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J
your body stays in the grave your spirit returns to God.Jesus on the cross Luke 23:46 father, into thy hands i commend my spirit.acts 7:59 and they stoned Steven, calling upon God, and saying Lord Jesus ,receive my spirit.Ecclesiastes 3:20 and 12: 7 All go unto one place,all are of the dust,and all turn to dust again.....then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it ....in Christ's Love Jesse
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B
It is the clear teaching of scripture that, at the moment of death, believers go directly into the presence of God. The apostle Paul said, "I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better" (Phil. 1:23). Paul is saying at the very moment after physical death occurs, he will be with Christ. How do we know this? it is clear from the Greek text. Without going into too much detail an aorist infinitive ("to depart") is linked by a single article with a present infinitive ("to be with Christ"). The infinitives thus belong together" 'The single article ties the two infinitives together, so that the actions depicted by the two infinitives are to be considered two side of the same thing, or two sides of the same coin. So Paul is saying that the very moment after he departs the body or dies, he will be with Christ in heaven. Moreover, for believers "to be absent from the body" is to be "present with the Lord."
We read in 2 Cor. 5:6-8.. 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. The Greek of this passage is highly revealing. The phrases "at home in the body" and absent from the Lord" in the first part of the passage are present tenses (which indicate continuing action). Hence, we might paraphrase it: Therefore being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are continuing to be at home in the body we are continuing to be absent from the Lord."
By contrast, the latter part of the passage contains two aorist infinities: "absent from the body" and "present with the Lord." Such infinitives indicate a sense of "once for all". We might paraphrase this: "We are of good courage, I say, and prefer to be absent from the [mortal, perishable] body and to be once for all present with the Lord."
It's also noteworthy to that the Greek word "pros" is used for with in the phrase to be "present with the Lord." This word suggests very close (face-to-face) fellowship. It is a word used of intimate relationships. Paul was expecting to have intimate fellowship with Christ immediately following his death here on earth.
We read in 2 Cor. 5:6-8.. 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. The Greek of this passage is highly revealing. The phrases "at home in the body" and absent from the Lord" in the first part of the passage are present tenses (which indicate continuing action). Hence, we might paraphrase it: Therefore being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are continuing to be at home in the body we are continuing to be absent from the Lord."
By contrast, the latter part of the passage contains two aorist infinities: "absent from the body" and "present with the Lord." Such infinitives indicate a sense of "once for all". We might paraphrase this: "We are of good courage, I say, and prefer to be absent from the [mortal, perishable] body and to be once for all present with the Lord."
It's also noteworthy to that the Greek word "pros" is used for with in the phrase to be "present with the Lord." This word suggests very close (face-to-face) fellowship. It is a word used of intimate relationships. Paul was expecting to have intimate fellowship with Christ immediately following his death here on earth.
P
Dear friends, I to believe that when we die, we go to be with the Lord, in a spiritual form, on judgement day , our bodies in the grave will rise and be transformed and reunite with our spirits, like Jesus said, today you will be with me in paradise, I believe the word paradise is just another name for heaven, take care.....
wouldn't be so sure about that...
Rev 6:9 And when He had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the Word of God, and for the testimony which they held.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received his mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 6:9 And when He had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the Word of God, and for the testimony which they held.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received his mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
So do you believe that a person's spirit (or soul) is dead when it returns to God ? (Acts 7:59). I think it is alive. It is just our spirit/soul cannot die.. see Matt 10:28, which says the soul cannot be killed. Remember there are two deaths, the first death which is the death of the body, and second death which is death of the body and soul in hell (Matt 10:28), where only God can kill the soul not humans. The bible teaches the body returns to the earth but the spirit goes to God. That spirit is us, it is who we are, the body is just a shell. Anyone who has had an out of body experience, experiences this - the spirit/soul can exist outside of the body. The spirit contains all our memories, thoughts, feelings, emotions and we keep those. The only way the spirit can communicate with God and other spirits/angels is via thoughts and expressions. So we will be in God's presence and able to experience that. But it won't be a complete experience until we are given our new immortal spiritual bodies:
There is a spiritual body and also a natural body,
1Co 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Remember that at the resurrection we will "put on" a spiritual body that is immortal, and we will be like the angels... sort of like changing clothes really..
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
There is a spiritual body and also a natural body,
1Co 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Remember that at the resurrection we will "put on" a spiritual body that is immortal, and we will be like the angels... sort of like changing clothes really..
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
C
It's funny that Jesus didn't ascend until the forty days were over when Jo. 7:38-39 states: " He t hat beliverth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39) (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that belive on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) So, between these verses and the first evening that Jesus appeared in the room and "breathed" on them and they received the Holy Ghost (Jo. 20:23) he had to ascend as he told Mary Magdalene "I ascend unto my Father, and my God...(Jo.20:23)". You twist "touch" to your interpretation, will you twist "ascend" also? It doesn't state "I will ascend" (furture tense), but "I ascend" (present tense).
J
Hi,
This post is long, and I did not read all of it. It appears that the conversation has switched, but I did read the post about the rich man and Lazarus parable. This may have already been answered, and if so I apologize.
First, I agree with the posters that we are asleep not in heaven or in hell. We should not build an entire doctrine on one or two verses, but at the same time we all know that the Bible is in inspired of God so if there is a contradiction there must be an explanation. A fast explanation of the rich man and Lazarus. I'll try to make this short. It is located in Luke 16:19-31. The only reason that I have ever heard that this is more then just a parable is that the character Lazarus is given a name. In no other parables is a character given a name. However, we know people in heaven and hell will not be communicating. How mother or father enjoy heaven, and trust God's eternal love while they watched their son burning in eternal torture and pleading with them for help? That is not Biblical so we know that Jesus is using symbols here.
I belief that the reason Lazarus is named is found in the last part of the parable when the rich man is asking that Lazarus be sent back from the dead to warn the people. Answer the rich man gets is vs 29-31 "They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them 30 and he said Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them form the dead they will repent 31 and he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets neither will they be persuaded though one rose from the dead."
Was He saying that we go to heaven and hell when we die, those in heaven and hell will communicate with each other, or was Jesus prophesying in a parable that he would raise a man named Lazarus from the dead and the Jews would still not believe on Him?
Whether you agree or not, it is interesting to think about. Noah's Dad said the other guys post sounded like a Seventh Day Adventist. I don't know about him, but I am. I believe the teachings to be closest to the Bible, unfortunately many times SDA's get caught up on debates about the Sabbath, state of the dead, and other doctrinal differences we have. Pointing fingers and saying "I'm right and you are wrong" usually will just put up walls and turn ears off to the message. We have to lift Jesus up. Jesus' disciples did not understand the purpose of his coming until after his resurrection, even though he explained it many times. Although I believe the state of the dead teaching is true and important, understanding salvation is much more important, and Jesus let his very own disciples come to that understanding when they were ready. There is a lot that I do not understand, but I know that if I keep praying God's guidance he will lead me where I need to be.
So much for a short post, I hope it helps.
This post is long, and I did not read all of it. It appears that the conversation has switched, but I did read the post about the rich man and Lazarus parable. This may have already been answered, and if so I apologize.
First, I agree with the posters that we are asleep not in heaven or in hell. We should not build an entire doctrine on one or two verses, but at the same time we all know that the Bible is in inspired of God so if there is a contradiction there must be an explanation. A fast explanation of the rich man and Lazarus. I'll try to make this short. It is located in Luke 16:19-31. The only reason that I have ever heard that this is more then just a parable is that the character Lazarus is given a name. In no other parables is a character given a name. However, we know people in heaven and hell will not be communicating. How mother or father enjoy heaven, and trust God's eternal love while they watched their son burning in eternal torture and pleading with them for help? That is not Biblical so we know that Jesus is using symbols here.
I belief that the reason Lazarus is named is found in the last part of the parable when the rich man is asking that Lazarus be sent back from the dead to warn the people. Answer the rich man gets is vs 29-31 "They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them 30 and he said Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them form the dead they will repent 31 and he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets neither will they be persuaded though one rose from the dead."
Was He saying that we go to heaven and hell when we die, those in heaven and hell will communicate with each other, or was Jesus prophesying in a parable that he would raise a man named Lazarus from the dead and the Jews would still not believe on Him?
Whether you agree or not, it is interesting to think about. Noah's Dad said the other guys post sounded like a Seventh Day Adventist. I don't know about him, but I am. I believe the teachings to be closest to the Bible, unfortunately many times SDA's get caught up on debates about the Sabbath, state of the dead, and other doctrinal differences we have. Pointing fingers and saying "I'm right and you are wrong" usually will just put up walls and turn ears off to the message. We have to lift Jesus up. Jesus' disciples did not understand the purpose of his coming until after his resurrection, even though he explained it many times. Although I believe the state of the dead teaching is true and important, understanding salvation is much more important, and Jesus let his very own disciples come to that understanding when they were ready. There is a lot that I do not understand, but I know that if I keep praying God's guidance he will lead me where I need to be.
So much for a short post, I hope it helps.
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