OSAS doctrine denies the faith

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Jan 7, 2015
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Yes, in the context of falling from grace (even in respects to being justified by the law itself) a couple of verses after that Paul again touches on circumsion and uncircumcision (the issue at hand) in this way saying

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision;
but faith which worketh by love.

And the same, in this way in Corinthians

1 Cr 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing,
but the keeping of the commandments of God.

And both (together) are found this way in Revelation

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints:
here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
YEAH FAITH, FAITH, FAITH, FAITH....BELIEVING IN THE WORDS OF GOD...INCLUDING THE PROPHECIES OF THE FALLING AWAY FROM THE FAITH.

Here's some more on FAITH...

1 Corinthians 4:2 “Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.”
1 Corinthians 16:13 Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong.
2 Corinthians 1:24 “Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.”
2 Corinthians 13:5 “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?”
Galatians 3:14 “That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;”
1 Thessalonians 3:5 For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.
2 Thessalonians 3:2 “And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.
1 Timothy 1:19 “Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:”
1 Timothy 3:9 “Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.”
1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;”
1 Timothy 5:12 “Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.”
1 Timothy 6:10 “For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.”
1 Timothy 6:20-21 “O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:[SUP]21 [/SUP]Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.”
2 Timothy 3:8“Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.”
Hebrews 10:22Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Hebrews 10:23 “Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)
Hebrews 10:38 “Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.”
James 2:14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
James 2:17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
Revelation 2:13 “I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.”
Revelation 17:14 “These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.”
 
Jan 7, 2015
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It's a you can lose your salvation thread which is the same thing as a saved by works thread.....really.
Gotta have faith! Believe in the words of God. God's word says there are those who will turn away from the faith, just don't be one of those people. :)
 
Jan 7, 2015
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Gotta have faith! Believe in the words of God. God's word says there are those who will turn away from the faith, just don't be one of those people. :)
1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;”
 
Jan 7, 2015
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Hebrews 10:38
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
 
Jan 6, 2014
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The faith is not defined by: Once saved always saved. The faith is defined by Jesus Christ.

Faith without love is dead according to St Paul.

Faith without works is dead according to St James.

the controversy arises about who defines what is love and what is works.

The OSAS believers have a valid response, and say faith in Jesus Chrst alone is sufficient for salvation, because how else are we saved?

"even to those who believe in his name ...." Gospel of John.

There are wolves in sheep clothing who lead many astray, but the true believer who has received the Holy Spirit can not be led astray, because his soul has become one with the Spirit of God.

To Jesus Christ be the glory forever, Amen.
 
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DesiredHaven

Guest
Gotta have faith! Believe in the words of God. God's word says there are those who will turn away from the faith, just don't be one of those people. :)
Heb 3:12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

He speaks to the brethren about unbelief as if its possible to depart from God in the same too
 
Jan 7, 2015
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Heb 3:12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

He speaks to the brethren about unbelief as if its possible to depart from God in the same too
There ya go! Ah man I missed that one, that's a good one too, thanks Sis! Here's a couple more about falling away.

Luke 8:13
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

2 Peter 3:17
Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
 
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DesiredHaven

Guest
I hope this helps

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Shalom
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:
depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Yes those seem to confirm in how they speak in accord with which he knows and departing either from iniquity or those ( from him ) who work it.

Although Psalm 125:5in respects to the workers of inquity seems to be accord with the emn who gather the cast off branches shown in John 15:2 & 6)
 
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DesiredHaven

Guest
There ya go! Ah man I missed that one, that's a good one too, thanks Sis! Here's a couple more about falling away.

Luke 8:13
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

2 Peter 3:17
Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
There are some definately worth considering. Im sort of going blind because I dont know the other doctrine but I sort of dont want to aproach anything with an angle but to go straight using scripture without it getting all emotional or twisty.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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There are some definately worth considering. Im sort of going blind because I dont know the other doctrine but I sort of dont want to aproach anything with an angle but to go straight using scripture without it getting all emotional or twisty.
Well don't go getting all emotional about it, we gots enough of that on this thread. LOL I think I'm gonna call it a night on the puter, my fingers are starting to cramp up. LOL

God bless ya Sis, and remember, KEEP THE FAITH! :)
 
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DesiredHaven

Guest
The faith is not defined by: Once saved always saved. The faith is defined by Jesus Christ.

Faith without love is dead according to St Paul.

Faith without works is dead according to St James.

the controversy arises about who defines what is love and what is works.

The OSAS believers have a valid response, and say faith in Jesus Chrst alone is sufficient for salvation, because how else are we saved?

"even to those who believe in his name ...." Gospel of John.

There are wolves in sheep clothing who lead many astray, but the true believer who has received the Holy Spirit can not be led astray, because his soul has become one with the Spirit of God.

To Jesus Christ be the glory forever, Amen.
I agree faith worketh by love, John asks a question concerning the love of God (in truth) dwelling in one

1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us:
and we ought to lay down
our lives for the brethren.

1 John 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need,
and shutteth up his bowels
of compassion from him,
how dwelleth the love of God in him?

1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

1 John 3:19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth,
and shall assure our hearts before him.

James 2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

James 2:15
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

James 2:16
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Faith worketh by love (again)

1 John 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need,
and shutteth up his bowels
of compassion from him,
((((((( how )))))) dwelleth the love of God ((((( in )))) him?

James 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, (((((( is dead))))) , being alone.

And again...

1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

1 John 3:19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth,
and shall assure our hearts before him.



 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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So the ignore button really works! I was able to get through this thread in record time, because I have most of the people who are works based salvation on ignore. Very refreshing to read lots of Scriptures about how God saves us for eternity.

I would ask that people not use the "reply with quote" button, esp. for Jason's long list of exegetically misguided verses he posts every time on this topic. In fact, I have yet to see him add anything to the topic.

So thanks for a good and encouraging read! God is still sovereign, and he saves forever! Which is a good thing!

So just to quickly review, for those who are lost in their sins, and losing their salvation daily.

1. Justification - we are made right or righteous in the eyes of God, THROUGH the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. We believe by grace faith, which is a gift of God.

"Therefore since we have been justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God." Romans 5:1-2

2. Sanctification - the journey we walk with God, through the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit.

"But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth." 2 Thess. 2:13

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come." 2 Cor. 5:17


3. Glorification - when we are made perfect. This occurs when we die, or when Christ returns.

"
Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:2

"And those who he predestined he also called, and those who he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." Romans 8:30


In theology, this is called the "now and the not yet." We live with the tension of totally belonging to Christ, but also looking forward to his coming and the work he continues to do in our hearts and lives.
 
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DesiredHaven

Guest
Well don't go getting all emotional about it, we gots enough of that on this thread. LOL I think I'm gonna call it a night on the puter, my fingers are starting to cramp up. LOL

God bless ya Sis, and remember, KEEP THE FAITH! :)
Good night to you Bro.

Peace and God bless you
 
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Called4Christ

Guest
1 John 1:7
IF we walk in the light as he is in the light, the blood of Jesus cleanses us from sin.

The original word for cleanses is in the present and can be therefore interpreted "continually cleanses". That aside, please consider this:

This sentence is an if/then statement, something we all learn about in elementary school. There are some fancy terms that go with the parts of this kind of sentence, but it consists of the ascendent (the "IF" phrase) and the adopoisis ("then" phrase). The sentence would be otherwise incomplete. Let's keep that in mind as we analyze this sentence.

First, how could one walk in the light without Jesus? It's impossible. To walk without Jesus would mean your spiritual death. You cannot have life except through Christ our Lord. Therefore, we have to assume the believers mentioned in antecedent are saved because they're walking with Jesus.

Some here are saying that if we're walking with Jesus (saved), we are unable to sin. If that was the case, there would be no need for the apodosis: "the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin."

This verse only makes sense if you acknowledge that it is possible to fall short of the glory of God while under his grace. This verse is saying that you are covered for your sins.The alternative is this: If we walk in the light as he is in the light ("If we have stopped sinning entirely"), then the blood of Christ continually cleanses us. ..... I mean, that interpretation wouldn't make sense at all...



"Should we continue sinning that grace may abound?" (Romans 6:1)

Does this mean that we can just sin whenever we want and get away with it? No way! I mean Paul talked about this in Romans. I'd like to point out that the word "Walk" in 1 John 1:7 is also in the present. So we need to be actively walking .And remember, this is a conditional phrase; an if/then statement.
 
Feb 1, 2015
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Dear InSpiritinTruth:

Yes, I agree. It is not just about having a "belief" alone.

One must obey the words of Jesus Christ, too.

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." (John 12:48).
Nope not true, obedience is no where mentioned as a requirement for salvation. Once the Holy Spirit indwells you the he go to work telling you what you should keep.
:)
 
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Called4Christ

Guest
Nope not true, obedience is no where mentioned as a requirement for salvation. Once the Holy Spirit indwells you the he go to work telling you what you should keep. :)
What is your response to the parable concerning the vine that bears no fruit? (John 15:2). Or Jesus saying in John 14:15 "If you love me, keep my commandments"
 
Feb 1, 2015
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What is your response to the parable concerning the vine that bears no fruit? (John 15:2). Or Jesus saying in John 14:15 "If you love me, keep my commandments"
er, we were talking about the requirement to salvation in Christ not afterward.
 
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DesiredHaven

Guest
Nope not true, obedience is no where mentioned as a requirement for salvation. Once the Holy Spirit indwells you the he go to work telling you what you should keep. :)
God spake by Jesus Christ, the apostles spoke of hearing Jesus

Acts 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

But you could be right, you could hear Jesus and not obey him and be good to go these days

2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.

He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Just keep the book open by you and that could be abiding maybe, I need to check on that one
 
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Called4Christ

Guest
er, we were talking about the requirement to salvation in Christ not afterward.
Yes, I'm aware. I'm getting the impression that you're saying we don't need to obey God...We should strive to obey God at all times. We require his grace as we stumble, but we should still try

Maybe I'm still misunderstanding.
 
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DesiredHaven

Guest
What is your response to the parable concerning the vine that bears no fruit? (John 15:2). Or Jesus saying in John 14:15 "If you love me, keep my commandments"

The Father takes the branch that bears not fruit away (I'll answer)

John 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit
he taketh away
:

Where do they go?

Because we know...

John 15:2...every branch that beareth fruit,
he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Jesus said,

John 15:6 If a man abide not in me,
he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them,
and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

So he taketh away: and likewise it says,

Psalm 125:5 As for such as turn aside unto their crooked ways,
the LORD shall lead them forth with the workers of iniquity:
but peace shall be upon Israel.

Seems to correspond with that which bears thorns and briers whose end is to be burned