OSAS doctrine denies the faith
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No. In Matthew 7 there will be believers who are told be Jesus to depart from him because they worked iniquity. Iniquity is sin. Iniquity is not recognizing that we must yield to God and allow Him to do the good work in us (Whereby we conform to the image of Christ). Oh, and the wonderful works is the miracles that the false believer has done in his name. But performing miracles is not what saves a person. Abiding in Christ and His Word is what willl save them.
Because the OSAS proponent is making an allowance for evil (Which is something God can never do). For if you allowed your son to steal, you would be just as guilty for allowing him to do so. Now, chastening is not a true deterrent for someone (Who is wicked) to stop sinning because even unbelievers go thru challenges in this life. Even believers who are righteous suffer like Job. The only real deterrent is one's status in the afterlife. For if you told your son that you were taking away dessert just one day out of the week because they were stealing, they probably wouldn't stop. It's not a real deterrent to make them stop.
Chastening of the Lord is only for those who truly are seeking God with all their heart like a David or an Abraham. It is for those who are pure of heart and are faithful and not for those who seek to serve sin and God their entire life. For Jesus said you cannot serve two masters.
Chastening of the Lord is only for those who truly are seeking God with all their heart like a David or an Abraham. It is for those who are pure of heart and are faithful and not for those who seek to serve sin and God their entire life. For Jesus said you cannot serve two masters.
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You obviously do not understand what happens when a man is saved by grace. You obviously do not understand how God deals with His children.
You cloak your false doctrine in red herrings that believers can sin with impunity which is not taught in the scriptures. Believers cannot lose or have their salvation revoked because it is a gift from God purchased at great price. The treasure is in earthen vessels that the excellency may be of God.
Those who are saved will testify that their walk with Christ proves that they cannot be without sin even after they are saved. They learn to depend upon God more and more as they face all the challenges and trials of this life. There are times when God allows us to fail that we might learn to trust Him and depend upon Him even more.
Failing is not loss of salvation but strengthening to face the next challenge with more dependence upon God and less reliance upon self.
One matures in the faith one is not mature from birth in the faith.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You cloak your false doctrine in red herrings that believers can sin with impunity which is not taught in the scriptures. Believers cannot lose or have their salvation revoked because it is a gift from God purchased at great price. The treasure is in earthen vessels that the excellency may be of God.
Those who are saved will testify that their walk with Christ proves that they cannot be without sin even after they are saved. They learn to depend upon God more and more as they face all the challenges and trials of this life. There are times when God allows us to fail that we might learn to trust Him and depend upon Him even more.
Failing is not loss of salvation but strengthening to face the next challenge with more dependence upon God and less reliance upon self.
One matures in the faith one is not mature from birth in the faith.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
B
Working iniquity is not what you think it to be. All iniquity is sin obviously, but being a worker of iniquity has nothing to do with having problems in the flesh concerning sin, but has to do with going against the throne of God, the purpose of God, the plan of God, the people of God, the word of God, the will of God and rejecting his Son and the cross of Christ. This describes the wicked. All men have the freedom to sin but there are wages for that. For the believer to live in sin his wages are in the form of sickness, chastening, scourging and even the sin unto death with the loss of all rewards, yet he will be saved as by fire (1Cor 3:15).
He that sows to the flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption which are those things that have no life. Jesus said that he had come that they could have life and life more abundantly. The lost that will be faced is contained in the more abundant life that has to do with this life and the next life to come. Every believer will have a degree of glory inwardly and outwardly. Some will shine like a 60 watt bulb and others will shine like a 200 watt bulb. The degree of glory is reflected in the amount of life and joy one has in the Lord throughout eternity and the opportunity one has to partake of the tree of life. Some will have free access and others will have to be invited. This is the kingdom of God and the kind of inheritance that each will have. Those who suffer with him shall also reign with Christ.
He that sows to the flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption which are those things that have no life. Jesus said that he had come that they could have life and life more abundantly. The lost that will be faced is contained in the more abundant life that has to do with this life and the next life to come. Every believer will have a degree of glory inwardly and outwardly. Some will shine like a 60 watt bulb and others will shine like a 200 watt bulb. The degree of glory is reflected in the amount of life and joy one has in the Lord throughout eternity and the opportunity one has to partake of the tree of life. Some will have free access and others will have to be invited. This is the kingdom of God and the kind of inheritance that each will have. Those who suffer with him shall also reign with Christ.
You are double talking. You say that a believer cannot sin without impunity and then double talk and say they cannot lose their salvation because of sin. What you believe is a contradiction. Also, sinning a little versus sinning a lot is not what God has in view for a believer's life. For it only took one sin to separate Adam and Eve from God. Why do you think you are better than them? Is God a respecter of persons?
Y
Are redemption and redeemed foreign to one another? I believe you are giving witness without exception; good. It would be helpful if we were able to understand creation language used correctly in Old Testament Law; primarily because law speaks of the things being prepared for. The sacrifice of a lamb to redeem the foal of a donkey, has been fulfilled. The words sacrifice and redeemed are both mentioned in this law. Not only is this language specific, it also reveals to us what part is actually redeemed. I don't see the word 'substituted' for. Even though this 'substituted for' was acted out in the Old Testament, it was specifically used to teach 'what type of death' that needed to take place. Some might be able to see, for us to be slain would not achieve what needed to take place. So the word 'substitute' does not properly address what is taking place; only that this type of death cannot redeem. Jesus does address this. It is a type of surrender to One who redeems. This is not easy to imbibe. A person would need to walk in Peter's shoes; a disciple who loved Jesus. In the latter part of the Book of John, Jesus asked Peter, "Do you love Me more than these?" The term 'love' is used by Jesus; but the reasoning of men would have it another way that seems right to a man. When Jesus revealed to Peter that it was the one thing Peter trusted most about himself, only then was Peter able to see that Satan had deceived the one thing Peter trusted most about himself; and it is in this very small space of time that Jesus revealed what type of death needed to take place. Paraphrasing; Before you clothed yourself in the security of things that seemed right to you, and you went where ever you wished; But now that you are older in wisdom, you will raise your arms and another will clothe you in the security of things known to be right by Jesus, and take you where you do not wish to go. It is by what had just taken place in Peter's life that Jesus was able to show Peter what type of death needed to take place.
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So did Abraham not substitute a ram for Isaac? It was not a type of surrender to One Who redeems. It was a substitutionary thank ogffering. This was a type of the GREAT SUBSTITUTE Who bore our sins in His own body on the tree. You are just making it up as you go along.
The only reason that the word substitute is not found in the Bible is simply because translators decided not to use it. The concept is found everywhere.
The only reason that the word substitute is not found in the Bible is simply because translators decided not to use it. The concept is found everywhere.
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You misrepresent the truth. As long as we abide in this tabernacle of flesh we are subject to it's weakness and we sin. Only when this body of flesh is transformed into a sinless body like unto His glorious body will we no longer sin.
The difference is that we do not enjoy sin and when we sin we learn to trust Christ even more.
Col 2:18-23 are worth a read. You cannot will to not sin and be entirely successful.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The difference is that we do not enjoy sin and when we sin we learn to trust Christ even more.
Col 2:18-23 are worth a read. You cannot will to not sin and be entirely successful.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
B
It is not twisting, it is understanding Jason. By your words you think I am of the devil because you assume that I condone sin or make excuse for others to sin. That is not true. Having or being a respecter of persons is also evil. Have you ever done it? Did you name it for what it is or do you have no idea what I am talking about? Do you live is personality rapport with others to the exclusion of those you have no rapport with? That is also evil. When you say an unkind word or slander a brother unintentionally, that is pernicious and unruly evil that comes from the tongue. David's heart smote him for even the thought of touching Saul's garment, when Saul was out to kill him. Yes, Saul, the anointed one of Israel, jealous of David because he killed his ten thousands. Have you ever touched a servant of God with your words, that was evil. Did you dismiss them as false brethren because you disagree with them, that was evil. Mariam, Moses sister, was struck by God with leprosy and sent outside the camp for seven days because she was critical of Moses marrying the Ethiopian woman. You never touch God's servant especially when God raised them up by grace for His purposes and not yours.
The Holy Inspired Scriptures plainly and clearly reveals that the 10 commandments is that of the OLD Covenant.
Exo 34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
Anyone who teaches that we Christians (Which are under the NEW Covenant) Are still bound to the covenant that The Lord Thy God made with Israel even calling those specific 10 commandments as a covenant between God and Israel. Anyone who teaches that we Christians are under the old covenant (10 Commandment) Does not know the Truth, nor the differences between the old covenant made Between God and Israel and the new covenant made Between God and Christians.
i could keep the 10 Commandments perfectly, and still go to Hell, because i fail to LOVE ONE ANOTHER as Commanded by Jesus Christ, or because i hate another, or because i fail to forgive others, or i do not walk in the light as to be covered by His Blood. So i could keep the 10 commandments perfectly and continue to hate my enemies. i can obey the 10 commandments perfectly and not go to Heaven because i did not forgive others. i can obey the 10 commandments perfectly and still end up in Hell Fire. Why, Because Christians are not under the old covenant,
False teachers teach that His commandments are the 10 commandments. Do not believe them, believe the Scriptures which plainly teach what His commandments are:
1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is His commandment, (Pay attention, the Apostle John is about to plainly tell us what His Commandments are) That we should 1) believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and 2) LOVE ONE ANOTHER, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
There you have it. Should i then believe those men who teach that His Commandments are the 10 Commandments or should i believe the Apostle John which plainly tells us what His Commandments are, that even children can understand it? The Apostle for sure.
Do not believe any person that teaches His Commandments are the 10 Commandments, that is CONTRARY to what the Apostle John plainly teaches us. They are false teaching, and the worse thing about it is, they who teach such things, REALLY believe they are teaching the Truth, they really believe what they are saying is True, they have reprobate minds, believing that which is NOT True, and worse yet teaching others the same false teaching. Do not listen to them, they think they do God service but do NOT.
Here is a tip for all. If you want to know if what you are teaching is False. Here is the KEY, which i can't take credit for as coming up myself, but is what God told me specifically. If What you teach contradicts even one verse in Scriptures, then what you teach is WRONG. Scriptures are True, if man teaches anything that contradicts Scriptures, they are teaching false things, and will not escape the wrath of God when it is poured out upon the world, and it does not matter if you believed in ignorance that what you were teaching was TRUE, because Holy Men of God have declared unto you the Truth, and you have rejected it, only to continue to teach your false doctrines.
Please note this message is not to the poster, but to all those who teach false doctrines.
^i^ Responding to Post 857
Exo 34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
Anyone who teaches that we Christians (Which are under the NEW Covenant) Are still bound to the covenant that The Lord Thy God made with Israel even calling those specific 10 commandments as a covenant between God and Israel. Anyone who teaches that we Christians are under the old covenant (10 Commandment) Does not know the Truth, nor the differences between the old covenant made Between God and Israel and the new covenant made Between God and Christians.
i could keep the 10 Commandments perfectly, and still go to Hell, because i fail to LOVE ONE ANOTHER as Commanded by Jesus Christ, or because i hate another, or because i fail to forgive others, or i do not walk in the light as to be covered by His Blood. So i could keep the 10 commandments perfectly and continue to hate my enemies. i can obey the 10 commandments perfectly and not go to Heaven because i did not forgive others. i can obey the 10 commandments perfectly and still end up in Hell Fire. Why, Because Christians are not under the old covenant,
False teachers teach that His commandments are the 10 commandments. Do not believe them, believe the Scriptures which plainly teach what His commandments are:
1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is His commandment, (Pay attention, the Apostle John is about to plainly tell us what His Commandments are) That we should 1) believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and 2) LOVE ONE ANOTHER, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
There you have it. Should i then believe those men who teach that His Commandments are the 10 Commandments or should i believe the Apostle John which plainly tells us what His Commandments are, that even children can understand it? The Apostle for sure.
Do not believe any person that teaches His Commandments are the 10 Commandments, that is CONTRARY to what the Apostle John plainly teaches us. They are false teaching, and the worse thing about it is, they who teach such things, REALLY believe they are teaching the Truth, they really believe what they are saying is True, they have reprobate minds, believing that which is NOT True, and worse yet teaching others the same false teaching. Do not listen to them, they think they do God service but do NOT.
Here is a tip for all. If you want to know if what you are teaching is False. Here is the KEY, which i can't take credit for as coming up myself, but is what God told me specifically. If What you teach contradicts even one verse in Scriptures, then what you teach is WRONG. Scriptures are True, if man teaches anything that contradicts Scriptures, they are teaching false things, and will not escape the wrath of God when it is poured out upon the world, and it does not matter if you believed in ignorance that what you were teaching was TRUE, because Holy Men of God have declared unto you the Truth, and you have rejected it, only to continue to teach your false doctrines.
Please note this message is not to the poster, but to all those who teach false doctrines.
^i^ Responding to Post 857
Dear Dave:
Not sure why you quoted my post and then say it was not addressed to me. Are you saying that I folow the 10 Commandments or the Old Covenant Law? Well, I do not believe the Old Covenant Law as a whole is no longer binding. But that does not mean certain moral laws from the Old Covenant have not been carried on over into the New Covenant, though. New Testament Scripture makes it clear that you cannot be a murderer and have eternal life abiding in you (1 John 3:15). Jesus said if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven by the Father (Matthew 6:15). There are certain commands given to us by Christ and the apostles that do have conditions that are attached to them. As far as I can tell, you agreed with this teaching. Are you changing your position on this?
Not sure why you quoted my post and then say it was not addressed to me. Are you saying that I folow the 10 Commandments or the Old Covenant Law? Well, I do not believe the Old Covenant Law as a whole is no longer binding. But that does not mean certain moral laws from the Old Covenant have not been carried on over into the New Covenant, though. New Testament Scripture makes it clear that you cannot be a murderer and have eternal life abiding in you (1 John 3:15). Jesus said if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven by the Father (Matthew 6:15). There are certain commands given to us by Christ and the apostles that do have conditions that are attached to them. As far as I can tell, you agreed with this teaching. Are you changing your position on this?
K
I had to respond to this because of this one statement you made that I highlighted, underlined, and enlarged.
You saying you could keep the 10 commandments perfectly, and not love is completely contradictory.
In order to follow the 10 commandments perfectly you would have to show love to God and to others, or you would not be able to keep them. Only through love can those commandments be fulfilled, for this is what the Lord Jesus and the Apostle Paul both said.
Mark 12:30
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mark 12:31
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Matthew 22:40
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
[h=1]Romans 13:9-10
For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,”[a] “You shall not covet,”[b] and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”[c] 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.[/h]
Those who teach the 10 commandments do not apply under the new covenant are the ones who teach falsely, as it is the laws written in the Mosaic laws as ordinances that was done away with. The moral concept of God's 10 commandments were not done away and are what is written on our hearts and minds, as it was the consequence of being stoned or put to death for breaking them.
Those ordinances no longer apply to believers, but the moral law does, and the consequence now for those who continue to break God's moral laws is judgment and the lake of fire. Spiritual death in the lake of fire is the wage for continuing in a sinful lifestyle;
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.