Loving your enemies

[OwenHeidenreich]

So the rapist who rapes your 4yr old girl or the terrorist who slits your mother's throat making you watch because you didn't deny Christ are hurt people and need therapy?

Gee, our culture in it's narcissism sure has lost sight of good and evil.

I agree with the main point of loving our enemies but not the above sentence.

yes that is exactly what shes saying. those people who do those things to people are severely broken and deceived, and they need help because they are hurt in that way. and that example was very disgusting and violent.

 

[zoii]

In the Bible there is a whole slew of verses about loving your enemies. I have some thoughts and some questions on that...

Luke 6:27-36
V.35-36: Love your enemies! Do good to them. Lend to them without expecting to be repaid. Then your reward from heaven will be very great, and you will truly be acting as children of the Most High, for He is kind to those who are unthankful and wicked. You must be compassionate just as your Father is compassionate.

So here is what I am thinking:God loves everyone, even "bad people".

In my mind (and I don't know if God sees it this way, this is just how I see it) there is no such thing as "good" and "bad" people. There is just hurt people. when someone hurts me do I get upset? yes but I also wonder what they are hurting about too.

I think God put these verses in there because He knows hurt people, hurt people and he doesn't want that cycle to continue and the only way to break that cycle is to love those who hurt you. So then the focus is more on helping them than on yourself and how much you are hurt. Of course it is healthy to process your anger and hurt in a healthy way and I think part of that includes seeing that individual who hurt you as another hurt individual. I don't know if that's how it is and I'm not claiming to know the heart of God but I am just saying what I have seen from my experience.

So what do you think about this?

Also, Romans 12:19-21 states that if you are kind to your enemies it will be like heaping burning coals on his head. Why did it say that? It's like "be nice to your enemies so they suffer." I don't get that. I mean is it saying "be nice so the natural consequences come about to that person and they change for the better." or what? I'm all confused. Thoughts?

That's a really hard thing to ask. Is it possible u can still hate someone n not be sinning?

 

[Sirk]

Carrying unforgivness is like drinking poison and expecting someone else to die from it.

 

[Jason0047]

Not to be mean Jason,but when one comes across as not being open in any way shape or form it comes across as being being fake and disingenuous. It comes across as either there is very little reality to your walk or your walk is so much better then anyone else's. Do you honestly think that the apostles hid their walk and their struggles to those they were teaching or were they open? Do you realize if you went to the groups that I dealt with you would be seen as a caricature of a Christian and not the real deal? The reason being is that you can not be real about your own struggles and you come across as being so much better then anyone else. That's how you be seen.

None of it means to have to spill all your guts,but being a little more open would help you out.

I do share my walk with others. As I said, I do so with those in whom I trust and or do so by the leading of the Spirit at the right time. I do not just reveal everything to everyone. Especially those who seek to attack me. For did Jesus share openly everything? No. He spoke to others in parables and then revealed the mysteries of the Kingdom to his disciples. I believe the standard of truth is the Word of God. I am not going to correct someone by me speaking about my life. Only the Word of God can correct people.

 

[Jason0047]

So Jason you are saying if we sin we aren't saved? All of us sin so therefore, from your statement, non of us are saved. I think you need to read your post before you send it.

There is no problem in what I said. If a person abides in unrepentant sin and then dies in that sin, they are not saved (This would be those types of sins that lead unto death like lying, stealing, hating, killing, lustig, etc.). The only sin that is forgiven is sin that is confessed and forsaken. Granted, a person who comes to the faith for the first time does not need to confess their sins. All they have to do is admit they are a sinner and accept Christ as their Savior. However, after someone is a believer (who is born again), if they sin again, they must confess it as per 1 John 1:9 and forsake it so that blood of Jesus cleanses them as per 1 John 1:7.

 

[Jason0047]

That's a really hard thing to ask. Is it possible u can still hate someone n not be sinning?

Do you want a Bible verse so as to answer that question?

 

[Sirk]

I do share my walk with others. As I said, I do so with those in whom I trust and or do so by the leading of the Spirit at the right time. I do not just reveal everything to everyone. Especially those who seek to attack me. For did Jesus share openly everything? No. He spoke to others in parables and then revealed the mysteries of the Kingdom to his disciples. I believe the standard of truth is the Word of God. I am not going to correct someone by me speaking about my life. Only the Word of God can correct people.

Life experience is important and its how you relate to people. Yes...our focus needs to be on Jesus but he didn't "knit us together in the womb" to let our personalities and experiences in life go to waste. We are his hands and feet and life experience makes for good "muscle memory".....and We should be learning from those farther down the road than us. Experience is important for growth.

 

[cmarieh]

I agree.... We love BECAUSE HE FIRST LOVED us.

Yes and we must learn to love others without expecting anything in return. Is it hard to love those who persecute us? Of course it is, but isn't that what Agape Love is all about?

Matthew 5:38-42 NKJV

[SUP]38 [/SUP]“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ [SUP]39 [/SUP]But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. [SUP]40 [/SUP]If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. [SUP]41 [/SUP]And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. [SUP]42 [/SUP]Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.

Jesus taught us to have Christ-like love for others. When the love of God is poured out in our hearts, we don't look for opportunities to get even; and we often show goodness to those who don't deserve it. The love of God causes us not to be stingy and cheap in our spirits, but abounding with love for others.

James 1:19-20

[SUP]19 [/SUP]So then, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath; [SUP]20 [/SUP]for the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God.

 

[DesiredHaven]

Jason loves those who persecutes him better then any one on this board

Paul said the one born after the Spirit (as well as the one that will live Godly in Christ) is the one that will be persecuted

 

[Jason0047]

Life experience is important and its how you relate to people. Yes...our focus needs to be on Jesus but he didn't "knit us together in the womb" to let our personalities and experiences in life go to waste. We are his hands and feet and life experience makes for good "muscle memory".....and We should be learning from those farther down the road than us. Experience is important for growth.

Excessive openness can be a hinderance or a problem in some cases. A military commander who is leading his troops would not be wise to tell his troops of the anxiety he might have in a certain tactic. We see Jesus did not reveal all things even to his disciples. For they did not know of his plan of going to the cross and then rising from the grave. Oh, yes. Jesus told them. But they didn't get it right away.

 

[Sirk]

Jason loves those who persecutes him better then any one on this board

Paul said the one born after the Spirit (as well as the one that will live Godly in Christ) is the one that will be persecuted

Try telling christians in the middle east that Jason gets "persecuted". Jason just gets held accountable for his words.

 

[Sirk]

Excessive openness can be a hinderance or a problem in some cases. A military commander who is leading his troops would not be wise to tell his troops of the anxiety he might have in a certain tactic. We see Jesus did not reveal all things even to his disciples. For they did not know of his plan of going to the cross and then rising from the grave. Oh, yes. Jesus told them. But they didn't get it right away.

Jesus mission was a tad different from yours and mine. He came to bare the weight of Gods wrath. Jesus didn't have any sins to share or character flaws to shine the light of truth on.

 

[DesiredHaven]

Try telling christians in the middle east that Jason gets "persecuted". Jason just gets held accountable for his words.

Tell God about it

Heb 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

Its all good, its worked for him not against him, being tried requires both the persecuted one and those taken captive to do the will of devourer

Its how it is

 

[Sirk]

Tell God about it

Heb 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

Its all good, its worked for him not against him, being tried requires both the persecuted one and those taken captive to do the will of devourer

Its how it is

So when someone disagrees with you it's persecution? Thats just childish...sorry.

 

[atwhatcost]

Carrying unforgivness is like drinking poison and expecting someone else to die from it.

You might want some Bactine, because I think I may be about to rub you the wrong way again. lol

I disagree. I think there can be love without forgiveness. Like you said on the other thread, there is something to talking it out before even asking about the forgiveness part, but that's also a two-way street. What if the other person wronged you, you go to her, try to get it straightened out but she wants nothing to do with asking for forgiveness, because she did nothing wrong? (And this is after talking it out, before getting to the point of asking.) Sure, there is a solution to that, if the person is a Christian. (Get two others to join you and try again. And, if that doesn't work, bring the sis to the church and talk it out there. And, if that doesn't work, the sis is no longer a sis, but is to be treated as someone who needs God.) BUT, what if the person isn't a Christian?

Do you think that person should be forgiven anyway, just because? I don't. I haven't seen any scripture that bears that out. AND, that's not to say we don't need to love the person, but there's a distinct difference between love and forgive. Even God expects a confession from us before he forgives us, and he doesn't forgive just anybody, or every single person would be saved.

I could be wrong. Maybe I missed something in the Bible, but I have loved without forgiving, and in that love anger, sourpuss, and the making of Gollum, (LoTR Gollum, since I think he gets his name from a word in the Bible), is adverted, but not through forgiveness.

I've never forgiven the guys who raped me. Never had the chance to talk to them about it, and wouldn't have taken the chance if I had, (unless a couple of sharp shooters were my bodyguards lol), but I have prayed to see them again in heaven, through the same mercy God gave me. That is love, or the best I can do for love considering the obvious.

In like kind I've loved bros who did me wrong, but wouldn't recognize it was wrong to get to the point of freely giving forgiveness. I still consider them bros, still love them, just haven't forgiven them.

 

[Jason0047]

Jesus mission was a tad different from yours and mine. He came to bare the weight of Gods wrath. Jesus didn't have any sins to share or character flaws to shine the light of truth on.

While we cannot pay the price for mankind's sins; We are to walk as He walked. We are to live the life that he lived. Jesus Christ is our example. We are to conform to the image of the Son. However, we are not alone in this. The Lord lives within a believer and does the good work thru them (Heling them to be more like Him).

 

[Sirk]

You might want some Bactine, because I think I may be about to rub you the wrong way again. lol

I disagree. I think there can be love without forgiveness. Like you said on the other thread, there is something to talking it out before even asking about the forgiveness part, but that's also a two-way street. What if the other person wronged you, you go to her, try to get it straightened out but she wants nothing to do with asking for forgiveness, because she did nothing wrong? (And this is after talking it out, before getting to the point of asking.) Sure, there is a solution to that, if the person is a Christian. (Get two others to join you and try again. And, if that doesn't work, bring the sis to the church and talk it out there. And, if that doesn't work, the sis is no longer a sis, but is to be treated as someone who needs God.) BUT, what if the person isn't a Christian?

Do you think that person should be forgiven anyway, just because? I don't. I haven't seen any scripture that bears that out. AND, that's not to say we don't need to love the person, but there's a distinct difference between love and forgive. Even God expects a confession from us before he forgives us, and he doesn't forgive just anybody, or every single person would be saved.

I could be wrong. Maybe I missed something in the Bible, but I have loved without forgiving, and in that love anger, sourpuss, and the making of Gollum, (LoTR Gollum, since I think he gets his name from a word in the Bible), is adverted, but not through forgiveness.

I've never forgiven the guys who raped me. Never had the chance to talk to them about it, and wouldn't have taken the chance if I had, (unless a couple of sharp shooters were my bodyguards lol), but I have prayed to see them again in heaven, through the same mercy God gave me. That is love, or the best I can do for love considering the obvious.

In like kind I've loved bros who did me wrong, but wouldn't recognize it was wrong to get to the point of freely giving forgiveness. I still consider them bros, still love them, just haven't forgiven them.

I think my comment more exemplifies dwelling on or ruminating about someone sinning against to the point that it consumes you.

 

[atwhatcost]

Excessive openness can be a hinderance or a problem in some cases. A military commander who is leading his troops would not be wise to tell his troops of the anxiety he might have in a certain tactic. We see Jesus did not reveal all things even to his disciples. For they did not know of his plan of going to the cross and then rising from the grave. Oh, yes. Jesus told them. But they didn't get it right away.

They didn't understand, because had they, I'm sure there would have been more than one sword in that garden. No one has swords here. We simply can't bring swords to a virtue forum. Can't even bring peashooters. lol

 

[DesiredHaven]

So when someone disagrees with you it's persecution? Thats just childish...sorry.

It doesnt say that,

 

[atwhatcost]

I think my comment more exemplifies dwelling on or ruminating about someone sinning against to the point that it consumes you.

Yeah, but was I persecuting you by disagreeing?