Could signs of worldwide revival be a deception?

[dcontroversal]

The second temple which was STILL STANDING when Jesus was speaking those words. Jesus never says it's a DIFFERENT temple then the one that is STILL STANDING. The onus is ON YOU to show that Jesus is TALKING about a THIRD temple built by human hands and NOT the temple that was still standing.

What part of the following statement do you find me saying there is a third temple?

What is Jesus speaking of when he and Daniel speak of the Abomination that maketh desolate stand in the HOLY PLACE (the image of the beast)? Where is the HOLY PLACE that he is speaking of?

Not to mention the fact that the statement about the Abomination is made after the signs of the wars and rumors of wars, nation against nation and pay attention to verse 8 and all these being the beginning of sorrows followed by

vs. 10 THEN
vs. 11 AND
vs. 12 AND
vs. 13 AND<--the Gospel preached in all THE WORLD<----ANGELA's proof text that the end is not here yet
vs. 14 WHEN YOU shall see the abomination<----spoken to the disciples as members of a true N.T. church and applicable in any age or time frame unto church members or disciples of Christ!

Grammatically and following the order of the words...your view doesn't seem to jive with it being Titus and the Romans in 70 A.D.

 

[SarahM777]

Where does Jesus say anywhere in this passage that the temple that was standing as going to be destroyed andthen a third will be built and then the abomination of desolation takes place?

Matthew 24

24 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. [SUP]2 [/SUP]“Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”
[SUP]3 [/SUP]As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. [SUP]6 [/SUP]You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. [SUP]8 [/SUP]All these are the beginning of birth pains.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. [SUP]10 [/SUP]At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, [SUP]11 [/SUP]and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, [SUP]13 [/SUP]but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
[SUP]15[/SUP]“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[SUP][a][/SUP] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— [SUP]16 [/SUP]then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. [SUP]19 [/SUP]How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! [SUP]20 [/SUP]Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

Where is the third temple spoken of?

 

[Chica]

Click on my name on this post or any post and go to my current blogs and it is found there.....and what formats to open it in.

Thanks, got it in Word, my puter handles that well.

 

[yaright]

You're way over there. ---------------------------------------------------->
<--------------------------------------------------------I'm way over here.

Please back up some.

What worldwide revival? I remember no such thing in the Bible. What worldwide peace? I distinctly remember Jesus saying there will be wars and rumor of wars, but that's not his sign, so I assumed there would always be war until Christ return. Even then, he's destroying this heaven and earth, so this earth never sees peace.

You're going to have to back up big time, because I don't get any of this.

I see that you do understand that there can be no peace; and there is no good unless we work good out of the day. Those we see today in Christ, of them are some who want Jesus to rule in this world as King. This could only happen if just before Christ's ministry Satan's offer (temptation) to Jesus was under Satan's authority and all the kingdoms of this world. Jesus came to rule (revealing the temptation), but not in this world that belongs to Satan. Jesus has come to deliver (redeem) those who hear the calling, repent and follow Him on a path that leads to the cross. The path Jesus walked was not random; with every step Jesus took, every direction He went, everything He spoke, every thing that was done to Him...,all of these things were and are the fulfillment of law and words of the prophets. None of these things could be left undone, and the very reason Jesus spoke and said, "It is finished"

 

[yaright]

What part of the following statement do you find me saying there is a third temple?

What is Jesus speaking of when he and Daniel speak of the Abomination that maketh desolate stand in the HOLY PLACE (the image of the beast)? Where is the HOLY PLACE that he is speaking of?

Not to mention the fact that the statement about the Abomination is made after the signs of the wars and rumors of wars, nation against nation and pay attention to verse 8 and all these being the beginning of sorrows followed by

vs. 10 THEN
vs. 11 AND
vs. 12 AND
vs. 13 AND<--the Gospel preached in all THE WORLD<----ANGELA's proof text that the end is not here yet
vs. 14 WHEN YOU shall see the abomination<----spoken to the disciples as members of a true N.T. church and applicable in any age or time frame unto church members or disciples of Christ!

Grammatically and following the order of the words...your view doesn't seem to jive with it being Titus and the Romans in 70 A.D.

This things we see are the image of these we cannot see; defining things of the flesh and things of the Spirit, in that order. Arguing things the first disciples said is a little beyond my understanding. But using this same key to open understanding, I see the temple designed by God; and the temple built and destroyed by men. And the temple partially standing now was not built according to God's design. When Jesus said tear this temple down and I will build another in three days was and is the failed temple we see and the everlasting temple built from within. What many do not know is that every image of God's design has a spiritual meaning. On the entry-ways of the temple designed by God were palm trees engraved. When you walk across a desert (a desolate place), and you begin to thirst; and off in the distance you see palm trees in the desert, what comes to your mind? When you walk through the palm trees you find an oasis of refreshing water. So too, is the design of God's temple. What men have built and torn down, did not have this value in there hearts; The Temple Jesus builds is within, and each of us then are known as living stones.

 

[popeye]

I think this verse debunks a pretrib rapture, otherwise the beast would have no one to make war against during that time. Maybe this doctrine has taken such a hold that some who claim salvation don't care because they will escape before this all begins. If a pretib rapture will take place, I wonder how many that will be left behind will ask, and converse with others, "why weren't we told it would be this way?" The answer will probably be, "could be they just weren't concerned."

"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations." Revelation 13:7

Then you have no idea what we believe.
Rev 13;7 is those left behind after the rapture.

You litterally have to remove the watching and waiting dimension to make your condescending remarks of the wimps you believe are those same ones watching and waiting.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

Im really not trying to be argumentative but my gut tells me that no one gets outa this life alive....and I've heard pretty convincing arguments for at least the most known interpretations of the rapture. It's just not a hill that's important for me to die on.

If you read the statements Jesus makes in Rev 2 and 3, there are indications you might be right.

 

[popeye]

As I have said so many times before - no rapture in the Bible, except the Latin Vulgate.

"Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord." 1 Thess. 4:17 ESV

"ἔπειτα ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα· καὶ οὕτως πάντοτε σὺν κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα." 1 Thess. 4:17 Greek

Jesus returns only once! The word ἀπάντησιν or apantasin means "meeting" but a little bit more! The word had a technical meaning in the Hellenistic world related to the visits of dignitaries to cities where the visitor would be formally met by the citizens or a deputation and then ceremonially escort him back to the city.

Apantasin only occurs two other places in Scripture - Acts 28:15 (when Paul was met and escorted back to Rome) and Matt 25:6 where the virgins come out to meet the bridegroom and are escort him inside.

The really weird thing about the way apantasin is translated, is in every version I checked, it is translated as an infinitive. It does not have the right ending to say "to meet" and in fact is the accusative case of the noun apantasis.

Finally, good hermeneutics requires that in order to form a doctrine such as "the rapture" in which Jesus meets us in the air and takes us to heaven (not in this verse at all!) that it be backed up in other places in Scripture. Plus, Revelation 20 is the only place a millennium is mentioned, in the most symbolic book in the whole Bible. Therefore, highly symbolic language, in that chapter!

So no rapture and no millennium is my vote!

Not biblical unless we take the grand canyon jump alongside you.

I for one am not willing to Jettison the bride/groom dimension or the scene in heaven,or the times of the gentiles fulfilled,or the promise of Jesus concerning his disciples,or the 4 parts to the harvest.

The greatest event next to happen is the gathering of the bride which is mat 25.

I would venture 75% of the body of christ is oblivious to this huge,huge event.

Last days deception.

 

[just-me]

This things we see are the image of these we cannot see; defining things of the flesh and things of the Spirit, in that order. Arguing things the first disciples said is a little beyond my understanding. But using this same key to open understanding, I see the temple designed by God; and the temple built and destroyed by men. And the temple partially standing now was not built according to God's design. When Jesus said tear this temple down and I will build another in three days was and is the failed temple we see and the everlasting temple built from within. What many do not know is that every image of God's design has a spiritual meaning. On the entry-ways of the temple designed by God were palm trees engraved. When you walk across a desert (a desolate place), and you begin to thirst; and off in the distance you see palm trees in the desert, what comes to your mind? When you walk through the palm trees you find an oasis of refreshing water. So too, is the design of God's temple. What men have built and torn down, did not have this value in there hearts; The Temple Jesus builds is within, and each of us then are known as living stones.

I totally agree with you. In respect to this day's church, my thoughts are that they (being the church of today) are anticipating Christ's return in a way that will actually be deceptive, thereby complementing Satan's purpose and agenda. I have mentioned the the scripture that says judgment begins in the house of God. (1 Peter 4:17) What is the end result if that judgment is not according to God's Word? That is in reference to the church of Christ.

We have expectations ministered to us that very well could lead us to a total deception. The adversary attacks the church first, enabling him to accomplish the rest of his destructive agenda to the rest of the world. It's always been that way. Through the Pharisees he distorts God's word, and now, through a great majority of the church he demands to just get rid of certain scriptures that Jesus used on him during the 40 days Jesus was temped by him in the wilderness.

Satan demands chaos throughout the world, just like before the flood during Noah's day. What do we see today? Chaos, killing, unrest, false hope, and certain parts of the Bible purposefully taught against by the church, using Christ Himself as an excuse to make void the power of God's word.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

NOt at all, you still have the Jews and there will still be a chance for people to pick sides, choose the mark or reject it and cry out to the true God.

Being raptured out will be a clincher for many people, if they know someone and "poof" they are gone, then that will bring more people to accept God as real.

I cannot see that, because the Bible says that despite all the judgements of the tribulation period men will still have hardened hearts and refuse to repent. Some super secret rapture is not going to change minds.

If there is such a thing as a rapture, then it will be explained away as mass Alien abduction or some other foolishness.

 

[popeye]

Thanks DC, I cannot wrap my head around some super secret rapture. A rapture is not explained in the Bible either and a rapture completely refutes what Jesus said in Rev 2 and 3.

10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.
(from the very chapter you use to "refute" the gathering of the bride)

Imagine that? the bride is removed. HMMMMM

Rev 3 contains the main harvest. (that happens after 1st fruits)
That would be liviticus.I realize no anti-pretribs ever look at the bride and harvest verses.

BTW,reconcile this promise, with the removal of protection,so the AC can finish off the saints.
They ALL DIE. It is written ALL THOSE W/O THE MARK DIE.
............so the OVERCOMMERS are those ones martyred.

 

[popeye]

I totally agree with you. In respect to this day's church, my thoughts are that they (being the church of today) are anticipating Christ's return in a way that will actually be deceptive, thereby complementing Satan's purpose and agenda. I have mentioned the the scripture that says judgment begins in the house of God. (1 Peter 4:17) What is the end result if that judgment is not according to God's Word? That is in reference to the church of Christ.

We have expectations ministered to us that very well could lead us to a total deception. The adversary attacks the church first, enabling him to accomplish the rest of his destructive agenda to the rest of the world. It's always been that way. Through the Pharisees he distorts God's word, and now, through a great majority of the church he demands to just get rid of certain scriptures that Jesus used on him during the 40 days Jesus was temped by him in the wilderness.

Satan demands chaos throughout the world, just like before the flood during Noah's day. What do we see today? Chaos, killing, unrest, false hope, and certain parts of the Bible purposefully taught against by the church, using Christ Himself as an excuse to make void the power of God's word.

..........and certain parts of the Bible purposefully taught against by the church,...........

That would be the pretrib rapture. that teaching is amost TOTALLY removed from the pulpit.

Makes sense,that the last days deception would include a departure from any and all admonition to do/be the 5 wise virgins.

 

[popeye]

I cannot see that, because the Bible says that despite all the judgements of the tribulation period men will still have hardened hearts and refuse to repent. Some super secret rapture is not going to change minds.

If there is such a thing as a rapture, then it will be explained away as mass Alien abduction or some other foolishness.

Doesn't matter. Those that are lost at the rapture will later comfort themselves by saying "Wow,we did the right thing when we took the mark.Look at those crazy christians loosing their heads.Glad we had enough sense to take a little meanigless mark"

Sold out to the devil.

Those 5 foolish will know EXACTLY what happened.

 

[popeye]

[h=2]Could signs of worldwide revival be a deception?[/h]

Revival would be God showing up.
God is not a deceiver

 

[PeterJens]

The biggest church group that is growing in the world is the prosperity gospel. It is not the gospel of Jesus but a gospel which calls poverty evil, and prosperity a blessing.

Only in a technological world where machines can change life for almost everybody could this gospel even exist, because it is the moving from rural communities which rely on farming to service societies which rely on providing technological support to each other does the wealth come. These false teachers link this prosperity to God and faith, when it is just modern technology. And where the societies are changing most, this message is being taken up, as a right. But it is foolishness, self delusion and sin.

The "believers" are not saved by faith and repentance, but by church membership and listening to worldly success preaching, and claiming a right to dominate and rule. Could this turn to war and violence? The words are there if you want to read it, but I do not think at present it is going that way, but with all this preaching about the spiritual realm, put Satan in with real spiritual fireworks, the world is ripe for the setting.

 

[just-me]

Then you have no idea what we believe.
Rev 13;7 is those left behind after the rapture.

You litterally have to remove the watching and waiting dimension to make your condescending remarks of the wimps you believe are those same ones watching and waiting.

So could you possibly be insinuating we are to reject the signs Jesus gave to His "wimpy" disciples when they ask Him when would be the sign of His coming? I'll just quote a few verses from Matthew 24, accompanied with a few verses from other prophecies.

Verse 3b "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

Then Jesus describes many things to watch for that lead up to His return.

13. "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

The end of what? some may ask. Then He finally tells them about the tribulation that is more horrible than anything the world has ever experienced before. Jesus says that at the ending of this great tribulation salvation awaits those who make it through.

21. "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

So what happens at the end of that? Jesus completes His descriptions of what to watch for and the signs of His coming.

[SUP]29 [/SUP]Immediately "after" the tribulation of "those days" shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

"If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the Lord thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:" Deuteronomy 30:4
"Hear the word of the Lord, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock." Jeremiah 31:10
"Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the Lord: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the Lord." Zechariah 2:6
"And I will sow them among the people: and they shall remember me in far countries; and they shall live with their children, and turn again." Zechariah 10:9

Matthew 24:32-33
[SUP]33 [/SUP]So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Verily I say unto you, This generation ("this tribe" according to the Aramaic) shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

I don't think God wants us to believe a separation between the Jews from the Gentiles on this matter, and I clearly see a chronology of events listed. The Jews who are now dead cannot be resurrected after this said tribulation for "the dead in Christ shall rise first:" 1 Thessalonians 4:16b

 

[Joshua_Generation]

I believe he asks a good question I was going to ask the same thing because Satan is a liar, he doesnt abide in the truth (in otherwords) or look at the nature of a lying spirit its not truthful by nature of what it is. See what I mean?

No, I do not see what you mean, please clarify, because I am not sure what you are asking here or what cross was. The only statement I am making that you guys seem to want to question is that the term antichrist is not found in the book of Revelation and only in 1 John 1 & 2. Many like cross brush it off as semantics, but it is not.

The spirit of antichrist states Jesus did not come in the flesh. Satan and his demons know Jesus came in the flesh, why do you think the beast will be flesh and blood? Could it be that the world will see this man as a Savior or even a false Jesus Christ?
The world will see the beast as a savior, a man of peace, a pseudo messiah. God and Christians will see him as a beast feeding on the blood of others. What happens when he comes to power and someone says, hey now this is the antichrist and he the beast picks up a Bible and reads 1 John 1 and 2 and says, children, relax, for I have come in the flesh! I am not the antichrist because the Bible says, I would only come in the flesh and I have and I have also been healed.

That my freind, is the dividing point. I really think many Christians refuse to think that Satan and his forces are this devious or spend much time thinking about it. Satan used the Word of God against Jesus and they know he came in the flesh.

The reason many Christians refuse to think about these things is that they believe they will not be here to deal with it, because they will be taken in the rapture. If that is true then I have to ask, why did Jesus, Peter, Jude, Paul and many others consistently and without fail warn us how to discern between the real Jesus and the fake one/s?

Matt 24.23-26
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or There He is,’ do not believe him. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Behold, I have told you in advance. [SUP]26 [/SUP]So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them.

I see many Christians that refuse to understand that the Beast will come as a savior and his true intentions will not be revealed accept to those who have the Spirit of God in them. This little known fact destroys any notion of some rapture doctrine. Jesus plainly states in Rev 2 and 3 what it will take to enter into New Jerusalem and be on the new earth.

 

[popeye]

So could you possibly be insinuating we are to reject the signs Jesus gave to His "wimpy" disciples when they ask Him when would be the sign of His coming? I'll just quote a few verses from Matthew 24, accompanied with a few verses from other prophecies.

Verse 3b "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

Then Jesus describes many things to watch for that lead up to His return.

13. "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

The end of what? some may ask. Then He finally tells them about the tribulation that is more horrible than anything the world has ever experienced before. Jesus says that at the ending of this great tribulation salvation awaits those who make it through.

21. "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

So what happens at the end of that? Jesus completes His descriptions of what to watch for and the signs of His coming.

[SUP]29 [/SUP]Immediately "after" the tribulation of "those days" shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

"If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the Lord thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:" Deuteronomy 30:4
"Hear the word of the Lord, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock." Jeremiah 31:10
"Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the Lord: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the Lord." Zechariah 2:6
"And I will sow them among the people: and they shall remember me in far countries; and they shall live with their children, and turn again." Zechariah 10:9

Matthew 24:32-33
[SUP]33 [/SUP]So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Verily I say unto you, This generation ("this tribe" according to the Aramaic) shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

I don't think God wants us to believe a separation between the Jews from the Gentiles on this matter, and I clearly see a chronology of events listed. The Jews who are now dead cannot be resurrected after this said tribulation for "the dead in Christ shall rise first:" 1 Thessalonians 4:16b

I don't know what you are getting at.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.
(from the very chapter you use to "refute" the gathering of the bride)

Imagine that? the bride is removed. HMMMMM

Rev 3 contains the main harvest. (that happens after 1st fruits)
That would be liviticus.I realize no anti-pretribs ever look at the bride and harvest verses.

BTW,reconcile this promise, with the removal of protection,so the AC can finish off the saints.
They ALL DIE. It is written ALL THOSE W/O THE MARK DIE.
............so the OVERCOMMERS are those ones martyred.

Outstanding, except the Bride is not the gentile church, the Bride is Israel. The gentile church are the virgins and bridesmaids.
This is made most obvious in the Old testament in Places Like Psalms 45.

 

[just-me]

I don't know what you are getting at.

I'm answering this post of yours.

Then you have no idea what we believe.
Rev 13;7 is those left behind after the rapture.

You litterally have to remove the watching and waiting dimension to make your condescending remarks of the wimps you believe are those same ones watching and waiting.

read this post a little slower. You answered so quickly that you probably didn't comprehend it all.