OSAS doctrine denies the faith

[Grandpa]

Gotta have faith! Believe in the words of God. God's word says there are those who will turn away from the faith, just don't be one of those people.

Hebrews 2:1-2
[SUP]1[/SUP]Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, [SUP]2 [/SUP]Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Do you know what an Author and Finisher is?

 

[Grandpa]

Heb 3:12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

He speaks to the brethren about unbelief as if its possible to depart from God in the same too

If you believe its possible then you must believe it can happen to you.

If you believe it can happen to you then you don't believe in the Power of the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Author and Finisher of our faith.

If you don't believe in the Power of the Salvation of the Lord Jesus Christ I suppose you already have an evil heart of unbelief.

 

[Grandpa]

The Father takes the branch that bears not fruit away (I'll answer)

John 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit
he taketh away:

Where do they go?

Because we know...

John 15:2...every branch that beareth fruit,
he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Jesus said,

John 15:6 If a man abide not in me,
he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them,
and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

So he taketh away: and likewise it says,

Psalm 125:5 As for such as turn aside unto their crooked ways,
the LORD shall lead them forth with the workers of iniquity:
but peace shall be upon Israel.

Seems to correspond with that which bears thorns and briers whose end is to be burned

It corresponds to those who go back to their own work for their justification.

Do we have to worry that we are not abiding in Christ strongly enough? Are we worrrying that we don't have quite enough faith?

I guess I'm not sure what we should be worried about.

 

[Sirk]

No, the Bible says elsewhere that you cannot reject Christ's words and be in favor with him.

For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels. (Luke 9:26).

1 John 2:4 says if you say you know him and do not keep his commandments, you are a liar.

1 John 3:15 says anyone who hates his brother is a murderer and we know no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. Meaning, you can't hate your brother and still be saved.

But do you need the word "obey" in there tied to salvation or a purification of your soul? I got two for you.

One verse says Jesus became the author of our eternal salvation to all them that OBEY him.

Hebrews 5:9
"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"

Another passage says we have purified our souls in obeying the truth.

1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

Well you are rejecting Gods words about Jesus and His power alone to save you. Where does that leave you?

 

[Jeff_56]

"Hebrews 4 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
4 Therefore, let us be terrified of the possibility that, even though the promise of entering his rest remains, any one of you might be judged to have fallen short of it; "

if you carnal, (haven't entered his rest) , this is what to worry about....

 

[mailmandan]

Heb 3:12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

He speaks to the brethren about unbelief as if its possible to depart from God in the same too

The writer of Hebrews is addressing a very large group of Hebrews, so does this mean that EVERYONE in this very large group of professing believers must ALL be genuine Christians? Hebrews 3:8-10 says, Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, In the day of trial in the wilderness, Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years. Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, 'They always go astray in their heart, And they have not known My ways.' Not descriptive of believers. There is no loss of salvation here. Jude 1:5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having delivered the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

If a Pastor addresses a very large congregation on Sunday - "Good morning brothers and sisters in Christ," and the sermon is addressed to them, does that mean EVERYONE in church that day MUST be a brother or sister in Christ? It's not hard to find unbelievers (who may even look like the real deal) mixed in with a group (especially a very large group) of genuine believers. Evil heart of unbelief is not belief.

Notice in Hebrews 4:2-3, For indeed the gospel was preached to US as well as to THEM; but the word which THEY heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have BELIEVED do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. Not all of these Hebrews were Christians. Notice that verses 2-3 makes a distinction between US who have BELIEVED and do enter that rest and THEM who heard the word but did not mix faith with what they heard and will not enter that rest because of UNBELIEF.

 

[Grandpa]

Originally Posted by InSpiritInTruth

Gotta have faith! Believe in the words of God. God's word says there are those who will turn away from the faith, just don't be one of those people.

Hebrews 2:1-2
[SUP]1[/SUP]Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, [SUP]2 [/SUP]Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Do you know what an Author and Finisher is?

This combined with the knowledge contained in Ephesians 2:8-9 kind of unravels this whole thread, doesn't it?

Ephesians 2:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Who are we looking to for our salvation?
Who are we looking to for our justification?
Who are we looking to for all the requirements of salvation?

If we are placing conditions on salvation and justification on other people then we are placing those same conditions on ourselves.

Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Be careful of placing works as condition for salvation. The requirement of works is really really hard.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I'm sure you've got this. No, actually, no probably not.

 

[sparkman]

"Hebrews 4 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
4 Therefore, let us be terrified of the possibility that, even though the promise of entering his rest remains, any one of you might be judged to have fallen short of it; "

if you carnal, (haven't entered his rest) , this is what to worry about....

This is speaking of the rest of faith in Christ.

By the way, I noticed you did not give the next verse Matter of fact, let's quote the whole first part of the chapter.

This is not talking about a keeping of the literal Sabbath like some will claim. It is talking about entering into the spiritual rest that we have through placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And it is a rest from works to achieve our salvation.

Complete Jewish Bible? Is that like the JW's New World Translation, except for Sabbathkeepers?



Hebrews 4: 4 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]3 [/SUP]For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said,
“As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest,’”

although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.” [SUP]5 [/SUP]And again in this passage he said,
“They shall not enter my rest.”

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, [SUP]7 [/SUP]again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted,
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if Joshua had given them rest, God[SUP][b][/SUP] would not have spoken of another day later on. [SUP]9 [/SUP]So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, [SUP]10 [/SUP]for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.

 

[Jeff_56]

sometimes the ferry boat from mainland to island and back is free.

people can get on for free and travel for free to the island and back to the mainland .

young people. old people. men or women. any color. any nationality.

and anyone who wants to can jump off in the middle of the crossing and drown.

 

[Grandpa]

"Hebrews 4 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
4 Therefore, let us be terrified of the possibility that, even though the promise of entering his rest remains, any one of you might be judged to have fallen short of it; "

if you carnal, (haven't entered his rest) , this is what to worry about....

LOL.

I'll worry that I'm not resting enough in Christ.

Good one.

 

[Grandpa]

sometimes the ferry boat from mainland to island and back is free.

people can get on for free and travel for free to the island and back to the mainland .

young people. old people. men or women. any color. any nationality.

and anyone who wants to can jump off in the middle of the crossing and drown.

You don't believe the bible at all if you believe that.

2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

 

[Sirk]

LOL.

I'll worry that I'm not resting enough in Christ.

Good one.

If you contradict a contradiction does that mean you are back on track again? haha

 

[mailmandan]

You don't believe the bible at all if you believe that.

2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Amen! Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

 

[valiant]

sometimes the ferry boat from mainland to island and back is free.

people can get on for free and travel for free to the island and back to the mainland .

young people. old people. men or women. any color. any nationality.

and anyone who wants to can jump off in the middle of the crossing and drown.

being a member of the flock is free (it is a gift).

wandering off from the flock to perish is free. anyone can do it.

Oh NOOOOO!!! There is that Shepherd again. He just won't let me wander off and perish. What am I to do now?

 

[JesusIsAll]

The writer of Hebrews is addressing a very large group of Hebrews, so does this mean that EVERYONE in this very large group of professing believers must ALL be genuine Christians?.

Somebody yesterday brought forth Simon of Acts 8 as proof of loss of salvation, because it says he believed. Apparently, the claimant was oblivious that Simon went on to try and buy the Holy Spirit. All Simon shows us is an example of a fake faith, explicit in scripture he was not born again. You see the same in exegesis of these people so often, using scripture that, actually, destroys their claims, no understanding of the Bible.

 

[dcontroversal]

being a member of the flock is free (it is a gift).

wandering off from the flock to perish is free. anyone can do it.

Oh NOOOOO!!! There is that Shepherd again. He just won't let me wander off and perish. What am I to do now?

Jesus has got your back and covered....A sheep that goes astray is still a sheep and the shepherd will come find the one that wanders off and restore him to the flock.....still a sheep through the whole process!

 

[Sirk]

Somebody yesterday brought forth Simon of Acts 8 as proof of loss of salvation, because it says he believed. Apparently, the claimant was oblivious that Simon went on to try and buy the Holy Spirit. All Simon shows us is an example of a fake faith, explicit in scripture he was not born again. You see the same in exegesis of these people so often, using scripture that, actually, destroys their claims, no understanding of the Bible.

Why do they so want it to be that a person can lose the gift of salvation? Is it so they can have their club that looks down on everyone? Is it an insecurity about their own faith? Is a pride in their own efforts? I just don't understand the rub.

 

[Grandpa]

Why do they so want it to be that a person can lose the gift of salvation? Is it so they can have their club that looks down on everyone? Is it an insecurity about their own faith? Is a pride in their own efforts? I just don't understand the rub.

They are worried that some who think they are saved are in fact not saved but are living in sin thinking they are saved.

Its a valid worry, I suppose.

But it doesn't make OSAS untrue.

 

[DesiredHaven]

If you believe its possible then you must believe it can happen to you.

If you believe it can happen to you then you don't believe in the Power of the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Author and Finisher of our faith.

If you don't believe in the Power of the Salvation of the Lord Jesus Christ I suppose you already have an evil heart of unbelief.

I agree with what is written Hebrews 3:12 if you do not that is between you ad God.

If you have a problem with me agreeing with what is writtein in Heb 3:12 that again is between you and God.

 

[dcontroversal]

Why do they so want it to be that a person can lose the gift of salvation? Is it so they can have their club that looks down on everyone? Is it an insecurity about their own faith? Is a pride in their own efforts? I just don't understand the rub.

If salvation can be lost there will be more crickets in heaven than people.....no one except Jesus can keep the law, word of God and do no sin 100% of the time every second of every minute of every hour of every day of every week of every year their whole life........Jesus was the only one who was 100% righteous and without sin the whole time.........