Mike Bickle's "Israel Mandate"
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Just be aware, Chica . . . I was nearly accused of being an idolater by Willie (While he is upset and hurt that someone or others have nearly called him this or that or Satan.) simply because I was in disagreement with Willie's statement: You do realize, don't you, that the Bible is not "authoritative." Nowhere does it make that claim. All that is ever said is that the Scriptures are "inspired" and can be used to do some teaching.
Don't try to make it any more than that, and you won't get yourself upset when one man happens to write differently than another one does.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/113845-major-problems-marks-account-jesus-resurrection-appearances.html#post2082931
I am not a worshipper of a book. Just because I believe it is God's word and profitable unto every good work, does not mean I worship the book itself. I seek to worship God. The God of the Bible. But not the book itself.
I watched the video that Popeye posted on this thread. The message? Not Bible. Not at all. It was a man boosting his own ego. He's a comedian. He did not use the Bible. No teaching given from the scripture. None. Zero.
It's not just him. Thousands and thousands of souls go to church and are entertained. They hear all but the Bible.
I hope and pray Willie will believe the Bible is our standard and source of authority.
Catholics and Mormons believe exactly as Willie does that the Bible is not our authority. Sad. Lost souls.
Don't try to make it any more than that, and you won't get yourself upset when one man happens to write differently than another one does.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/113845-major-problems-marks-account-jesus-resurrection-appearances.html#post2082931
I am not a worshipper of a book. Just because I believe it is God's word and profitable unto every good work, does not mean I worship the book itself. I seek to worship God. The God of the Bible. But not the book itself.
I watched the video that Popeye posted on this thread. The message? Not Bible. Not at all. It was a man boosting his own ego. He's a comedian. He did not use the Bible. No teaching given from the scripture. None. Zero.
It's not just him. Thousands and thousands of souls go to church and are entertained. They hear all but the Bible.
I hope and pray Willie will believe the Bible is our standard and source of authority.
Catholics and Mormons believe exactly as Willie does that the Bible is not our authority. Sad. Lost souls.
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Could you list the Chapter, verse and Book in the Bible where it is says in black, white or Red the Bible is our Authority?
2 Tim 3.16-17 says:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]All Scripture is [SUP][a][/SUP]inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for [SUP][b][/SUP]training in righteousness; [SUP]17 [/SUP]so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
You stated that the Bible is our authority, where is that found in the Bible? If by implied authority I agree with you, If you are stating the Bible itself says it is our authority and not implied, you would be wrong and I would like you to show me int he Word where it says that.
2 Tim 3.16-17 says:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]All Scripture is [SUP][a][/SUP]inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for [SUP][b][/SUP]training in righteousness; [SUP]17 [/SUP]so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
You stated that the Bible is our authority, where is that found in the Bible? If by implied authority I agree with you, If you are stating the Bible itself says it is our authority and not implied, you would be wrong and I would like you to show me int he Word where it says that.
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well yeah...that is why we should all follow Jesus in whatever denom or non-denom we find ourself in or whatever
(very nicely ambiguously put by me so that all sides are covered haha)
yeah there is more as you said, craziness going on there...but that is explained by the fact that you just do not turn someone with no discernment or experience loose on a congregation with the thought that all things are from the Holy Spirit...since that is an open door for the nuts (unlearned but thinking they don't need a teacher because they have the Holy Spirit)
However, the dead wood in many churches is fit only for the fire
(very nicely ambiguously put by me so that all sides are covered haha)
yeah there is more as you said, craziness going on there...but that is explained by the fact that you just do not turn someone with no discernment or experience loose on a congregation with the thought that all things are from the Holy Spirit...since that is an open door for the nuts (unlearned but thinking they don't need a teacher because they have the Holy Spirit)
However, the dead wood in many churches is fit only for the fire
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Are we speaking about signs and wonders or the Holy Spirit? Unbelievers may need signs and wonders but Christians are not supposed to be seeking them
I am not a cessationist...as some of my posts attest...but I don't think this is really about signs and wonders...I'm thinking it is about the usual things believers cross words with when it comes to things of this nature
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Unbelievable and pathetic.
And Joshua you are a sly one. You've been agreeing with Willie on the thread I listed every step of the way. Now you try to turn tables here. Questions of mine to Willie's statement of which you followed and LIKEd remain unanswered. Unanswered.
Notice Willie refers to the gospel. Where's that? In the Bible? Not our authority!
And Joshua you are a sly one. You've been agreeing with Willie on the thread I listed every step of the way. Now you try to turn tables here. Questions of mine to Willie's statement of which you followed and LIKEd remain unanswered. Unanswered.
Notice Willie refers to the gospel. Where's that? In the Bible? Not our authority!
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Here...I took the lazy way out and didn't look up the scripture myself
Question: "Why do so many people seek after signs and wonders?"
Answer:Our God is a God of wonders (Psalm 136:3-4). As the Creator and Sustainer of all that is, God has the power to suspend natural laws in order to fulfill His purposes. Miracles were a part of the ministries of Moses, Elijah and Elisha, and of course Jesus and the apostles, and their miracles primarily served the purpose of confirming their message as being from God (Hebrews 2:3-4). Today, many people still seek to experience the miraculous, and some will go to great lengths to have that experience. There may be many reasons for such a desire, and Scripture gives us at least five:
1. Some people seek after signs and wonders because they want confirmation of the truth of God. There is nothing inherently wrong with this desire. In fact, God willingly gave signs to Moses (Exodus 4:1-9) and Gideon (Judges 6:11-22) to confirm His word. Miracles can aid a person’s coming to faith, as inJohn 2:23, “Many people saw the miraculous signs he was doing and believed in his name.”
However, there comes a time when enough miracles have been performed—the truth has been proved—and it is time to exercise faith. When Moses hesitated to obey after a series of miracles at the burning bush, “the LORD’s anger burned” (Exodus 4:14).
Also, it is nobler in God’s sight to believewithoutneeding a miracle. Jesus visited the Samaritans, and “because of hiswordsmany more became believers” (John 4:41, emphasis added). Just a few verses later, Jesus rebukes the Galileans: “Unless you people see miraculous signs and wonders . . . you will never believe” (John 4:48). Unlike the Samaritans, the people of Galilee required signs and wonders.
2. Some people seek after signs and wonders because they do not believe the signs and wonders which have already been performed. The Pharisees ofMatthew 12were just such a lot. Jesus had been performing miracles for quite some time when a group of scribes and Pharisees came to Him with an insolent demand to see another sign. In response, Jesus condemned them as “wicked and adulterous” (Matthew 12:38-39).
They were “wicked” in that they refused to believe the signs and wonders Christ had already performed. “In spite of his wonders, they did not believe” (Psalm 78:32). Their hearts were hardened towards the truth, even after numerous public miracles. Nothing would make them believe; their hearts were as pharaoh’s, hardened after witnessing so many of Moses’ miracles in Egypt (Exodus 9:34-35).
They were “adulterous” in the spiritual sense, having left the true worship of God to follow a man-made set of rules and traditions. Not satisfied with the miracles Jesus was doing, they demanded something even greater. As commentator Matthew Barnes puts it, “They looked for signs of their own devising.” So entrenched was their rejection of Christ that, when later presented with the “sign of the prophet Jonah” (Christ’s resurrection,Matthew 12:39-40), they still would not believe.
3. Some people seek after signs and wonders because they seek an occasion to excuse their unbelief. There were people in Jesus’ day who “tested” Him by seeking a sign (Matthew 16:1;Luke 11:16). Since they specified that the sign be “from heaven,” they most likely wanted something spectacular, similar to Elijah’s calling down fire from the sky (1 Kings 18:38) or Isaiah’s causing the sun to reverse course (Isaiah 38:8). Probably, their “test” was designed to be something “too big” for Jesus to accomplish—they simply hoped He would attempt it and fail in the attempt.
4. Some people seek after signs and wonders because they are curious thrill-seekers. Like the crowds inJohn 6:2and King Herod inLuke 23:8, they want to see something sensational, but they have no real desire to know the truth of Christ.
5. Some people seek after signs and wonders because they hope to get something for themselves. After Jesus fed the multitudes, a large crowd followed Him to the other side of Galilee. Jesus saw their true motivation, however, and rebuked it: “I tell you the truth, you are looking for me, not because you saw miraculous signs but because you ate the loaves and had your fill” (John 6:26). The crowd’s desire was not to know Christ or even to see more miracles; it was simply to fill their stomachs again.
Better than seeking after a new miracle is taking God at His Word. Simple faith is more pleasing to the Lord than a reliance on a dazzling sensory experience. “Jesus told him, ‘Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed’” (John 20:29).
Read more:Why do so many people seek after signs and wonders?
I found a great article where this guy was in a movement called the "Walk" and then went on to be in the Vineyard and how the Vineyard and Charismatics are empbracing the same cultic tendecies as the Walk.
Here are a couple of excerpts from his article after he was born again, the TB is for "Toronto Blessing":
"TB people were often told not to pray, as it hindered their ability to receive the “blessing”. Instead, they were often counseled to remain silent and just be open to receive. [16] This made no sense to me at all. How could praying ever hinder the Holy Spirit?
Also, why the drunken behavior and loss of control that totally contradicted everything the Word had to say about the Spirit of God?[17] I had spent weeks in a very manifest, tangible sense of His presence after my conversion and I came away from the experience with a greater understanding and renewed love for the great truths of the Bible. Never once did I lose control or feel “drunk”. The Holy Spirit is a Spirit of clarity and sobriety, of truth and wisdom, Who comes to give us greater knowledge of Christ through an increased understanding of His Word. But these revival drunks were descending into a mindless stupor as they staggered around in a fog, falling over each other. The drunks gained no greater love for the Word as a result of their so-called meeting with God. All they wanted was “more, Lord, more”.
This was in total contrast to my own experience of God’s presence, which was marked by great clarity and left me with a greater love for the written Word and a new joy in reading it. I saw old, familiar Bible truths in a new, clear light that made them fresh and amazingly wonderful."
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"There is no doubt that the Walk was a cult. Cult experts are agreed on that and the same cultic tendencies and ideas we had in the Walk are being embraced by Vineyard and Charismatic circles: end-time elitism, Apostolic restoration, mysticism, exaltation of the prophetic and revelatory word, mindless acquiescence to prophetic leadership and directives, marginalization of Scripture, to name but a few."
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Like Esau people in these movements have sold their birthright (born again) in the Holy Spirit for a bowl of pottage that these movements are claiming to know the truth about.
The article is long but welllllllll worth the read.
The Cults and the Charismatic Church
Here are a couple of excerpts from his article after he was born again, the TB is for "Toronto Blessing":
"TB people were often told not to pray, as it hindered their ability to receive the “blessing”. Instead, they were often counseled to remain silent and just be open to receive. [16] This made no sense to me at all. How could praying ever hinder the Holy Spirit?
Also, why the drunken behavior and loss of control that totally contradicted everything the Word had to say about the Spirit of God?[17] I had spent weeks in a very manifest, tangible sense of His presence after my conversion and I came away from the experience with a greater understanding and renewed love for the great truths of the Bible. Never once did I lose control or feel “drunk”. The Holy Spirit is a Spirit of clarity and sobriety, of truth and wisdom, Who comes to give us greater knowledge of Christ through an increased understanding of His Word. But these revival drunks were descending into a mindless stupor as they staggered around in a fog, falling over each other. The drunks gained no greater love for the Word as a result of their so-called meeting with God. All they wanted was “more, Lord, more”.
This was in total contrast to my own experience of God’s presence, which was marked by great clarity and left me with a greater love for the written Word and a new joy in reading it. I saw old, familiar Bible truths in a new, clear light that made them fresh and amazingly wonderful."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"There is no doubt that the Walk was a cult. Cult experts are agreed on that and the same cultic tendencies and ideas we had in the Walk are being embraced by Vineyard and Charismatic circles: end-time elitism, Apostolic restoration, mysticism, exaltation of the prophetic and revelatory word, mindless acquiescence to prophetic leadership and directives, marginalization of Scripture, to name but a few."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Like Esau people in these movements have sold their birthright (born again) in the Holy Spirit for a bowl of pottage that these movements are claiming to know the truth about.
The article is long but welllllllll worth the read.
The Cults and the Charismatic Church
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You cannot differentiate. Signs and wonders were done by the power of the Holy Spirit, not by anything within those who exhibited the miraculous gifts.
The only unbelievers that needed affirmation of the testimony of Christians were the ones that had no Scripture other than the Old Testament, and no knowledge of Christ, or perhaps even no knowledge of either -- think the Greeks and Asians of Paul's day. Today's unbelievers have had the Bible for a little over 1,900 years, and the testimonies of millions of Christians who can testify to the power and glory of Christ through what He has done for them.
I am, as you may have gathered from some of my posts. I don't believe miraculous gifts are for today, based on the massive amounts of testimony as aforementioned, and based on my understanding of 1 Corinthians 13, particularly 8-10.
Yes, God heals. But He doesn't need someone standing up in front of a congregation, or worse, a television camera, doing it. And He does miraculous healing only very rarely. He gave us godly doctors, nurses, and other medical professionals to provide His healing, in most cases.
As for tongues and "prophetic utterings," I don't believe they are practiced by people who understand the biblical basis for them, and therefore they do not practice them correctly. Bad biblical understanding can be far worse than no biblical understanding.
The only unbelievers that needed affirmation of the testimony of Christians were the ones that had no Scripture other than the Old Testament, and no knowledge of Christ, or perhaps even no knowledge of either -- think the Greeks and Asians of Paul's day. Today's unbelievers have had the Bible for a little over 1,900 years, and the testimonies of millions of Christians who can testify to the power and glory of Christ through what He has done for them.
I am, as you may have gathered from some of my posts. I don't believe miraculous gifts are for today, based on the massive amounts of testimony as aforementioned, and based on my understanding of 1 Corinthians 13, particularly 8-10.
Yes, God heals. But He doesn't need someone standing up in front of a congregation, or worse, a television camera, doing it. And He does miraculous healing only very rarely. He gave us godly doctors, nurses, and other medical professionals to provide His healing, in most cases.
As for tongues and "prophetic utterings," I don't believe they are practiced by people who understand the biblical basis for them, and therefore they do not practice them correctly. Bad biblical understanding can be far worse than no biblical understanding.
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The only thing I notice is that you cannot back up your christian culture statement, which says the Bible states the Bible is our final authority.
Again, please list the book, chapter and verse where this is found in the Bible.
This is the exact same thing like Christians saying the Bible says God hates the sin, but loves the sinner, which is not found anywhere in the Bible. This thought is implied in scripture, but not actually stated anywhere in scripture.
The exact statement is "Love the sinner, hate the sin!" and it is a quote from Mahatma Gandhi. I find it really silly that self professed protestant Christians run around telling the world: God loves the sinner, but hates the sin, and a majority of them have no clue it is a quote from someone they would then try to witness to and convert from Hinduism.
The BIble as our Final Authority is an implied thought, but not found anywhere in scripture. Your upset because you did not understand the context willie was correcting you with. I side with him because, number 1 is he is right and number 2 he schooled you, and you are too proud to admit it.
Again, please list the book, chapter and verse where this is found in the Bible.
This is the exact same thing like Christians saying the Bible says God hates the sin, but loves the sinner, which is not found anywhere in the Bible. This thought is implied in scripture, but not actually stated anywhere in scripture.
The exact statement is "Love the sinner, hate the sin!" and it is a quote from Mahatma Gandhi. I find it really silly that self professed protestant Christians run around telling the world: God loves the sinner, but hates the sin, and a majority of them have no clue it is a quote from someone they would then try to witness to and convert from Hinduism.
The BIble as our Final Authority is an implied thought, but not found anywhere in scripture. Your upset because you did not understand the context willie was correcting you with. I side with him because, number 1 is he is right and number 2 he schooled you, and you are too proud to admit it.
This is like saying 'the Trinity is not found in Scripture only implied'. Well in a sense it is found in Scripture through comparing Scripture with Scripture. The question should be 'is it true according to Scripture?' otherwise this is straining at a gnat.
Does this passage carry final Authority?...
Galatians 1:8-9 (KJV)
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Is it God's Word? That's enough for me.
Does this passage carry final Authority?...
Galatians 1:8-9 (KJV)
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Is it God's Word? That's enough for me.
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LOL!...I will only explain myself from the Bible anyhow so no difference
Signs and wonders are supposed to FOLLOW believers...according to Jesus...asking for them is a sign of unbelief
BTW, that whole big ole copy/paste and that is your response? The entire thing is biblically sound...you want me to make up something?
OK...here we go: Because I said so, that's why...now go sit down and eat your sandwich and if you are good (and I define good...not you) you can go outside and play in the rain later with the kid next door but don't get wet or you will be in big trouble when your father gets home and by that I mean no TV (meant for a laugh don't be offended)
why can't I explain myself......
What sort of sign should a believer ask for? 'Hello..God? Can you prove yourself to me?
People use Gideon as their role model...knowing the will of God...what is acceptable to Him...means a person has to know the word and that is work, time and effort
Gideon didn't have Holy Spirit indwelling him and he didn't have the NT...
If you actually read the response I gave above, you will have a host of biblical reasons why I wrote what I did
Study...what do you care about my reasons? My reason is based on scripture