Which laws are and are not valid?

[Elin]

Also Elin, looking some of what you've said. God did separate Israel from gentiles, but
He also allowed gentiles to join Israel.

Read my post again. . .

Joining Israel does not equate to Israel mixing it up with unbelieving Gentiles.

NB: The law was the wall of partition separating and causing the enmity between Jew and Gentile,
whom Jesus reconciled on the cross (Eph 2:14) by abolishing that law in his flesh (Eph 2:15). . .
and thereby also reconciling the one body of Jew and Gentile to God (Eph 2:16).

 

[Elin]

So Elin, wtih what you are saying, is if someone has no conscience, then they cannot sin. So serial killers and psycopaths are not sinning because they have no conscience.

I don't buy that, sorry.

Good for you. . .because that applied only under the OT.

In the NT everyone condemned is for one sin, and one sin only. . .unbelief (Jn 3:18, 36)..

 

[Biblelogic01]

I'm thinking your answer is in Ro 5, get it from there. . .and then get back to me.

You obviously pick in choose which scriptures you read.

God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah due to their wickedness.
Wickedness = sin.
That happenned before Moses
Are you chooses to not believe this happenned?

 

[Biblelogic01]

Good for you. . .because that applied only under the OT.

In the NT everyone condemned is for one sin, and one sin only. . .unbelief (Jn 3:18, 36)..

Ok, so you support abortion, murder, homosexuality, theivery, sodomy, witchcraft, etc. (I can go on, and on).

I believe it states to repent of your sins, which means turn away from your sins.
If someone does not turn away from their sins, they are blind and living falsely, therefor not believing.

And I'm not mentioning the law in all this, I'm just mentioning basic common stuff that is plain out wrong.

 

[Elin]

Read it again. . .it says nothing about God's law. . .nor it being written on anyone's heart.

It's about the existence of God himself.

it says they not only knew what was sin (righteous judgment) not only do it,

Connect the dots between what the sin was (Ro 1:19-21) and
God's judgment on that sin (Ro 1:24),
which judgment was more sin, giving them over to all manner of sin (Ro 1:25-32),
as the result of the sin of vv. 19-21, not based on the law.

but teach others to do it.

Nor does it say "teach others to do it."

 

[Elin]

I'm thinking your answer is in Ro 5, get it from there. . .and then get back to me.

You obviously pick in choose which scriptures you read.

God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah due to their wickedness.
Wickedness = sin.
That happenned before Moses
Are you chooses to not believe this happenned?

Non-responsive. . .

 

[Biblelogic01]

Read my post again. . .

Joining Israel does not equate to Israel mixing it up with unbelieving Gentiles.

NB: The law was the wall of partition separating and causing the enmity between Jew and Gentile,
whom Jesus reconciled on the cross (Eph 2:14) by abolishing that law in his flesh (Eph 2:15). . .
and thereby also reconciling the one body of Jew and Gentile to God (Eph 2:16).

There are laws on how to welcome Gentile into a Jewish home, and it's welcoming and not condemn.
There are also laws on conversion from Gentile to Jew in the Torah.
So obviously, if God made those "laws"/instructions, He obivously was not just thinking about those coming out of Egypt.
So from the very beginning there was technically "no jew no gentile" in God, there was Israel, and there was no Israel.
A lot of people do not want to accept that God still calls His people Israel.

 

[Elin]

Ok, so you support abortion, murder, homosexuality, theivery, sodomy, witchcraft, etc.

As much as you do. . .

Your statement is called a straw man. . .and a silly one at that.

 

[Biblelogic01]

No, I'm just asking, because you said no conscience = no sin.
So if someone has no bad conscience on these things, you are saying they are not sinful.
That's what you stated in your answer to my question.

 

[Elin]

Read my post again. . .

Joining Israel does not equate to Israel mixing it up with unbelieving Gentiles (edit: going into Gentile territory).

NB: The law was the wall of partition separating and causing the enmity between Jew and Gentile,
whom Jesus reconciled on the cross (Eph 2:14) by abolishing that law in his flesh (Eph 2:15). . .
and thereby also reconciling the one body of Jew and Gentile to God (Eph 2:16).

There are laws on how to welcome Gentile into a Jewish home, and it's welcoming and not condemn.
There are also laws on conversion from Gentile to Jew in the Torah.
So obviously, if God made those "laws"/instructions, He obivously was not just thinking about those coming out of Egypt.
So from the very beginning there was technically "no jew no gentile" in God, there was Israel, and there was no Israel.
A lot of people do not want to accept that God still calls His people Israel.

Non-responsive. . .

 

[Elin]

No, I'm just asking, because you said no conscience = no sin.

Review the record. . .that's what you said, you won't find it stated anywhere by me.

 

[Biblelogic01]

You're stating there is only one sin. Which is not true.
There's only 1 way to salvation, and that's through Yeshua.
That does not mean there is only 1 sin.
You have your theology mixed up.

 

[Elin]

You're stating there is only one sin. Which is not true.
There's only 1 way to salvation, and that's through Yeshua.
That does not mean there is only 1 sin.
You have your theology mixed up.

Read it again. . .

 

[KohenMatt]

A great NT spiritual lesson:

Do not mix the right things in the wrong way.

In justification, do not mix law with grace (Gal 2:16), or works with faith (Eph 2:8-9).
In the new birth, do no mix man's decision with God's election (Jn 1:13).

Well said. Most heb rooters have enormous difficulties of taking this in.

Unfortunately this happens more often than it should, where people equate their works, even works of the Law, to gaining righteousness or salvation. However, I can say from personal experience that there are many Law/Torah keepers who make the proper recognition that salvation is by grace only, independent of works.

I pray more people see that distinction.

 

[KohenMatt]

See his complete statement. . .he came to fulfill it.

Jesus contrasted "doing away with the law" with "fulfilling the law," which he came to do, and which he did,
paying its penalty for the sin of those who believe in him,
accomplishing its purpose of righteousness, through faith in him rather than law keeping,
fulfilling, completing, accomplishing, finishing it, setting it aside as the means of righteousness (Heb 7:18-19),
replacing it with the new covenant Law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39; 1 Co 9:20-21; Gal 6:2; Jas 2:8)
which is the law fulfilling all law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13: 8, 9, 10).

That's why. . .


A great NT spiritual lesson:

Do not mix the right things in the wrong way.

In justification, do not mix law with grace (Gal 2:16), or works with faith (Eph 2:8-9).
In the new birth, do no mix man's decision with God's election (Jn 1:13).

I agree with a lot of what you said here, especially the proper relationship between the law and righteousness.

 

[mcubed]

This is a great question. There are some laws for the Jew only, some for every human, and some Y-shua already fulfilled. Kosher laws G-d gave for us Jews only that separates us as a people. Like most of G-d’s word He reviled more as time went by and circumcision that once for Jews and for anyone who wanted to belong to G-d but then latter He reviled it is circumcision of the heart for the whole world , so physical circumcision is for the Jew only. Now personally I believe the Sabbath is Saturday for everyone because G-d did not change the last day of the week. Some disagree I don’t care between you and G-d my personal opinion. The sacrificial law… all fulfilled in Y-shua of course … DONE. The moral law the kingdom of G-d is the here and the not yet and until Y-shua returns as holy people we must know the more law of G-d, not to be saved, but to know how to be Holy for G-d is Holy. As for feast, I will always celebrate them they are my G-d given rite of passage, sort of speak, now a non-Jew no, but I think it would behoove people to know that G-d created a lunar calendar and not a solar calendar and in my personal opinion since G-d did fulfill the first feast down to the day the Passover and first fruits with Pentecost then more than likely He will fulfill the latter feast the same way with the return of Y-shua on feast of trumpets and Yum Kapoor. Absolutely as Jews we should never stop being Jewish and give up our G-d given heritage and stop celebrating the feast. The non-Jews should consider making holy what G-d makes holy and maybe find a special blessing. … And I do not mean giving money to TV preachers. What would happen if you took Yum Kapoor in the lite of Y-shua and fasted and spent 24hrs with G-d alone, no outside world, just asking….

 

[JaumeJ]

Smuels, inspired by the Holy Spirit, spoke the following:

1Sa 15:22

And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

 

[TMS]

Like all of Gods set order the Devil tries to push us to either side of the mark. To put all the laws together and say any law in the OT is not valid unless it is repeated in the NT is one extreme and to say that they all apply today is another extreme.
The OT laws are all important for teaching us about The unchanged God today. But which ones are valid? its not about faith and works, most agree that keeping the law, (no matter which one) will not make you saved. Why obey any laws at all? Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments.
The laws about food are being found to be more and more valid by modern science today and personal experience tells me people that obey them are living longer and healthier lives.
The laws for sacrificing and the temple service's where fulfilled in christ. Each of the cerimonial laws can be linked to the process of salvation that Christ fulfilled. (He is our high priest in heaven now).
Sometimes it is hard to know if it's valid or not, did jesus fulfill that law?, did it just apply to the Jews?, did that covenant end or get broken and who did the covenant apply to?
most of these qestions have been answered in previous posts. Rev12:17
1John 3:4 There most be a valid Law today because sin is valid.
Matt 22:36-40
Jeremiah 31:31-33

 

[just-me]

Like all of Gods set order the Devil tries to push us to either side of the mark. To put all the laws together and say any law in the OT is not valid unless it is repeated in the NT is one extreme and to say that they all apply today is another extreme.
The OT laws are all important for teaching us about The unchanged God today. But which ones are valid? its not about faith and works, most agree that keeping the law, (no matter which one) will not make you saved. Why obey any laws at all? Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments.
The laws about food are being found to be more and more valid by modern science today and personal experience tells me people that obey them are living longer and healthier lives.
The laws for sacrificing and the temple service's where fulfilled in christ. Each of the cerimonial laws can be linked to the process of salvation that Christ fulfilled. (He is our high priest in heaven now).
Sometimes it is hard to know if it's valid or not, did jesus fulfill that law?, did it just apply to the Jews?, did that covenant end or get broken and who did the covenant apply to?
most of these qestions have been answered in previous posts. Rev12:17
1John 3:4 There most be a valid Law today because sin is valid.
Matt 22:36-40
Jeremiah 31:31-33

In my estimation the church of today is oblivious to the fact that by forsaking the law that God gave to Israel, for the purposes of governing themselves properly, is the reason this world is in such a mess. The law is for the lawless, and the law is good if it is used lawfully. By the church ministering that the law has been made void, and using Jesus Christ as the reason, causes spiritual adultery against God Almighty. The question then is "who is the harlot?"

This question should consume our minds; "If Satan is the dragon that gives power to the beast, and the beast is the dominant world power in the last days, could it be that the beast received its power because the world church has rejected the righteous government described in God's law that was given to Israel?

There is a reason that we still have it written form for our understanding, and instruction in righteousness. If it wasn't important, do we actually believe that God would have preserved it with the rest of His holy Word? It's in our face!!

 

[Elin]

This is a great question. There are some laws for the Jew only, some for every human, and some Y-shua already fulfilled. Kosher laws G-d gave for us Jews only that separates us as a people. Like most of G-d’s word He reviled more as time went by and circumcision that once for Jews and for anyone who wanted to belong to G-d but then latter He reviled it is circumcision of the heart for the whole world , so physical circumcision is for the Jew only. Now personally I believe the Sabbath is Saturday for everyone because G-d did not change the last day of the week. Some disagree I don’t care between you and G-d my personal opinion. The sacrificial law… all fulfilled in Y-shua of course … DONE. The moral law the kingdom of G-d is the here and the not yet and until Y-shua returns as holy people we must know the more law of G-d, not to be saved, but to know how to be Holy for G-d is Holy. As for feast, I will always celebrate them they are my G-d given rite of passage, sort of speak, now a non-Jew no, but I think it would behoove people to know that G-d created a lunar calendar and not a solar calendar and in my personal opinion since G-d did fulfill the first feast down to the day the Passover and first fruits with Pentecost then more than likely He will fulfill the latter feast the same way with the return of Y-shua on feast of trumpets and Yum Kapoor. Absolutely as Jews we should never stop being Jewish and give up our G-d given heritage and stop celebrating the feast. The non-Jews should consider making holy what G-d makes holy and maybe find a special blessing. … And I do not mean giving money to TV preachers. What would happen if you took Yum Kapoor in the lite of Y-shua and fasted and spent 24hrs with G-d alone, no outside world, just asking….

I'm thinking we have God's provision for the new covenant in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and the gospel of grace.