OSAS doctrine denies the faith

Cee · May 22, 2015

True Jason.

Our righteousness is from Him. And He changes us into people who do works of righteousness. Let me show you...

First let's go to Ephesians 4 and see how Paul explains the Gospel to uncover the question of what His righteousness looks like in our life...

Ephesians 4:17Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds.

Notice that Paul says here that we no longer walk as Gentiles, I think we are both in agreement here Jason, that we must no longer walk in the futility of the world's ways. By the way futility means: pointlessness or uselessness.

The point Paul is making is that the Gentiles way is useless, empty, vain. Sin is the way of destruction and death. Why would we want it when we understand a better way in Christ? We wouldn't. The problem is RENEWING of the mind. Which Paul continues into...

18They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart.

Notice they are darkened in their understanding, they don't KNOW better, and because of this they are ALIENATED (or SEPARATED) from the LIFE of God. God's ways are life, freedom, love, liberty, and joy. These are the things we truly want, but have been lead (conformed by the world) to believe we need to sin to have. This is a big point. Sin is a lie that doesn't satisfy.

19They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity.

Callous meaning: showing or having an insensitive and cruel disregard for others. We see this in the life of the Pharisees it is a life devoid of love. And because of this, they feel they have to love themselves, take care of themselves through sensuality and greed. Pride is believing our way is better than His way. But once again this doesn't truly satisfy or lead to life.

And here is what Paul is driving at... He says to the believers... look the way of the Gentiles... who DON'T know better... is not the way you are to walk!!! And we agree here Jason, I'm sure.

20But that is not the way you learned Christ!— 21assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus

Paul is stressing in verse 20 if you have truly been taught about Christ as He really is... which unfortunately my friend is the biggest issue (IMO) that the Church faces... which I will get into in just a minute....

22to put off your old self,[SUP]f[/SUP] which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, 23and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds,

Put off your old self. This is the key if you will to RENEWING of minds. It is the understanding that you are NOT the old man, but you are the new man. A new creation (2 Co 5:17). So anything that belongs to the former manner and is corrupt is not who we are now in Christ. We are new creations. Reborn. New trees that bear good fruit (Matthew 7:17) UNLIKE the Gentiles who do not know better because they are still bad trees. They haven't been changed by Christ yet.

But Paul explains who we are now...

24and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

So we put off the old man (the lies) of who we once were, but are no longer. And we put on the new self. And what is this new self? It is created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness. The tree is changed, so the fruit is changed.

The problem is that people don't have their mind's renewed to who they NOW are in Christ. So they are still trying to DO to BECOME, but this doesn't work. Because every thing you are told to DO to BE is simply an obstacle to receiving what Christ has done.

So while I agree that we are clothed in Christ righteousness. It is because of His righteousness that we no longer live, but Christ does in us. And we in Him. That now we naturally do the things of God. This is why it's called fruit of the Spirit.

The main driving point of Scripture is to look at your fruit to determine your root. And I agree. But also there is a place for knowing who we are in Christ. And who Christ is in us. That's why we see Scripture writers continually exhort believers to walk as Christ. Not because they weren't saved, but because they didn't understand who they now were.

C.

Jason0047 · May 22, 2015

p_rehbein said:

It is strange that we are all in agreement here. But I know somethiing is still amiss (Not that I want there to be something amiss). What am I talking about? Well, I cannot erase my experience of what people have already told me here at CC (Christian Chat) and at TOL (Theology Online). For I know the wrong beliefs that most folks who believe in some kind of "sin and still be saved" type doctrine.

1. Future sin is forgiven them.

2. You can be out of fellowship with God and still be saved.

3. Abiding in one or two unrepentant sins before you die does not necessarily mean you won't go to Heaven.

4. You can commit suicide and still be saved.

5. A believer will forever have sin in their life and it is impossible to stop sinning.

6. Many believers in this camp will admit that they sin daily those types of sins that lead unto death (like lying, lusting, etc.).

7. Some (and not all) folks here admit that confession of sin is not necessary for the forgiveness of sin.

8. Folks here are of the belief that you can verbally persecute other believers and poke fun at them and even use swear words.

9. Most here are not pushing a life of excess sin or a complete abandonment of God's laws, but they do allow for some sin to exist in their life. As if a little bit of sin is okay versus a lot of sin.

10. Some (and not all) think that God only chooses those believers who will endure to the End. That God does not live up to His promises of those who repent and turn towards Him. They don't realize that God does not force people to be saved or keep them in His Kingdom against their own will; And nether does God just choose those He knows who will endure for all time. For the Parable of the Sower let us know that some fell away due to persecution or the cares of this life.

Anyways, I say this in love and not to get anyone upset. I am merely pointing out what others have told me in regards to this topic.

May God bless you all with all manner of good things in Christ.
And may you please be well, too.

JesusIsAll · May 22, 2015

Viligant_Warrior said:

Amen, Brother! That is true salvation. One is not saved by walking an aisle and saying a prayer. That can be done in the passion of the moment without true conviction, or it can be done because intellectual assent to the Gospel takes root, but remains 18" away from true salvation -- the distance from the head to the heart.

We must be drawn by the Holy Spirit. Nothing in us will cause us to seek God. We must be called by the Holy Spirit, and by that I mean we see the truth revealed and are drawn to the compelling love of Christ through that revelation. Our minds must be opened, our spirits must be opened, to receive that truth, and then -- and only then -- is it up to use, through our freely actin will, to believe.

When we do so, we make a confession to Christ that we are indeed a sinner in need of a Savior who is Christ. But there is one more even that must occur before we are truly saved. That is, God the Father must acknowledge that confession as pure, true, and convicting. He makes that acknowledgment by sending the Holy Spirit to indwell us, and Paul said in Ephesians 1:13, 14 that He is our seal toward redemption in that last day, a down payment made by God that binds His promise of salvation, justification, sanctification, and ultimately, redemption.

Once this process has taken place, no one can revoke it, none can break the contract, none can act in violation of it, because the promise comes through God's grace, who will not forsake His own.

I should never have ventured back onto one of these heretical threads. These fools and false teachers raise my ire to the boiling point, and while it may seem good to challenge fools spewing falsehoods, it is useless to do so. It will not convince them, and the attitude that I ultimately show dishonors Christ.

So I'm not going to participate in this nonsense anymore. Let the fools have their false teaching. The rest of us know the truth.

Amen. You're much appreciated, Vigilant Warrior, a man of intellect and gospel truth. Don't worry that anybody of the truth, with eyes to see, is fooled, not for a minute. Blind, leading the blind, into the ditch. That's all.

Galatians 2:4-5 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: to whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

MarcR · May 22, 2015

MarcR said:

This was intended for another thread; but maybe it fits here too.

Jason0047 · May 22, 2015

Cee said:

A changed life and their fruit is by God. For who does the "good work" in a believer's life? Is it God? Or is it the believer? Well, Scripture tells us that God (Christ) is the One who does the work within a believer.

Philippians 1:6
Philippians 1:11
Philippians 2:13
Philippians 4:13
1 Corinthians 15:10 KJV
Hebrews 12:1, 2
Hebrews 13:21
Isaiah 26:12
1 John 4:12
Galatians 5:22, 23, 24 (cf. Matthew 7:16, 18, Matthew 19:17)
John 15:5
Ezekiel 36:26, 27

For that is why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus (Revelation 4:10). For the crowns they received for their good work was all the result of Christ working in them.

Yeah, but doesn't a believer do the work, too? Now, yes, it is true; A believer is created unto Christ Jesus for good works (Ephesians 2:10); And a believer is indeed held accountable by their "good works" here upon this Earth at a Judgment. But we must also realize that true believers are not ultimately doing these "good works" alone or of their own power, though. For in 1 Corinthians 15:10 Paul said that he labored more than all of his brethren, yet he said it was not him that labored but it was the grace of God that was within him. So true believer's are just choosing to allow God's "good work" to flow within them or not.

However, can a believer sin against God and fight against Him? Well, just look at the history of mankind and ask yourself that question. Adam and Eve sure sinned against God and it led all men to be under sin and death.

Viligant_Warrior · May 22, 2015

MarcR said:

Yeah, it works. Quite well, actually.

Cee · May 22, 2015

They will always choose God when their mind is renewed to His goodness and kindness. The problem is the lies they are believing about Christ and themselves. That's why renewing of the mind is what causes transformation. And yes He prepares the works for us to walk in. We are simply obedient. But not because we "have to be" but because we "get to be".

He is a heart God. He wants true obedience from a place of understanding how good He is. Not how good you're trying to be. Once we accept we are eternally saved - we are off the treadmill of trying to earn our salvation - and we begin to walk in a place of right relationship out of love for Him and His people.

C.

mwc68 · May 22, 2015

Cee said:

They will always choose God when their mind is renewed to His goodness and kindness. The problem is the lies they are believing about Christ and themselves. That's why renewing of the mind is what causes transformation. And yes He prepares the works for us to walk in. We are simply obedient. But not because we "have to be" but because we "get to be".

He is a heart God. He wants true obedience from a place of understanding how good He is. Not how good you're trying to be. Once we accept we are eternally saved - we are off the treadmill of trying to earn our salvation - and we begin to walk in a place of right relationship out of love for Him and His people.

C.

We are eternally "saved" as long as we remain in Christ, not because we said some sinner's prayer and shook the preacher's hand. OSAS is not biblical!!!

Jason0047 · May 22, 2015

Cee said:

How does that type of belief work with the verse that says.... "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"? Now, certain folks here might try and twist the word "fear" to mean something else. But you really can't do that see. The word "tremble" is next to the word "fear" letting us know it really means what it says plainly at face value. For if I said a man down the street was in a state of fear and he was trembling, you wouldn't think he was happy or in a state of reverence or awe about something. You would think he was actually in fear. Yes, perfect love casts out fear. But what is that perfect love? Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments. The Scriptures even say that if we do not even love our brother we do not know God. For to hate our brother is likened unto murderer and we know no murderer has eternal life abiding within them. Christians today minimize sin and they turn it into some kind of fluffy kitten. Just believe in Jesus. That's the popular message being pushed. Don't worry about following Jesus. Once Saved Always Saved. But Jesus said, narrow is the way that leads unto life, but few be there that find it. OSAS is the popular belief being pushed here in America. I go to a poor church in Brazil (Where my fiance lives) and OSAS is an alien concept. These people preach the Word with fire and with the Spirit. They do not have any excuse to justify some kind of sin and still be saved doctrine. Kids dance up and down the aisle during the worship service. It's beautiful. It's not some kind of light show like many churches here in America (who are out to line their pockets whereby they live for themselves and sin).

OSAS is evil at it's core because it leads people to think they can sin and still be saved regardless if you tell them that one should strive to live holy. They are just going to think.... "Hey, I got my ticket to Heaven, so what does it really matter how I live?" But Jesus says, he that shall save his life shall lose it, but he that shall lose his life for his sake shall find it. For we are not our own. We are bought and paid for with a price. For Paul says we are to offer our bodies as a willing sacrfice unto God which is our reasonable service. So if we offer our bodies unto God, how is there any room for ourselves and or for sin? The short answer is that there isn't.

Jason0047 · May 22, 2015

mwc68 said:

I think people are confused as to what eternal life is. I think some might think "eternal life" is some kind of super power that they receive or some kind of wish that was granted to them like it was from some kind of magical genie (when they rub some kind of golden lamp). However, 1 Timothy 6:16 says that Christ alone possesses immortality. 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life. So "eternal life" is a person named Jesus Christ. A person abides in Christ and they have "eternal life" because He is "eternal life." Nobody can be out of fellowship with God and still be saved. Yet, there are quite a few here who have admitted already (by way of a vote) that believe they can be out of fellowship and still be saved (Which is an unbiblical concept).

Cee · May 22, 2015

Philippians 4:2 12Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Once again it is Christ living through you.

The DEGREE that He lives through you, is your awareness of Him, which is REPENTANCE. This is a change of mind toward the Kingdom of God (which is the reign and rule of Christ).

Romans 2:3But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God?

Romans 2:4Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

And OSAS is definitely Biblical. Because if it's not then you're not truly a new creation like the Bible says you are.

2 Co 5:16Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. 17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

We must be careful what lens we see Scripture through. Especially if we think we need to add to the work of Christ.

Galatians 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

C.

sparkman · May 22, 2015

Jason, why don't you quote the next verse along with the verse you quoted? It seems like synergists never do that. It might give those who dwell in condemnation the realization that it is God who causes the Christian to both WILL and DO his good pleasure.

There's no denying that man is responsible, but God is also sovereign and is also the author and finisher of our salvation.

By the way, I never try to convince someone who pushes the anti-eternal security agenda, because THEY may not have Christ as the object of their faith, but I do. It's the Christian who is dwelling in self condemnation that I will help with their assurance of salvation...not those who loudly deny it.

Phil 2: [SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, [SUP]13 [/SUP]for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Jason0047 said:

Jason0047 · May 22, 2015

Cee said:

That is dangerous to even say that. Let's say an axe murderer was reading your post and he thinks to himself..... "Hmmm.... I don't really have to serve God. I can just continue to keep chopping people's heads off and still be saved." But we both know it doesn't work like that. It's either completely being sold out to God or it is about serving yourself and sin. There is no inbetween kingdom. Jesus says no man can serve two masters. For he will hate the one and love the other. Yet, you are implying that it is optional to obey Jesus when you say words like....

"We are simply obedient....not because we have to be."

Jesus said, why do you call me Lord, Lord, if you do not do what I say?

In other words, according to Jesus: He cannot be your Lord if you do not do what he says.

So.....If Jesus is not one's Lord then that means they are lord to somebody else.

"....continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."

For how do you interpret such a verse to mean it to say something different than what it says plainly?

eternallife7 · May 22, 2015

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 1 Timothy 1:9

Cee · May 22, 2015

It is pride to think others will do this when you do not. Do you sin? Do you want to sin? If not, why do you assume others will want to? We are dead to sin. Free from sin. Do you believe this? Or do you not believe Scripture when Paul says we are in Romans 6?

If you don't believe we are truly free from sin. And sin truly is not something to be desired when we know better. You will rally hard against OSAS and that mindset is the biggest problem. And it needs to be renewed back to the goodness of God. So then your heart will follow God not because of fear to lose your salvation. But because He loved you first. And this love changes you deep in your core. So that you excitedly do the things of God!

The "have to's" are the biggest issue with legalism. Do you want people to feel like they "have to" hang out with you? Be with you? Be loved by you? If not, why do you think God does?

C.

Cee · May 22, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Actually the Scripture says, "I NEVER KNEW YOU..."

It doesn't say they knew Him and fell away.

Regarding Romans 12 if you read the context is Jews vs Gentiles. Jews are the natural branch. Gentiles are the ones being grafted in. He is saying if you despise the natural branches, you can just as easily be cut off.

And since we are playing Scripture tag...

Here's a few for you:

In John 10:28-30, Jesus says: “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one."

He gives us eternal life and we shall NEVER perish. And no we can't leave His hand. That's just twisting the Scripture.

John 6:39, "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day."

He will lose nothing. Not even you.

Hebrews 13:5, "Let your character be free from the love of money, being content with what you have; for He Himself has said, 'I will never desert you, nor will I ever forsake you.'”

He will never desert us. Or forsake us. Never means never.

1 John 2:19, "They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, in order that it might be shown that they all are not of us."

Those who leave were never one of us. They weren't really a believer. Ever. Jesus says He never knew them.

As far as those who still commit sin:

1 John 2:4, "The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

Why? Because along with salvation there is regeneration. Regeneration is the change in the person from being enslaved to sin to serving God, from being dead in his sins to alive in Christ. This is what it means to be born again (John 3:3) and to be made a new creature (2 Corinthians 5:17). It means we were crucified with Christ (Romans 6:6), and in so doing have also died to sin.

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace might increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?"

So, when people accuse Christians who affirm that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, as a license to go out and sin, they are misrepresenting the position and bearing false witness against it. Furthermore, they are ignoring the fact that true Christians are also regenerate which motivates them to stop sinning, to war against their sin, and to honor God.

eternallife7 · May 22, 2015

On the cool it is very terrible to go on to a Christian chat room and proclaim the Gospel and then have many try to tell you that you are mistaken. Repent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jason0047 · May 22, 2015

Cee said:

This is not my first time discussing this topic. I have been arguing against OSAS for many many years. It is not new to me. I heard all the excuses. Most of the time these discussions try to derail into talking about my personal life instead of sticking with the Word of God which is where our authority is supposed to be. Taking the focus of the Scriptures is a "magic trick slight of hand tactic" that seeks to ignore what God's Word is really saying to a person. Noah and his family were the only ones who were righteous and the rest of the world was wicked and destroyed for their wickedness. Jesus said as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be with the coming of the Son of Man. So men are going to naturally be inclined to favor sin and wickedness over serving God. Now, am I saying that there is only going to be one family that is serving God in the end times? No. But I do believe the words of Jesus when he says.... narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that find it.

Also, I am against OSAS because tons of people's lives have been ruined by believing in it. Many have come out of OSAS because they could no longer stand their sinful hypocritical lifestyle. Yes, there are many testimonies of people who have come out of OSAS. They have changed lives now whereby they serve God in righteousness instead of sin. People have committed suicide thinking they were Once Saved Always Saved. See, that is the twisted evil belief that I am fighting. George Sodini is the poster child for OSAS. He murdered a bunch of people. So right there we can see that the fruit of such a belief is wrong and false. For Jesus says, we will know false prophets by their fruits (i.e. deeds).

As for sin and the believer: Well, no true believer abides in unrepentant sin and thinks they are saved. That would make you the villain of the story and not the hero. I mean, how on Earth do you watch a movie and know the good guys from the bad guys? How do you turn on the news and determine if it is good news or bad news? Is not by people's actions that determine if they are good or not? Yet, you are saying..... this is not so. We can all just be saved and live how we like. I am sorry. It doesn't work like. One cannot serve two masters. One is either a servant to Jesus or they are servant to someone else.

Also being free from sin is not having a license to sin or not ever having to worry about it again. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. So we must confess our sin to be forgiven of sin. Forgiveness is not automatic. In fact, if we do not forgive others, we will not even be forgiven by the Father. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light as he is in the light, then the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. It is not.... I have a mental acknowledgement that Jesus is my Savior and the blood cleanses me. The Bible does not teach that. It says walk in the light as he is in the light. Oh, and this is in context to 1 John 2:3-6 (Which says the same thing but in more clearer words).

Jeff_56 · May 22, 2015

eternallife7 said:

there's only one telling you to repent. his name is yahshua hamashiach (jesus).

Jason0047 · May 22, 2015

Cee said:

Ezekiel 18:24 KJV

But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

In other words, God does not remember a man's righteous ways when he does evil. He does not know him as a righteous man anymore because he has now done evil. It's the reverse when somebody repents of their sins. For when a person repents of their sins, God does not remember their past sins anymore or their iniquities.

Actually, there are many who have fallen away from the faith.

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)

Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)

The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)

Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)

Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)

Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)

Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)

Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14, 15)

Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8, 9, 10)

Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:1-11)

Balaam (Numbers chapters 22, 23, 24) (Numbers 31:8) (Joshua 13:22) (Jude 1:11)

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45, 46)

Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)

The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14, 15)

Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)

Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)

Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5, 6)

Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)

Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)

Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7, 8)

The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back
(James 5:19, 20)

For Jesus is the Light and we are to shine the Light of Christ within our lives. For there are those who think they can serve Jesus and also live for oneself, sin, and evil; But this is wrong, though. "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (John 3:20-21).

Have no idea what you are talking about. Cut off means cut off from salvation. What else can it mean? Israel missed their Messiah and were cut off salvation wise as a nation because of their unbelief. They reject Jesus as their Messiah. Gentiles are warned that they too can be cut off in the same way IF..... IF.... we do not continue in his goodness. Goodness is doing God's righteous ways. What else can it mean?

The Context is ..... those sheep that FOLLOW Jesus. These are not sheep that are being dragged on leashes by their necks against their will.

Do a word search on the word "should" on that chapter. In fact, we know Judas was given by the Father to Jesus, and he lost him in John chapter 17.

Already recently addressed this within this thread. Please go back a few pages for the answer with Scripture, my friend.

This was a select group of disciples and does not say it is a description for all believers.

Paul said he could be a cast away himself. If you do not believe him, just keep reading on into the next chapter after he said those words.

That is what I teach. Regeneration leads to a changed life. But yet you are saying a person does not have to obey Jesus on some level and yet they can still be saved. What things are there exactly can a Christian do and not do to be considered a real believer? Can a believer sin and still be saved? How is that consistent with the above verses?

Not everyone believes this. Most believe here that they will forever be a slave to their sin and that they will never be able to stop sinning. Is that what you believe, too? Are you saved if you die in one unrepenant sin like say lying?

OSAS doctrine denies the faith

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