Which laws are and are not valid?

JaumeJ · May 30, 2015

When have I alluded to th eletter of the law. Read my sharing of the word. You look to the letter of the law. We exceed the righteousnous of the Pharisees because the law is written on our hearst. When we know the teachings of Jesus Christ we also know how to be perfect in grace while doing our best to obey the law according to Jesus Christ.

The Phaisees were hypocritical in declaring themsleves perfect under the law, without the tutilege of the Master, and without grace. This claim is false for any man to make, even a saved believer.

As for what you say to what Jesus is making reference is something other than the flow of which He was teaching in the quote, I would have to say this is an opinion not based on the texts afforded, and the words of Christ.

michael56 said:

michael56 · May 30, 2015

Where did I state in my post you personally alluded to the letter of the law? The christian does not look to the literal letter, for the letter kills but the spirit gives life. What you consider just an opinion is far more than that I can assure you. If a person looks to the literal letter for obedience and believes attaining to such obedience to inherit eternal life they must and will neglect the love of God in the process as Christ said the Pharisees did. If a person believes they can attain heaven by obedience to the literal letter they do not rely on the love, mercy and compassion of God, they neglect it, for they believe they will attain heaven by what they succeed in doing. They have the broken the first and most important commandment
Many today insist heaven is attained to be obeying the ten commandments. I have been to churches where this is stressed, yet the people who most try to adhere to this show the least love, mercy and compassion to their fellow man so the second most important commandment is bring broken also.
Human nature has not changed in 2000 years, neither the misunderstanding of many who to to church. Only the holy spirit can turn on the light. If one were to limit the value of the apostles letters to other parts of the bible they would not be able to appreciate such truth

JaumeJ · May 30, 2015

As per alluding to the law, it was a ball handed over to me. A natural reaction is to pick it up. What I post is never engraved in stone, but I do believe whatver our Lord has taught is something more than a suggestion, therefor, I try to pass it on accurately with sstudy and prayer in the background. However, having said all this, what counts for you and for all is sthe teaching of Jesus Christ, the gospel first preached to Abraham, and understanding by the Holy Spirit.

God bless you and keep you always in His Word, amen.

michael56 · May 30, 2015

Absolutely, faith was credited to abraham as his righteousness for the law had not then been given. Faith is the christians right standing before God also. However some dilute the true message and say your rightstanding before God is faith plus....
But as Jesus said. Many after drinking the old wine don't want the nw, for they say. The old is better. Therefore a hybrid covenant is often preached and believed. Preach a diluted message and you get diluted results

BS · May 30, 2015

yaright said:

only to add the first part of the scriptures: "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass..."

))

We all are part of the Body and must hold on together without tearing the Words of God apart of old and new!!!
The whole WORD is written by the HOLY SPIRIT!
1 Cor 12
11. But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12. For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ.
13. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14. For the body is not one member, but many.
15. If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16. And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17. If the whole body [were] an eye, where [were] the hearing? If the whole [were] hearing, where [were] the smelling?
18. But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19. And if they were all one member, where [were] the body?
20. But now [are they] many members, yet but one body.
21. And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22. Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23. And those [members] of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely [parts] have more abundant comeliness.
24. For our comely [parts] have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that [part] which lacked:
25. That there should be no schism in the body; but [that] the members should have the same care one for another.
26. And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27. Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

God bless all!

yaright · May 30, 2015

I have given examples of Jesus fulfilling Old Testament laws and words of the prophets. The first indication of my response came under a different thread, which spoke of commandments. My reference was to the 10 commandments which Jesus addressed directly concerning the first two commandments being kept also fulfilled all 10 of the commandments.I have no reason to believe my response was out of line. But now that my response is being used in the text of laws, many speak of laws and words of the prophets as a mystery. I would like to caution that the reason for the mystery has everything to do with not knowing creation language which these laws were and are originally written in. If everything Jesus said and did is the fulfillment of law and words of the prophets, than where is the interpreter of creation language among these religions that intentionally make the things Jesus did into no purpose or value. Many do not understand that with each passing generation where law and words of the prophets have been fulfilled, does not mean with the next generation are automatically fulfilled; because with each generation are new disciples being taught by the Spirit of Christ; even as we are today being taught. Do not be fooled by those religions that teach some laws and words of the prophets without creation language. For the lack of ability to interpret creation language, they turn everything into a mystery as if these cannot yet be known. The stance I take on this is to seek Christ. He is our teacher. Just as important, do not allow yourself to be convinced that any one of the christian religions know more than Jesus Christ. That is a lie. To know this is not a personal interpretation. But knowing this causes me to trust in Jesus 'more than these.' The actual words Jesus spoke were, "Do you love Me more than these?" That is not a private interpretation. But if you have not learned this yet, does not mean I have anything against you. My response is seek Jesus for the greater understanding of all things. To repeat His words are one thing, but to say them with personal understanding of how these living words have made you stronger, there is no greater healer than Jesus Christ.

JaumeJ · May 30, 2015

I have heard this interpretation of the wine and the skins many times. My original understanding of the wine was life previous to Jesus Christ. AFter we accept Jesus Christ, we ae served the better wine, that is the life of Christ in us.

We are made new because of Christ. His Holy Spirit leads us to all truth.

As for obeying God; no one may say in truth that disobedience is of the Holy Spirit. Now, Jesus Christ has demonsstrated and taugth us just how to be obedient, but we cannot be obedient withouut the Holy Spirit conveyingthis truth to us. It is one of those mysteries that everyone seems to explain, that is, being obedient yet living in grace.

The complete understanding of this is learning from the Master, believing Him and doing as He teaches. God bless all who do His word, amen..-.

michael56 said:

BS · May 30, 2015

yaright said:

John 14
6. Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
10. Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

BS · May 30, 2015

Luke 16:31. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

BS · May 30, 2015

michael56 said:

Agreed!
about the preachers is written:
Ezekiel 34

1. And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2. Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
3. Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.
4. The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.
5. And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.
6. My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.
7. Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
8. As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;
9. Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
10. Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.
11. For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.
12. As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.
13. And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.
14. I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and in a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel.
15. I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord GOD.
16. I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.
17. And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats.
18. Seemeth it a small thing unto you to have eaten up the good pasture, but ye must tread down with your feet the residue of your pastures? and to have drunk of the deep waters, but ye must foul the residue with your feet?
19. And as for my flock, they eat that which ye have trodden with your feet; and they drink that which ye have fouled with your feet.
20. Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD unto them; Behold, I, even I, will judge between the fat cattle and between the lean cattle.
21. Because ye have thrust with side and with shoulder, and pushed all the diseased with your horns, till ye have scattered them abroad;
22. Therefore will I save my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and cattle.
23. And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.
24. And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it.
25. And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods.
26. And I will make them and the places round about my hill a blessing; and I will cause the shower to come down in his season; there shall be showers of blessing.
27. And the tree of the field shall yield her fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase, and they shall be safe in their land, and shall know that I am the LORD, when I have broken the bands of their yoke, and delivered them out of the hand of those that served themselves of them.
28. And they shall no more be a prey to the heathen, neither shall the beast of the land devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and none shall make them afraid.
29. And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more.
30. Thus shall they know that I the LORD their God am with them, and that they, even the house of Israel, are my people, saith the Lord GOD.
31. And ye my flock, the flock of my pasture, are men, and I am your God, saith the Lord GOD.

And I am recently wondering - how will look like the angel of the churches/of the Revelation/ ? Or it is not the time yet?

michael56 · May 30, 2015

If you understand the message given by Christ to paul to preach you understand how obedience is to be achieved-by faith rom 1:5 for sin shall not be your master for you are not under law but under grace rom 6:14.

BS · May 30, 2015

michael56 said:

Agreed again. The point - if The One has proved He is care about you, then what you will do after receiving the gift - will you trusts in Him follow Him? Because there is time to pass and:
1 Peter 1
17. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear:
18. Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers;
19. But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20. Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21. Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
22. Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23. Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24. For all flesh [is] as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25. But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Because it is written also:

1 Peter 2:
1. But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
4. For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5. And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth [person], a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6. And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned [them] with an overthrow, making [them] an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7. And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8. (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed [his] righteous soul from day to day with [their] unlawful deeds

9. The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10. But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous [are they], selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
11. Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
12. But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13. And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, [as] they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots [they are] and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14. Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15. Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam [the son] of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16. But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
17. These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18. For when they speak great swelling [words] of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, [through much] wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

JaumeJ · May 30, 2015

Obedience is not achieved by faith, we are counted as perfect becaue of our faith. Even so, the law is not abolished. There are yet many prophesies concerning Christ yet to be accomplished. If you believe when Christ uttered " It is finished" on th ecross that this is to be interpreted He had completed all of the law and the prophets, you might consider that it is instead a reference to the petition He made in prayer the night previous, in the garden.

BS · May 30, 2015

BS said:

Correction of myself - it is from 2 Peter 2

BS · May 30, 2015

JaumeJ said:

To me the obedience is motivated by faith and achieved by deeds. I believe that The LORD knows what is good about me better than I know so I will do what He wants me to do and I will Not do what He do not like me to do. Just imagine your husband/wife to tell "something like that: " look I love you and I am faithful but I refuse and I wont do anything in the house - you will do all what have to be done!"

michael56 · May 30, 2015

JaumeJ said:

Do you believe you have greater spiritual understanding than had the apostle Paul? He said obedience comes from faith rom 1:5 I do not believe ut wise to refuse to accept the message given by Christ to payl to preach for to do so is to reject christs message given for us

BS · May 30, 2015

michael56 said:

Gal. 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

michael56 · May 30, 2015

BS said:

Gal. 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.[/QUOte
How many scriptures should I quote that speak of warning against error and boldly proclaiming the truth. Your quote was ill advised in this instance

BS · May 30, 2015

michael56 said:

BS said:

Error?
ill? I am sorry if you misunderstood me - I meant that here we know the part and when we all get together there will be whole picture, so according it - I think we shell talk peacefully searching the God and keep on His way. To use the word of God to harm someone is dangerous because it is like sword - can harm in both directions. That was my point - only to prevent someone. If you think you know the meaning of the scriptures better than me - it is ok - I never claim nor will say the opposite! I neither will recommend my understanding nor myself. I do not know enough and that is why I am searching the mercy and grace of God. If you wanna say something with love - just do it. I will be appreciated. If my words has harmed you - I beg you to excuse me - I never wanted to harm or insult anyone here. Was talking scriptures because verses make the other verses crystal understandable. Do not you agree that whole Bibile is inspired by God?

michael56 · May 30, 2015

Yes the whole bible is inspired by God, as the requirement of animal sacrifices for sin were under the old covenant for example that are written in the bible. I think you understand where I am going here. I did not personally feel offended by your quoted verse of scripture to me, more suprised at your decision to quote it concerning the conversation you responded to.

Which laws are and are not valid?

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