Which laws are and are not valid?

[Biblelogic01]

All that mixed fiber stuff was the law of Moses which was done away with when Jesus died on the cross (I think) at some point it was done away with and Jesus gave us new commands. However the Ten Commandments are still relevant and valid today.

I know technically the scripture on it in Deuteronomy 22 is not directed at any group singularly, but if you do studies on the Levitical Priests, their garnments had to be made a specific way. So, and I may be wrong, but I do believe the mixing of fibers mainly pertained due to this, to make sure the preists did not mix the fibers.

 

[conniek]

Hi Matthew,
I believe that the Ceremonial laws were nailed to the cross, but not the 10 Commandments. The 10 Commandments were written with the finger of God Exodus 31:18;32:16. Jesus also says ”And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for 1 tittle of the law to fail” Heaven nor earth has passed away. Most Christians have no problem obeying 9 of the Commandments, but have a real problem with the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] one as I used to. I thought the Sabbath was Jewish, but the Bible doesn’t teach that.
You may find this interesting. Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 4, p. 153. “The church after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath or seventh-day of the week to the first, made the third commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord’s day.”
There are many articles that show that the day of worship was changed from the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day (Saturday) to the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] day (Sunday). I can post some if you would like. You can also look up Roman Empire Constantine and how he changed the Sabbath. I follow God not man. From the beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first.”
Jesus says in John 14:15 If you love me keep my commandments. If we are not to keep the 10 commandments than what does that mean? James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point he is guilty of all. So if we lie, but don’t steal we are still guilty of breaking all. Does that make sense? Please let me know if you would like the history of how the Sabbath was changed. I learned about it November of 2012. I was amazed. I just never knew. Also read 1 John 2:3,4.
You see Matthew although I didn’t know it I was seeking truth and God led me to it.
God bless you,
Connie

 

[KohenMatt]

All that mixed fiber stuff was the law of Moses which was done away with when Jesus died on the cross (I think) at some point it was done away with and Jesus gave us new commands. However the Ten Commandments are still relevant and valid today.

How does Jesus make a distinction between the 10 commandments being relevant, but the rest of the law being done away with?

And why would Jesus say that He didn't come to do away with the Law, if He supposedly came to do away with the Law?

(By the way, the mixed fiber instruction provides a great spiritual lesson as well. You'll be blessed and encouraged if you get a chance to take a look at it.)

 

[Elin]

How does Jesus make a distinction between the 10 commandments being relevant, but the rest of the law being done away with?

And why would Jesus say that He didn't come to do away with the Law, if He supposedly came to do away with the Law?

See his complete statement. . .he came to fulfill it.

Jesus contrasted "doing away with the law" with "fulfilling the law," which he came to do, and which he did,
paying its penalty for the sin of those who believe in him,
accomplishing its purpose of righteousness, through faith in him rather than law keeping,
fulfilling, completing, accomplishing, finishing it, setting it aside as the means of righteousness (Heb 7:18-19),
replacing it with the new covenant Law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39; 1 Co 9:20-21; Gal 6:2; Jas 2:8)
which is the law fulfilling all law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13: 8, 9, 10).

That's why. . .

(By the way, the mixed fiber instruction provides a great spiritual lesson as well. You'll be blessed and encouraged if you get a chance to take a look at it.)

A great NT spiritual lesson:

Do not mix the right things in the wrong way.

In justification, do not mix law with grace (Gal 2:16), or works with faith (Eph 2:8-9).
In the new birth, do no mix man's decision with God's election (Jn 1:13).

 

[tribesman]

...A great NT spiritual lesson:

Do not mix the right things in the wrong way.

In justification, do not mix law with grace (Gal 2:16), or works with faith (Eph 2:8-9).
In the new birth, do no mix man's decision with God's election (Jn 1:13).

Well said. Most heb rooters have enormous difficulties of taking this in.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How does Jesus make a distinction between the 10 commandments being relevant, but the rest of the law being done away with?

were the ten commands in effect in noahs day? they were were they not? or did they just become sins in Moses day?

And why would Jesus say that He didn't come to do away with the Law, if He supposedly came to do away with the Law?

do people still need saved? then the schoomaster still needs to work.

 

[Elin]

were the ten commands in effect in noahs day? they were were they not? or did they just become sins in Moses day?

Well, actually there was no law between Adam and Moses and, therefore, there was no sin (transgression of the law) taken into account (Ro 5:12-21).

do people still need saved? then the schoomaster still needs to work.

The school master was given to the people of God, not to the Gentiles.

The Gentiles are brought into the people of God through the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, actually there was no law between Adam and Moses, and therefore there was no sin, which is transgression of the law, taken into account (Ro 5:12-21).

I did not ask if there was a law. I asked if murder was a sin, or if it was not.

The school master was given to the people of God, not to the Gentiles.

it was given to Israel, but for the benefit of everyone. she just kept it for herself. and miss-applied it. Paul proves this in the book of Galatians. it should lead us to christ too, as we see by the law what paul saw through the law.

The Gentiles are brought into the people of God through the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[JaumeJ]

From our sister, Joiedevivre..........the best explanation of being a child of obedience I have seen in the forums.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Re:
The Law of Faith Established [/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I've always
understood it as the Old Covenant required obedience to the law. The
New Covenant requires surrender to Christ. Only then can God's laws
be written on a person's heart and mind.

Wasn't faith here
before even the law? Abel's sacrifice showed faith. Abraham, etc.....
[/FONT]

 

[Elin]

were the ten commands in effect in noahs day?

Well, actually there was no law between Adam and Moses and, therefore, there was no sin (transgression of the law) taken into account (Ro 5:12-21).

I did not ask if there was a law. I asked if murder was a sin, or if it was not.

I understood you to be asking about the entire Decalogue.

it was given to Israel, but for the benefit of everyone. she just kept it for herself.

But the bible does not show that. . .remember, Israel had to remain separate from the Gentiles for the sake of avoiding defilement.
They were in no position to interact with Gentiles to give them the word of God.

The Gentiles are now brought into the people of God through the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

and miss-applied it. Paul proves this in the book of Galatians.

Actually, they flat out disobeyed it.

Would you please show where Galatians explains that Israel was to give the word of God to the Gentiles.

it should lead us to christ too, as we see by the law what paul saw through the law.

But remember Paul was a Jew...
and Romans was written to the Jewish Christians in Rome. . .Gentiles are not Jews and did not have the law as Paul did and the Jewish Christians did.

 

[Elin]

From our sister, Joiedevivre..........the best explanation of being a child of obedience I have seen in the forums.
Re:
The Law of Faith Established

I've always
understood it as the Old Covenant required obedience to the law.

Understood which:

The law established by faith, or

Faith established by the law, or

both?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I understood you to be asking about the entire Decalogue.

no just the ten

But the bible does not show that. . .remember, Israel had to remain separate from the Gentiles for the sake of avoiding defilement.
They were in no position to interact with Gentiles to give them the word of God.

1. Jonah and nineva
2. King davids grandmother as well as many other gentiles who converted

Israel had to be separate as far as how they lived. not as far as interactions, God was supposed to be showing the world through Israel who he was.

The law was supposed to teach gentiles as well as Israel how sinful they were, because they could not live up.

The Gentiles are now brought into the people of God through the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Many gentiles were made people to god in the OT.

Actually, they flat out disobeyed it.

same difference, when you missaply it, you disobey it.

Would you please show where Galatians explains that Israel was to give the word of God to the Gentiles.

Paul wrote to the galation (gentile) church, and claimed the law was GIVEN as a schoolmaster to lead us (jew and gentile alike) to Christ.

what more do you need?

But remember Paul was a Jew...
and Romans was written to the Jewish Christians in Rome. . .Gentiles are not Jews and did not have the law as Paul did and the Jewish Christians did.

so the law was unable to teach them?

 

[Biblelogic01]

Well, actually there was no law between Adam and Moses and, therefore, there was no sin (transgression of the law) taken into account (Ro 5:12-21).

The school master was given to the people of God, not to the Gentiles.

The Gentiles are brought into the people of God through the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Um, Elin, if there was no sin between Adam and Moses, then why did God wipe out Sodom and Gemorah? 0_o
God called them wicked and sinful. . . . .

 

[Elin]

no just the ten

Sorry, I wasn't clear. . .the Decalogue is the Ten Commandments, which I understood you to be asking about, and which code was not given in the time between Adam and Moses (Ro 5:12-21).

1. Jonah and nineva
2. King davids grandmother as well as many other gentiles who converted

But Scripture nowhere indicates in these accounts that Israel was to be engaged in on-going activity of presenting the word of God to the Gentiles in their own lands, even though some Gentiles did come into Israel to become part of the people of God.

Israel had to be separate as far as how they lived. not as far as interactions,

Interaction is how they became defiled, by touching the things which were defiled from simply having been touched by a defiled Gentile.

God was supposed to be showing the world through Israel who he was.

And this he did in his mighty saving acts regarding the nation of Israel.

The law was supposed to teach gentiles as well as Israel how sinful they were, because they could not live up.

That is neither in the OT nor the NT.

same difference, when you missaply it, you disobey it.

Well, actually they are different.

Misapplication is ignorance, disobedience is willful rebellion.

Paul wrote to the galation (gentile) church, and claimed the law was GIVEN as a schoolmaster to lead us (jew and gentile alike) to Christ.

what more do you need?

Context would be helpful. . .

Paul was addressing the problem of Judiazers insisting that the Galatian Gentiles had to keep the law to be saved.

Paul is explaining in Galatians the purpose for which the law was given to Israel--a temporary school master, ending with the new covenant--to show that the Galatian Gentiles did not have to come under it in the new covenant in order to be saved.

Galatians does not indicate that the Gentiles were given, nor ever under, the law.

 

[Elin]

Um, Elin, if there was no sin between Adam and Moses, then why did God wipe out Sodom and Gemorah? 0_o

God called them wicked and sinful. . . . .

I'm thinking your answer is in Ro 5, get it from there. . .and then get back to me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. . .the Decalogue is the Ten Commandments, which I understood you to be asking about, and which code was not given in the time between Adam and Moses (Ro 5:12-21).[/quote[

romans 1 will answer your question. Gods law written in everyone's heart, no excuse.

But Scripture nowhere indicates in these accounts that Israel was to be engaged in on-going activity of presenting the word of God to the Gentiles in their own lands, even though some Gentiles did come into Israel to become part of the people of God.

Interaction is how they became defiled, by touching the things which were defiled from simply having been touched by a defiled Gentile.

And this he did in his mighty saving acts regarding the nation of Israel.

That is neither in the OT nor the NT.


Well, actually they are different.

Misapplication is ignorance, disobedience is willful rebellion.


Context would be helpful. . .

Paul was addressing the problem of Judiazers insisting that the Galatian Gentiles had to keep the law to be saved.

Paul is explaining in Galatians the purpose for which the law was given to Israel--a temporary school master, ending with the new covenant--to show that the Galatian Gentiles did not have to come under it in the new covenant in order to be saved.

Galatians does not indicate that the Gentiles were given, nor ever under, the law.

I still think your confusing what I am saying. The law condemns everyone, because everyone falls short of its requirement. that has never changed, all that changed is god placed it in stone on the mountain.

I am speaking of moral law. not civil or ceremonial. ceremonial was always a schoolmaster to the ones to whome would come during and after christ. he fulfilled it.

 

[Biblelogic01]

Also Elin, looking some of what you've said. God did separate Israel from gentiles, but He also allowed gentiles to join Israel. You should study it a little bit better. I even did a thread on this.

Now yes there were certain civilizations God had Israel stay away from, but that's because they were evil and God was having Israel pruge out evil from the promise land.

You either need to re-read it, or you should invest in some reading glasses.

 

[Elin]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. . .the Decalogue is the Ten Commandments, which I understood you to be asking about, and which code was not given in the time between Adam and Moses (Ro 5:12-21).

romans 1 will answer your question. Gods law written in everyone's heart, no excuse.

Read it again. . .it says nothing about God's law. . .nor it being written on anyone's heart.

It's about the existence of God himself.

I still think your confusing what I am saying. The law condemns everyone, because everyone falls short of its requirement.

The law condemns all who are under it (Gal 3:10).
Gentiles not under the law are condemned by their conscience (Ro 2:12, 14-15).
Those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Ro 1:18) will be judged by the truth
(Ro 2:2).

that has never changed, all that changed is god placed it in stone on the mountain.

It never was. . .

I am speaking of moral law. not civil or ceremonial. ceremonial was always a schoolmaster to the ones to whome would come during and after christ. he fulfilled it.

It was not the ceremonial law which showed Paul his sin, it is the Decalogue that was the schoolmaster.

It is the law which was the old covenant (Ex 34:28b); i.e., the Decalogue.

It is this law (Decalogue) that is not the means of righteousness, which is only by faith (Ge 15:6).

 

[Biblelogic01]

So Elin, wtih what you are saying, is if someone has no conscience, then they cannot sin. So serial killers and psycopaths are not sinning because they have no conscience.

I don't buy that, sorry.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Read it again. . .it says nothing about God's law. . .nor it being written on anyone's heart.

It's about the existence of God himself.

it says they not only knew what was sin (righteous judgment) not only do it, but teach others to do it.

The law condemns all who are under it (Gal 3:10).
Gentiles not under the law are condemned by their conscience (Ro 2:12, 14-15).
Those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Ro 1:18) will be judged by the truth
(Ro 2:2).

yep. the law will condemn everyone, written in heart or on stone. it does not matter. for all have sinned and fall short. a gentile could not know they were in sin if Gods moral law was not written on their heart.

your under law or grace there is no inbetween

It was not the ceremonial law which showed Paul his sin, it is the Decalogue that was the schoolmaster.

I never said it was now did I?

It is the law which was the old covenant (Ex 34:28b); i.e., the Decalogue.

It is this law (Decalogue) that is not the means of righteousness, which is only by faith (Ge 15:6).

not sure how this responds to what I said.