Did you know the early church never gathered on Sunday?
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What does it matter if one person keeps the Sabbath on a Saturday and other person keeps it on a Sunday? Are we still under the Law? Or are we under Grace?
What matters is following Jesus Christ and doing the Will of the Father, not trying to keep the Law by observing the Sabbath on a certain day.
Colossians 2:16-23
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--
[SUP]17 [/SUP] things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!"
[SUP]22 [/SUP] (which all refer to things destined to perish with the using)-- in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
[SUP]23 [/SUP] These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.
Its all about following Jesus Christ, its not about trying to keep the Law.
What matters is following Jesus Christ and doing the Will of the Father, not trying to keep the Law by observing the Sabbath on a certain day.
Colossians 2:16-23
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--
[SUP]17 [/SUP] things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!"
[SUP]22 [/SUP] (which all refer to things destined to perish with the using)-- in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
[SUP]23 [/SUP] These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.
Its all about following Jesus Christ, its not about trying to keep the Law.
J
The guy who created this thread was creating all sorts of sabbath threads. He would use links, as some others did, in his posts, to websites that taught doctrines of the false prophet, Ellen White, and sneakily so. The websites didn't identify themselves, anywhere, as being Adventist. You had to dig to uncover the Adventist agenda.
They sneak around like this, trying to get converts. People really should study the cults, what they teach, to be able to identify their lies, as they do hide who they are, which I've always found amusing: they have to deceive, to seek converts, can't come into the light.
If we believe the account of creation, we then believe God rested on the Seventh Day.
If we believe God, then we believe the Seventh Day is a gift to us, a day to be kept separate from the other six days, making those six days ordinary and the Seventh special
If we believe it is the day of the week for Church and/or Bible school, I do not believe this is quite so. We are fee to worship God any day, and we should worship Him every day.
There is no argument that theSeventh Day follows the first six of creation.
With all the above in mind, if arguing when you go to church is the point, it is alredy made moot.
If we are accepting God's gift of a day to be spent specially with Him, I shold think it no different than accepting any other gift from Him, such as His Only Begotten Son.
It is not being under the law to accept a gift from God. It is vain glory to clain the Seventh Day hs been changed to the First day, even though we are free of the curse of the law. Remember Jesus Christ teaches us if a law does not contain mercy, it may be overlookde for He came to forgive, and not to condemn, and what is there to forgive? Breaking the law, correct? This is sin.
God bless all who are in Jesus Christ, andwho learn from Him, amen.
If we believe God, then we believe the Seventh Day is a gift to us, a day to be kept separate from the other six days, making those six days ordinary and the Seventh special
If we believe it is the day of the week for Church and/or Bible school, I do not believe this is quite so. We are fee to worship God any day, and we should worship Him every day.
There is no argument that theSeventh Day follows the first six of creation.
With all the above in mind, if arguing when you go to church is the point, it is alredy made moot.
If we are accepting God's gift of a day to be spent specially with Him, I shold think it no different than accepting any other gift from Him, such as His Only Begotten Son.
It is not being under the law to accept a gift from God. It is vain glory to clain the Seventh Day hs been changed to the First day, even though we are free of the curse of the law. Remember Jesus Christ teaches us if a law does not contain mercy, it may be overlookde for He came to forgive, and not to condemn, and what is there to forgive? Breaking the law, correct? This is sin.
God bless all who are in Jesus Christ, andwho learn from Him, amen.
E
First thing that must be addressed is the Sabbath(Day of Rest) is Saturday, do not confuse that with gathering at the Temple or Synagogue. In the OT the people of GOD Jews went in to present their offerings not for fellowship. Now in the NT where JESUS gave HIS LIFE as the Ultimate Sacrifice and rose on the third day which is Sunday. This is why GOD had Paul began to correct the churches.
Blessings!!!!!!!
Blessings!!!!!!!
J
Seventh-Day Adventists are Very Sneaky <-- click here
Well I believe in the account of creation as given in the original Hebrew. But I do not believe that God rested after six 24 hour days of creative work.
The word used is yom which means a period of time. Indeed 24 hour days are not mentioned in Genesis 1-2 at all. Yom is specifically defined there as meaning a period of light. And this is backed up by reference to evening and morning. Evening is the end of the period of light. Morning is the beginning of the period of light. They are never elsewhere used for night and day. It will be noted that the seventh yom had no evening and morning. It was continuous after creation. It was intended to be God's period of rest for Adam and Eve. But they messed it up.
Note that there is no mention of it being the Sabbath in Gen2. It was the yom in which God ceased work having fully completed it. There was no second seven days. The Sabbath was first mentioned and fixed for Israel in Exodus 16 and was dependent on the first day of the giving of the manna. Before that it was clearly not generally observed (it had to be explained by Moses). It is only linked with Gen 1-2 because of Moses' words in Exod 20. when the creation account was used as a pattern and example for it. Moses had noticed the similar pattern of God's activity and man's activity. But Gen 1-2 was speaking of God's yoms.not man's.
If we take it literally then Australia have to speak of creative acts taking place during the night, which is contrary to the account. Furthermore for a number of places the 'seventh day' has changed because of the alteration of the International dateline. Which should they observe, the old or the new?
No it was intended by God as an indication that God had planned a future rest for His people. There is no hint in Gen 2 that it was intended to be observed by man. And it had no close until man sinned and thrust the earth into darkness. Then as Jesus said God had to begin work again. The Sabbath was a sign to Israel, and to Gentile converts. The gift to us was the permanent rest that is ours in Christ (Heb 4.1-11)
There we can agree.
But there is argument about what 'yom' means. In context it does NOT mean what most make it mean.
if you mean we can go to church any day I will agree. The early church chose the first day (Acts 20.7)
The gift of His only SON was His gift of rest (Matt 11.28-30).
But we have no indication in Scripture as to how to fix the seventh day in the light of the creation story. It was not observed by Adam who was thrust out from God' rest.
Acting out the fact that we are sinful is sin. The Law simply made it apparent.
Amen for Jesus never demanded the observation of the Sabbath. Nor did the Apostles. Their silence was deafening.
The word used is yom which means a period of time. Indeed 24 hour days are not mentioned in Genesis 1-2 at all. Yom is specifically defined there as meaning a period of light. And this is backed up by reference to evening and morning. Evening is the end of the period of light. Morning is the beginning of the period of light. They are never elsewhere used for night and day. It will be noted that the seventh yom had no evening and morning. It was continuous after creation. It was intended to be God's period of rest for Adam and Eve. But they messed it up.
Note that there is no mention of it being the Sabbath in Gen2. It was the yom in which God ceased work having fully completed it. There was no second seven days. The Sabbath was first mentioned and fixed for Israel in Exodus 16 and was dependent on the first day of the giving of the manna. Before that it was clearly not generally observed (it had to be explained by Moses). It is only linked with Gen 1-2 because of Moses' words in Exod 20. when the creation account was used as a pattern and example for it. Moses had noticed the similar pattern of God's activity and man's activity. But Gen 1-2 was speaking of God's yoms.not man's.
If we take it literally then Australia have to speak of creative acts taking place during the night, which is contrary to the account. Furthermore for a number of places the 'seventh day' has changed because of the alteration of the International dateline. Which should they observe, the old or the new?
No it was intended by God as an indication that God had planned a future rest for His people. There is no hint in Gen 2 that it was intended to be observed by man. And it had no close until man sinned and thrust the earth into darkness. Then as Jesus said God had to begin work again. The Sabbath was a sign to Israel, and to Gentile converts. The gift to us was the permanent rest that is ours in Christ (Heb 4.1-11)
There we can agree.
But there is argument about what 'yom' means. In context it does NOT mean what most make it mean.
if you mean we can go to church any day I will agree. The early church chose the first day (Acts 20.7)
The gift of His only SON was His gift of rest (Matt 11.28-30).
But we have no indication in Scripture as to how to fix the seventh day in the light of the creation story. It was not observed by Adam who was thrust out from God' rest.
Acting out the fact that we are sinful is sin. The Law simply made it apparent.
Amen for Jesus never demanded the observation of the Sabbath. Nor did the Apostles. Their silence was deafening.
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Thank you for your input. Yes, there is 1,000 years, and I am aware we are verging on it. For reasons of the title of the thread I chose not to go into that at this time, although I have in other threads in the past. I am not here to indocrinate anyone into anythig, especially dogmas of various denominational teachings. What is important to know is touched upon. It is up to the seeker of trth to obtain all from the Word.,. God provides.
R
I guess that we have inherited the Roman callender too, the Julian callender named after Julius Cesar . I guess that July actually was anglesized name . They worship Cesar that month? Saturday was named after Saturn originally worship that planet in Rome. A lot of pagan deities in Rome. But Sunday was originally consecrated for Mithra the Sun God. They had not spelled it as in Sonday named after their risen son now did they? It is spelled Sunday.
The Catholic church changed the day of worship if you look into it. Check it out on youtube if you want. Jim
The Catholic church changed the day of worship if you look into it. Check it out on youtube if you want. Jim
What does it matter what day we keep Holy? Its not what day we keep Holy that counts. What matters is are you keeping one day more Holy than another because of Works? Are you doing this because its mandatory?
Anything you do because its mandatory is no longer being done in Love. If its not being done in Love for God then its a sin to do it.
Anything you do because its mandatory is no longer being done in Love. If its not being done in Love for God then its a sin to do it.
keeping a sabbath was a requirement under the law in the ot.
The provision of sabbath is given under the gospel of Christ.
What were requirements under the law in the ot are now freely given in Christ.
Loving God and loving your neighbor is required under the law in the ot.
The provision of Love is freely given under the gospel of Christ.
1 John 4:6-19
[SUP]6 [/SUP]We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]We love him, because he first loved us.
The law required. The Really Good News of the Gospel of Christ Provides to us who are in dire need.
Wouldn't it have been tragic if faithful Abraham would have denied the Provision of the substitute sacrifice but instead thought he had to fulfill the requirement of God telling him to sacrifice his son?
Wouldn't it be equally as tragic if we deny the Provision of Christ and instead think we must fulfill the requirements of the 10 commandments, or any of the other some 613 laws?
Isn't pretending to fulfill the law in your own strength and understanding disrespectful to the Provision that Christ has given?
Why would God send His Son for you if you could just fulfill His Law yourself?
Or is that the "fake it till you make it" mentality?
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
The provision of sabbath is given under the gospel of Christ.
What were requirements under the law in the ot are now freely given in Christ.
Loving God and loving your neighbor is required under the law in the ot.
The provision of Love is freely given under the gospel of Christ.
1 John 4:6-19
[SUP]6 [/SUP]We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]We love him, because he first loved us.
The law required. The Really Good News of the Gospel of Christ Provides to us who are in dire need.
Wouldn't it have been tragic if faithful Abraham would have denied the Provision of the substitute sacrifice but instead thought he had to fulfill the requirement of God telling him to sacrifice his son?
Wouldn't it be equally as tragic if we deny the Provision of Christ and instead think we must fulfill the requirements of the 10 commandments, or any of the other some 613 laws?
Isn't pretending to fulfill the law in your own strength and understanding disrespectful to the Provision that Christ has given?
Why would God send His Son for you if you could just fulfill His Law yourself?
Or is that the "fake it till you make it" mentality?
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Everyone seems to be on the approache they see only here without understanding the only true issue.
No matter what day people shoose to worship, and it may be any day, the creation took seven days.
God separated the Seventh Day as a day of rest, first for Himself after His six days of creation, and second as a gift to be kept as something special for all who believe.
I, for one, feel perfectly correct in worshipping God any and every day of the week, but for me to say the Seventh day has been changed to the first is a ver perverse notion, since the cration is given as it is by God in Gensis.
The Seventh Day will always be considered by most as a gift from God.
Do not confuse yourselves about how it is observed, or kept as many fanatics care to say. Jesus Christ has shown all that He desires mercy and not sacrifice; He came to forgive, not to condemn. Let us not condemn our family in Christ for having things personal, as a gift from God, they may seem to conflict, but, they do not.
All we need truly understand and folow is Christ crucified for our sins. I choose to obey the law as Jesus Christ teaches me, and I do not disallow for others to do or not to the same. All I ask is that all who claim to be saved by the Blood of Jesus Christ as I am saved will learn from Him before anyone else, for it is written to trust God only.
God bless all family in Jesus Christ.....amen.
No matter what day people shoose to worship, and it may be any day, the creation took seven days.
God separated the Seventh Day as a day of rest, first for Himself after His six days of creation, and second as a gift to be kept as something special for all who believe.
I, for one, feel perfectly correct in worshipping God any and every day of the week, but for me to say the Seventh day has been changed to the first is a ver perverse notion, since the cration is given as it is by God in Gensis.
The Seventh Day will always be considered by most as a gift from God.
Do not confuse yourselves about how it is observed, or kept as many fanatics care to say. Jesus Christ has shown all that He desires mercy and not sacrifice; He came to forgive, not to condemn. Let us not condemn our family in Christ for having things personal, as a gift from God, they may seem to conflict, but, they do not.
All we need truly understand and folow is Christ crucified for our sins. I choose to obey the law as Jesus Christ teaches me, and I do not disallow for others to do or not to the same. All I ask is that all who claim to be saved by the Blood of Jesus Christ as I am saved will learn from Him before anyone else, for it is written to trust God only.
God bless all family in Jesus Christ.....amen.
Mat 5:18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
*Please note, the above quote does not include the words "except the fourth Commandment." It includes them all.
1Co 11:1 Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ.
And what did Christ do?
Mar 1:21 Then they went into Capernaum, and immediately on the Sabbath He entered the synagogue and taught.
Mar 2:27 And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath."
Now which day was made for man? THE SABBATH!
Act 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.
Act 13:43 Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
Act 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.
So here instead of Paul setting these Gentiles straight about the Sabbath, HE TAUGHT THEM ON IT.
OH and about that falsehood that there is no command to keep the Sabbath in the New Testament...
Heb 4:9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
And the word for rest here is Sabbatismos and it means a keeping of the Sabbath. From the Diaglott...
Heb 4:9 Therefore remains a keeping of a sabbath for the people of the God.
Which day is that?
Heb 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS";
Now a change in circumcision, which is NOT one of the Ten Commandments, caused such an uproar that there had to be a church conference called to settle it...
Act 15:1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."
Act 15:2 Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question.
Yet there is not one word of dissension from ANY of the Judaizers about the change from the Sabbath to the first day of the week? Because it NEVER happened.
Interestingly enough, 300 hundred years later this edict was made...
“On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. (Given the 7th day of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them for the second time [A.D. 321].)” Source: Codex Justinianus, lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Vol.3 (5th ed.; New York: Scribner, 1902), p.380, note 1.
Please explain to me why Constantine had to make this edict if the early church was NOT keeping the seventh day Sabbath?
Mat 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
*Please note, the above quote does not include the words "except the fourth Commandment." It includes them all.
1Co 11:1 Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ.
And what did Christ do?
Mar 1:21 Then they went into Capernaum, and immediately on the Sabbath He entered the synagogue and taught.
Mar 2:27 And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath."
Now which day was made for man? THE SABBATH!
Act 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.
Act 13:43 Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
Act 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.
So here instead of Paul setting these Gentiles straight about the Sabbath, HE TAUGHT THEM ON IT.
OH and about that falsehood that there is no command to keep the Sabbath in the New Testament...
Heb 4:9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
And the word for rest here is Sabbatismos and it means a keeping of the Sabbath. From the Diaglott...
Heb 4:9 Therefore remains a keeping of a sabbath for the people of the God.
Which day is that?
Heb 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS";
Now a change in circumcision, which is NOT one of the Ten Commandments, caused such an uproar that there had to be a church conference called to settle it...
Act 15:1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."
Act 15:2 Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question.
Yet there is not one word of dissension from ANY of the Judaizers about the change from the Sabbath to the first day of the week? Because it NEVER happened.
Interestingly enough, 300 hundred years later this edict was made...
“On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. (Given the 7th day of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them for the second time [A.D. 321].)” Source: Codex Justinianus, lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Vol.3 (5th ed.; New York: Scribner, 1902), p.380, note 1.
Please explain to me why Constantine had to make this edict if the early church was NOT keeping the seventh day Sabbath?