us when he told us that
he was becoming All things to All men, - he wasn't telling us that he was putting himself UNDER the LAW -
he wasn't putting himself OUTSIDE of the Law, he was HUMBLING himself, exactly as Christ gave up His heavenly
position of King of Kings and became a 'mere man'!!!!

so, Paul understood where each and everyone of these people were coming from,
whether in-the-Law, or outside-of-the-Law!

in short, Paul came-down to their level, (even though today he would be considered a Rhodes-Scholar) in order to WIN as many as possible to his Lord and Master, Jesus Christ.

the WINNING, that's just the beginning - the OVER-COMING in SPIRITUAL CHARACTER,
takes years and experience,
the bottom line is - Christ will NOT send a child to do SPIRITUAL BATTLE, He sends the well-seasoned warrior,
with a goodly amount of years under their precious belts.

How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

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