OSAS doctrine denies the faith

[Jason0047]

Show me were in the bible it says a person can only be forgiven if the repentance is made after the sin is done?

1 John 1:9 says if we confess we are forgiven.
2 Corinthians 7:10 says Godly sorrow leads to repentance unto salvation.
David said return to me the joy of my salvation when he confessed his sins to God.
If you do not forgive, you are not forgiven.
No murderer has eternal life abiding in them; And it only takes one murder to be a murderer.

 

[Jason0047]

You need to go see someone and get some help my friend. I see a counseler. Best thing I ever did. And he is a christian man too. A good christian counseler is Gods secret weapon.

I would suggest that for everyone here who believes they can sin a little the rest of their life with the thinking they are saved. God will not condone His people to do evil or sin.

 

[Sirk]

I would suggest that for everyone here who believes they can sin a little the rest of their life with the thinking they are saved. God will not condone His people to do evil or sin.

Nah man. Nobody is suggesting that here. You're chasing after something that ain't there.

 

[Sirk]

I would suggest that for everyone here who believes they can sin a little the rest of their life with the thinking they are saved. God will not condone His people to do evil or sin.

You should start a tv show called "hunter of so called Christians who think they can kill puppies and kitties and still get to heaven" and go out and hit the street and see how many you actually find.

 

[Jason0047]

Nah man. Nobody is suggesting that here. You're chasing after something that ain't there.

Not true. The cat is already out of the bag. Many here have already admitted that they will sin the rest of their lives. This is willingly giving into sin and evil. It is making an excuse to be bad. This is wrong and evil and nobody here can actually see it.

 

[Jason0047]

You should start a tv show called "hunter of so called Christians who think they can kill puppies and kitties and still get to heaven" and go out and hit the street and see how many you actually find.

People who hold to a "sin and still be saved" doctrine turn sin into a fluffy harmless kitten. They minimize sin. It's is wrong and it's evil.

 

[Sirk]

Not true. The cat is already out of the bag. Many here have already admitted that they will sin the rest of their lives. This is willingly giving into sin and evil. It is making an excuse to be bad. This is wrong and evil and nobody here can actually see it.

Go see someone man. From one man to another. Go get help. Really...I mean it.

 

[skylove7]

Not true. The cat is already out of the bag. Many here have already admitted that they will sin the rest of their lives. This is willingly giving into sin and evil. It is making an excuse to be bad. This is wrong and evil and nobody here can actually see it.

Zzzzzzz....yawn, will you wake me up when you admit you have flaws like the rest of us? Thank you and God bless you!

 

[Jason0047]

Zzzzzzz....yawn, will you wake me up when you admit you have flaws like the rest of us? Thank you and God bless you!

Flaws are not sins unto death. Lying, cheating, and hating are not flaws. They are sins. Serious sins. Yes, God's grace is there for us. But it is not a license for us to sin. God's grace is there for us to overcome sin. It's not that you may not stumble on your road to recovery. But if one does not want to recover or overcome sin, then they are condoning sin and making an allowance for evil. Therein lies the difference.

 

[Jason0047]

Go see someone man. From one man to another. Go get help. Really...I mean it.

Actually, I can say the same to you, but my suggestion is to seek the One above for that help.

 

[Sirk]

Actually, I can say the same to you, but my suggestion is to seek the One above for that help.

Yes....you can say the same to me....but it still doesn't change what I said to you. Now if you said it to me and it wasn't true, I would say what you said to me wasn't true...but what you said to me was true....what you said about me needing God.....what you said about that is true.

 

[Jason0047]

Yes....you can say the same to me....but it still doesn't change what I said to you. Now if you said it to me and it wasn't true, I would say what you said to me wasn't true...but what you said to me was true....what you said about me needing God.....what you said about that is true.

But your advice is meaningless because you are seeing something that is not there. My advice is sound because God would not want you to think you will forever be a slave to your sin. Why would He? He is holy.

 

[Sirk]

But your advice is meaningless because you are seeing something that is not there. My advice is sound because God would not want you to think you will forever be a slave to your sin. Why would He? He is holy.

Whatever man......you say the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over......it's called ocd. You should get it treated before you start damaging relationships and people. What you got going on aint healthy.


You need to learn another song...theres more than one ya know. My nephew used to listen to Dirty Laundry by Don Henley...over and over. I hate that song thanks to him. With you...I'm getting close to my limit and the day is coming when I put you on ignore if you don't change your tune.

 

[Skinski7]

I mean, the more and more I listen to people here, the more I believe they are out to condone evil.

It doesn't make a difference if you are generally living holy or not. Doing a little bit of sin on occasion and saying you will forever sin is just wrong.

For essentially everyone here is defending a "sin and still be saved" doctrine.

That is just pure evil and wrong if that is the case. That would be like a bad guy declaring his bad and evil acts as good and righteous.

Are folks here really not aware of what is good and right?

Do people here really not know what "Morals" actually are?

Why even believe in a God if folks here just want to make excuses for their sin that they know they will do in serving God?

Leave God out of your life if you want to sin.

God is holy and righteous.

The Lord is the opposite of what is evil and sinful. He cannot associate with it.

It is a massive deception Jason.

Look at this email exchange I had with the pastor of a church I used to attend...


Question

Hi there,

I was hoping you would be able to answer a question I have.

Is there any sin or sins that must be stopped before one can be forgiven by God? Is salvation related to actually stopping sin?

Thank you,

Scott

Response from pastor.

Wow, that’s a big question!
Most basically, of course, we must stop the sin of unbelief by believing the gospel message and trusting in God’s grace to save us. Other than that, I think that we must be willing to acknowledge and repent of any KNOWN sin. As we continue to grow in Christ, of course, He will make us aware of other sin in our lives, which, when confronted with them, we must be willing to confess and repent.
That’s a short answer to a big question, but I hope it’s helpful in some way.

My response back.

Thank you for your answer.

Does confessing and repenting of a known sin actually mean that one stops doing it?

For example, if an individual is addicted to pornography, gets drunk on a regular basis, lies, cheats or steals, do they have to actually stop doing these things before God will forgive them?

Thank you,

Scott

Second response from pastor.

No, I think that we must BE SORRY for our sin, and that we must WANT TO stop. However, it’s not humanly possible for us to totally stop sin in our lives. The gospel means that God saves us by His grace – not only when we initially trust Him as Lord and Savior, but for the rest of our lives as well. But we CAN trust Him, and that’s good news!

That is a typical answer from hundreds.

Pick a small town in the U.S. on the map. Contact all the pastors from the different churches in that town and ask them if a child molester has to stop molesting children before God will forgive them.

The ones who don't dodge the question will tell you that no they don't have to stop. I can count the exceptions to this answer out of hundreds of responses on one hand.

These people believe that one can be "saved" and at the same time raping babies.

It is absolutely mind boggling.

 

[Skinski7]

Here is the video that shocked me out of a slumber back in 2011.

[video=youtube;WU4D1iaHvWM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU4D1iaHvWM[/video]

Upon watching this video and several others I emailed the pastors in my town with the same questions and I got the same answers Mike got. Pastors told me that one could actually be engaged in wicked behaviour like child molestation and at the same time be justified.

I remember visiting one of the local pastors and we talked for several hours and he told me the same thing. He found my questions troubling because no-one had ever framed it in the manner where one is confronted with something as vile as child molestation. Yet he had to confess that he truly believed that one could engage in that activity and still enter the kingdom of God.

These folks are not real Christians. They are totally deceived even though they seem so well meaning.

When the pastors believe such a thing is it any surprise that the church system is full of sin? It's a complete joke to the rest of the world.

We live in very dark times.

 

[Jason0047]

I agree, we live in dark times, brother. Many self professing Christians today read their Bible and do not have any understanding in what it really says because they are trying to justify some type of sin in their life (Whether it be a little bit of sin or alot of sin). Some say that the believer will always strive for holiness, but yet they double talk and say that a believer can abide in willful unrepentant sin and be saved. It's wrong; Hence, why many attack other believers instead of discussing the Scriptures. They will always try to take the focus of God’s Word because many of them do not have any understanding to give an answer.

 

[Jason0047]

Whatever man......you say the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over......it's called ocd. You should get it treated before you start damaging relationships and people. What you got going on aint healthy.


You need to learn another song...theres more than one ya know. My nephew used to listen to Dirty Laundry by Don Henley...over and over. I hate that song thanks to him. With you...I'm getting close to my limit and the day is coming when I put you on ignore if you don't change your tune.

It's never wrong to preach the truth of God's Word and stand up for it repeatedly. It's never wrong to stand up repeatedly in doing that which is right and good. It's never wrong to tell people to follow Jesus so as to abide with Him. Yet, you do not want hear that, though. So you mock me and verbally attack me (Instead of discussing the Scriptures in love and respect).

 

[Jason0047]

Jason please stop trying to change the scriptures of Matthew 12:31 and Mark 3:28-29 to fit your theology, as the scripture from the words of the Lord Himself says all sin and blasphemy. Then it goes to say blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, not just blasphemy........You are changing scripture again, not me, for I will repost them again;


Matthew 12:31
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Mark 3:28-29
Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the only sin the Lord says is unforgivable, and all other forms of sins and blasphemy He says will be forgiven. The scriptures above clearly say all manner of sins besides the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will be forgiven. You are changing those scriptures by saying it doesn't say all when they do.....

In your response you said just blasphemy and left the Holy Spirit part off, but the scripture says blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Other blasphemies will be forgiven if repented/confessed of.......

The teaching about suicide did not come from my church, and it was the Catholic church that interjected the whole suicide is unforgivable. Other denominations followed suit on this lie, and here in the past 10 years even the Catholic church has came away from teaching this lie as the truth in the scriptures are being opened to them as well.
The Holy Spirit guides me in my teaching and not a church/denomination/or another person. The bible says that all sins except the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will be forgiven, and that the Lord will have mercy on who He will have mercy on. If you go and take that mercy and forgiveness out of the hands of the Lord by saying they can not be saved to, then you are speaking from yourself and not from the Spirit.

For the condition for one to be forgiven of a sin and saved is to confess that sin for forgiveness, and if you knew anything about suicides and actually studied the issue, which I know you haven't by your responses. Then you would know a good majority always ask for forgiveness.
When a person gets that far along it becomes a mental illness situation of a person who is not thinking straight and feel there is no other way out. We can apply that to those who have other illnesses that can not comprehend right from wrong. Are you going to say they are not saved also even though they do not know how to repent because they can not comprehend and understand the teaching to do so???

If you do then you do not know the Lords love and mercy properly............

You do not take God's word at face value as you read to much into some areas and make people who can and will be forgiven and say they can't be. God's word says they can be saved, you say they can't which makes you over righteous because you place others salvation in your own hands.

Show me were in the bible it says a person can only be forgiven if the repentance is made after the sin is done?
There is not one scripture that says a person can not ask forgiveness right before or during the act. That is your issue it seems because you think only after can forgiveness be asked, but the bible does not say that. That is you reading to much into the scriptures, or interjecting your own standards in the word.

Suicide is a sin that leads unto spiritual death. It is wrong and evil. There are no exceptions according to God's Word unless that person comes back to life so as to repent of their sin. However, such cases are rare and it is not advisable to say to another that they will come back to life so as to repent of it.

To say that a person can potentially be saved after committing suicide is to give a "green light" to every person who is thinking about committing suicide. They are not going to care about your words of how you shouldn't commit suicide, they just want to know if they will go to Hell or not over it. By your belief, you are giving them all the reason they need to kill themselves. So you will have to answer to God for any people who might read what you had written and then act upon it.

I mean, what if this was a child (Who is a believer) that was reading what you had written?

You would be actively giving that child the "green light" that they will not go to Hell if they kill themselves. You are leading them into sin and destruction and this is dark, evil, and wrong on many, many levels.

In fact, what does the Scriptures say if you lead a believing child into sin?

"But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea." (Matthew 18:6 NLT).

 

[Jason0047]

That is what the OSAS folk here are not getting. They are saying.... it is impossible to stop sinning. You will always sin. So a believing child who comes across this website and hears an OSAS proponent say such a thing is going to be led into thinking they can sin and still be saved.

So they would be actively leading a believing child into sin.

But Jesus said it would be better if a millstone would be tied around their neck and they were to drown at sea than to do so.

That is what people are not realizing here.

They have no idea of the depths of evil their belief goes (Which makes an allowance for evil).

 

[SarahM777]

It's never wrong to preach the truth of God's Word and stand up for it repeatedly. It's never wrong to stand up repeatedly in doing that which is right and good. It's never wrong to tell people to follow Jesus so as to abide with Him. Yet, you do not want hear that, though. So you mock me and verbally attack me (Instead of discussing the Scriptures in love and respect).

John 13

[SUP]34 [/SUP]“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. [SUP]35 [/SUP]By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

John 14

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“If you love me, keep my commands. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— [SUP]17 [/SUP]the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[SUP][c][/SUP] in you. [SUP]18 [/SUP]I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. [SUP]20 [/SUP]On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. [SUP]21[/SUP]Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]“All this I have spoken while still with you. [SUP]26 [/SUP]But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. [SUP]29 [/SUP]I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. [SUP]30 [/SUP]I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me, [SUP]31 [/SUP]but he comes so that the world may learn that I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me.

1 John 4

[SUP]7[/SUP]Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. [SUP]9 [/SUP]This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. [SUP]12 [/SUP]No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. [SUP]15 [/SUP]If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. [SUP]17 [/SUP]This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. [SUP]18 [/SUP]There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

[SUP]19[/SUP]We love because he first loved us. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. [SUP]21 [/SUP]And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.

Galatians 5

[SUP]13 [/SUP]You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[SUP][a][/SUP]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]15 [/SUP]If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[SUP][c][/SUP] you want. [SUP]18 [/SUP]But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; [SUP]20 [/SUP]idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions [SUP]21 [/SUP]and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

Jesus very clearly says that if one loves Him one will obey and keep His commands. Then He reverses the order the one who has His commands and DOES them is the one who LOVES Him.