Baptismal Regeneration of Infants
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S
Ok, and Paul said to call him Father or brother? "You BROTHERS, like Isaac"
I'm going to just stick with what Jesus said: "Don't call anyone else on earth Father".
Can I just listen to Jesus and not lean on your understanding. ..
And Paul did NOT say call me father....he was referencing himself being IN CHRIST,
I'm going to just stick with what Jesus said: "Don't call anyone else on earth Father".
Can I just listen to Jesus and not lean on your understanding. ..
And Paul did NOT say call me father....he was referencing himself being IN CHRIST,
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Sltaylor - what constitutes recognition of sin? What gravity of sin must be understood? As a preteen, I may have a knowledge of right and wrong and confess of my wrong, but I may not have experienced how complicated right and wrong decisions can be - I may not really know the weight of sin, and what I am burying symbolicly.
The problems I have with age of accountability is one) you are not drawing it directly from a Scripture, but reasoning a Scripture (repentance). So imo, there's no justification in being dogmatic about it. I mean that from the OTHER end of the argument as well.
And two) if you're saying a young child, like 12 years old, can repent... even though that child has experienced imperfection and flaws in oneself, is still in some cases largely removed from the weight of sin, being sheltered by the parents. Far removed from the weight of complicated decisions were sacrifices must be made, and mercy dealt, in order to obey God.
It's almost like they have never FELT the effects of sin, given a healthy home and body/mind. Repentance then kinda carries then a sort of redumentairly, no need to do that anymore feeling. Also, in pairing it with Baptizing you give the impression it only needs to happen once (and some teach that.) To me, it doesn't carry the full weight in the heart, because the sin has not pulled the child through a hard time yet.
That could be seen as an argument for decision, sure. But my point of that argument is that "being of age" to decide is a little trickier, cause what you could be doing in letting them get Baptized is minizing it's significance, in buring the Old Adam... They haven't yet really dealt with the Old Adam, not in the way to really grasp evil. It's a very impoortant, or I'd think, ordiance - they should be truly conscious of what it stands for. There's a reason children are considered and look at as pure innocent by many people - they don't know evil like older folks, blissfilly ignorant. Again I mean children from healthy homes.
The problems I have with age of accountability is one) you are not drawing it directly from a Scripture, but reasoning a Scripture (repentance). So imo, there's no justification in being dogmatic about it. I mean that from the OTHER end of the argument as well.
And two) if you're saying a young child, like 12 years old, can repent... even though that child has experienced imperfection and flaws in oneself, is still in some cases largely removed from the weight of sin, being sheltered by the parents. Far removed from the weight of complicated decisions were sacrifices must be made, and mercy dealt, in order to obey God.
It's almost like they have never FELT the effects of sin, given a healthy home and body/mind. Repentance then kinda carries then a sort of redumentairly, no need to do that anymore feeling. Also, in pairing it with Baptizing you give the impression it only needs to happen once (and some teach that.) To me, it doesn't carry the full weight in the heart, because the sin has not pulled the child through a hard time yet.
That could be seen as an argument for decision, sure. But my point of that argument is that "being of age" to decide is a little trickier, cause what you could be doing in letting them get Baptized is minizing it's significance, in buring the Old Adam... They haven't yet really dealt with the Old Adam, not in the way to really grasp evil. It's a very impoortant, or I'd think, ordiance - they should be truly conscious of what it stands for. There's a reason children are considered and look at as pure innocent by many people - they don't know evil like older folks, blissfilly ignorant. Again I mean children from healthy homes.
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S
1 Corinthians 13:11*NIV
11*When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
So you see there is a difference in the reasoning of a child and acknowledgement of sin.
"But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me*through what was good,"
Dying to sin is the ultimate understanding in the difference between what is right and wrong...
11*When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
So you see there is a difference in the reasoning of a child and acknowledgement of sin.
"But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me*through what was good,"
Dying to sin is the ultimate understanding in the difference between what is right and wrong...
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S
Ok.
Luke 3:3*NIV
3*He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a*baptism of repentance*for the forgiveness of sins.
Because clearly John said repent of adams sin and not your own, right?
John 1:23*NIV
23*John replied in the words of Isaiah the prophet, "I am the*voice of one calling*in the desert, 'Make straight the way for the Lord.' "
Luke 3:3*NIV
3*He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a*baptism of repentance*for the forgiveness of sins.
Because clearly John said repent of adams sin and not your own, right?
John 1:23*NIV
23*John replied in the words of Isaiah the prophet, "I am the*voice of one calling*in the desert, 'Make straight the way for the Lord.' "
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S
Here is research into the greek word Father according to scripture, see if you can find which Paul is referencing, they are all the same word, but implied different meanings...
*patḗr*–*father; one who*impartslife and is*committed*to it; a progenitor, bringing into being to pass on*the potential for likeness.
3962*/patḗr*("father") is used of our heavenly*Father. He imparts life, from physical birth to the gift of eternal life through the*second*birth (regeneration, being born again). Through ongoing sanctification, the believer more and more*resembles*their heavenly Father – i.e. each time they receive faith from Him and obey it, which results in their unique glorification.
[3962*/patḗr*("father") refers to a begetter, originator, progenitor – one in "intimate connection and relationship" (Gesenius). Just as in the NT, the OT never speaks of universal fatherhood of God toward men (see. G. B. Steven's concession,*The Theology of the New Testament, p 70; see p 68) (TWOT*1, 6).
For more o
*patḗr*–*father; one who*impartslife and is*committed*to it; a progenitor, bringing into being to pass on*the potential for likeness.
3962*/patḗr*("father") is used of our heavenly*Father. He imparts life, from physical birth to the gift of eternal life through the*second*birth (regeneration, being born again). Through ongoing sanctification, the believer more and more*resembles*their heavenly Father – i.e. each time they receive faith from Him and obey it, which results in their unique glorification.
[3962*/patḗr*("father") refers to a begetter, originator, progenitor – one in "intimate connection and relationship" (Gesenius). Just as in the NT, the OT never speaks of universal fatherhood of God toward men (see. G. B. Steven's concession,*The Theology of the New Testament, p 70; see p 68) (TWOT*1, 6).
For more o