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There is no security to those who commit rebellion.
(Heb 6:4-6 [LEB])
For it is impossible concerning those who have once been enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and become sharers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the coming age, and having fallen away, to renew them again to repentance, because they have crucified again for themselves the Son of God and held him up to contempt.
The sins of the flesh effect the flesh and die with the flesh, because there is no spiritual component to them. Those sins keep us from enjoying the life God gave us. We pay for those sins here and now.
Let's view it from God's perspective. The creator holds the universe in the palm of His hand [if He had one]. The universe is estimated to be 13 billions light years across. It contains billions an billions of galaxies. Our galaxy is the milkyway and is estimated to be 200 light years across. These galaxy has million of millions of solar systems and we live in one with one sun and nine planets. Got the picture and I'm not even covering the theories of extra dimensions. Do you really thinks He gives a hoot about your lie or self indulgence? Do you really think He wants to swoop in and send you to hell for something your flesh does? Remember as big as He is, so is love. The only reason He gives a hoot about your sin is that it keeps you from experiencing His Love. It breaks His heart to see His creation suffer because of sin and He weeps deeply.
The passages below refer to the fate of satan and his punishment. you tell me what you see.
(Ezek 28:18-19 [HCSB])
You profaned your sanctuaries by the magnitude of your iniquities in your dishonest trade. So I made fire come from within you, and it consumed you. I reduced you to ashes on the ground in the sight of everyone watching you. All those who know you among the nations are appalled at you. You have become an object of horror and will never exist again.”
(Ezek 28:19 [CPDV])
All who gaze upon you among the Gentiles will be stupefied over you. You were made out of nothing, and you shall not be, forever.”
(Ezek 28:19 [LEB])
All who know you among the peoples are appalled over you; you have become as horrors, and you shall cease to exist forever.” ’ ”
And God weeps deeply for Son of the Morning Star. because he will cease to be.
(Heb 6:4-6 [LEB])
For it is impossible concerning those who have once been enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and become sharers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the coming age, and having fallen away, to renew them again to repentance, because they have crucified again for themselves the Son of God and held him up to contempt.
The sins of the flesh effect the flesh and die with the flesh, because there is no spiritual component to them. Those sins keep us from enjoying the life God gave us. We pay for those sins here and now.
Let's view it from God's perspective. The creator holds the universe in the palm of His hand [if He had one]. The universe is estimated to be 13 billions light years across. It contains billions an billions of galaxies. Our galaxy is the milkyway and is estimated to be 200 light years across. These galaxy has million of millions of solar systems and we live in one with one sun and nine planets. Got the picture and I'm not even covering the theories of extra dimensions. Do you really thinks He gives a hoot about your lie or self indulgence? Do you really think He wants to swoop in and send you to hell for something your flesh does? Remember as big as He is, so is love. The only reason He gives a hoot about your sin is that it keeps you from experiencing His Love. It breaks His heart to see His creation suffer because of sin and He weeps deeply.
The passages below refer to the fate of satan and his punishment. you tell me what you see.
(Ezek 28:18-19 [HCSB])
You profaned your sanctuaries by the magnitude of your iniquities in your dishonest trade. So I made fire come from within you, and it consumed you. I reduced you to ashes on the ground in the sight of everyone watching you. All those who know you among the nations are appalled at you. You have become an object of horror and will never exist again.”
(Ezek 28:19 [CPDV])
All who gaze upon you among the Gentiles will be stupefied over you. You were made out of nothing, and you shall not be, forever.”
(Ezek 28:19 [LEB])
All who know you among the peoples are appalled over you; you have become as horrors, and you shall cease to exist forever.” ’ ”
And God weeps deeply for Son of the Morning Star. because he will cease to be.
I have a problem with the equation atonement. The further atonement does not involve me the less real it appears to be.
Ceremonial atonement. Jesus died for my sin, and I obtain forgiveness by eating his flesh and drinking his blood.
So this obviously implies I must have communion, and the sacrements.
Faith atonement. If I believe he died for me, then I am saved. So I must go through as much bible knowledge and church attendance, and then I am saved.
Humanist atonement. He was just the best example for us, and gave us some good moral guidelines. Obey these rules and you will stroll into heaven.
Faith sight atonement. We are changed by knowing how much God loves us, by experiencing the wonder of God becoming man and taking the worst man could hypocritically throw at Him and forgive them. Believing is like seeing it, feeling it, knowing it, in the core of your being. He is your best friend, your lover, the one who knows you inside and out, and still he loves you.
If you see this, it changes you, you will never ever be the same again.
The deciples spent three years becoming Jesus's friend, knowing His nature, hearing His words, knowing He was God made man, and He died to set us free. In some deep way, just seeing this changes us, gives us a view of life that nothing else can, resets our emotions, our goals, our hopes and our dreams.
The price to put right the breaking of communion Adam caused, was a statement of acceptance that no man could deny if seen. He paid the price needed to correct the sin, the blindness, the desires to walk alone and away, the pride that said we could do it alone, we did not need anyone or anything else to Lord it over us.
So He is everything the apostles said, our High Priest, our Example, our friend who broke the separation, who changed us so when we see the father we love and have come home and not standing in fear and rebellion.
We are born again, the Lord in the Holy Spirit makes His home in our hearts and we know, we know this is right.
When I first walked into this it was like a small seed of warmth deep within, I knew its power, its strength.
Over the years it has grown bigger and bigger, and slowly I have lost any reference point, I just know it pours out of me everyday. Jesus is the Son of the Living God, the one who I would die proclaiming His name. I find no fault in Him or His deeds and glory in how he works.
But hey, this is just me, talking about how I have experienced atonement, and trying to put this into words.
Maybe this will help someone, maybe I am just slightly nuts, but Praise the Lord, I am set free from Sin and death, and I can now love knowing I am loved by God.
Ceremonial atonement. Jesus died for my sin, and I obtain forgiveness by eating his flesh and drinking his blood.
So this obviously implies I must have communion, and the sacrements.
Faith atonement. If I believe he died for me, then I am saved. So I must go through as much bible knowledge and church attendance, and then I am saved.
Humanist atonement. He was just the best example for us, and gave us some good moral guidelines. Obey these rules and you will stroll into heaven.
Faith sight atonement. We are changed by knowing how much God loves us, by experiencing the wonder of God becoming man and taking the worst man could hypocritically throw at Him and forgive them. Believing is like seeing it, feeling it, knowing it, in the core of your being. He is your best friend, your lover, the one who knows you inside and out, and still he loves you.
If you see this, it changes you, you will never ever be the same again.
The deciples spent three years becoming Jesus's friend, knowing His nature, hearing His words, knowing He was God made man, and He died to set us free. In some deep way, just seeing this changes us, gives us a view of life that nothing else can, resets our emotions, our goals, our hopes and our dreams.
The price to put right the breaking of communion Adam caused, was a statement of acceptance that no man could deny if seen. He paid the price needed to correct the sin, the blindness, the desires to walk alone and away, the pride that said we could do it alone, we did not need anyone or anything else to Lord it over us.
So He is everything the apostles said, our High Priest, our Example, our friend who broke the separation, who changed us so when we see the father we love and have come home and not standing in fear and rebellion.
We are born again, the Lord in the Holy Spirit makes His home in our hearts and we know, we know this is right.
When I first walked into this it was like a small seed of warmth deep within, I knew its power, its strength.
Over the years it has grown bigger and bigger, and slowly I have lost any reference point, I just know it pours out of me everyday. Jesus is the Son of the Living God, the one who I would die proclaiming His name. I find no fault in Him or His deeds and glory in how he works.
But hey, this is just me, talking about how I have experienced atonement, and trying to put this into words.
Maybe this will help someone, maybe I am just slightly nuts, but Praise the Lord, I am set free from Sin and death, and I can now love knowing I am loved by God.
Just from some quick googling that I did, it seems like the singular form relates to a state of sin or rebellion that reflects a general hostility toward God. It is the state of the unconverted mind, in other words. I would say that is a manifestation of original sin.
That definition sounds reasonable. I am totally convinced of penal substitutionary atonement.
That definition sounds reasonable. I am totally convinced of penal substitutionary atonement.
Dear Sparkman
I use these forums to check my "Revelation". I don't intentionally try and rile people. It works like this. God shows me things that I really have never heard or understand. I allow others to pick them apart, if they can. If they can then they are not of God. I am intellectually honest and will admit defeat on the subject. I was born into a Baptist church and attended a fundamentalist bible college. I believed most of what everyone here does, until God told to forget everything I knew. I was shaken. My whole world was built on those teachings. I was told to forget those teachings and read nothing but the Gospels. I was to read the Gospels and learn what the Gospel was according to Jesus and from Him only. It took me 11yrs to clean myself of corrupt man made doctrines. Just like Paul went into seclusion in Arabia. Now I knew why, he had to clean the corrupt doctrines of the Pharisees out. It took me 11yrs to understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
I have like you always had a problem trying to define original sin, or even what Jesus was doing in dying on the cross.
Though the need or debt had to be met by His death, it sounds a little court like, while other aspects of salvation are completely different.
What changed me was realising the foundational psychological failures in peoples lives, the buried hurt from disappointment and fear of their parents. I then asked a question are we born with a heart of love but without communion with the Lord, so selfishness will always destroy it. We all inherit this failure, and nothing will resolve it, because the consequence of shutting out need and sensitivity always leads to sin, because you become blind to it.
Now the one healing reality for hurt and rejection is unrestricted sacrificial love, either offered by a person or by the Lord. So if this love was infinite, all powerful, without restraint and was given by the Lord, the ultimate reference point, if the love within could open up, freely, healing, could begin, making things new, a real communion.
The more I have looked and the more I have shared, the more it fits, not just a bit, but 100%.
It also says to us, how we fail and how we can succeed. It is about being remade, not going back to past pains, but building new reactions and approaches in ones life, because now you know you are loved.
Now your language about corrupt man made doctrines is harsh. I would use the idea they are based on the emotional history of people which often misses the essential realities, while emphasising things that are intellectual rather than useful.
Being re-engineered from the inside out, takes time, and also needs co-operation and good teaching.
Do you understand where I am coming from or is this a new perspective, or something you just reject.
I do like your approach, simply because part of who Jesus is, is for us to discover together the wonders of the Kingdom and build our understanding while practising its very foundations.
Though the need or debt had to be met by His death, it sounds a little court like, while other aspects of salvation are completely different.
What changed me was realising the foundational psychological failures in peoples lives, the buried hurt from disappointment and fear of their parents. I then asked a question are we born with a heart of love but without communion with the Lord, so selfishness will always destroy it. We all inherit this failure, and nothing will resolve it, because the consequence of shutting out need and sensitivity always leads to sin, because you become blind to it.
Now the one healing reality for hurt and rejection is unrestricted sacrificial love, either offered by a person or by the Lord. So if this love was infinite, all powerful, without restraint and was given by the Lord, the ultimate reference point, if the love within could open up, freely, healing, could begin, making things new, a real communion.
The more I have looked and the more I have shared, the more it fits, not just a bit, but 100%.
It also says to us, how we fail and how we can succeed. It is about being remade, not going back to past pains, but building new reactions and approaches in ones life, because now you know you are loved.
Now your language about corrupt man made doctrines is harsh. I would use the idea they are based on the emotional history of people which often misses the essential realities, while emphasising things that are intellectual rather than useful.
Being re-engineered from the inside out, takes time, and also needs co-operation and good teaching.
Do you understand where I am coming from or is this a new perspective, or something you just reject.
I do like your approach, simply because part of who Jesus is, is for us to discover together the wonders of the Kingdom and build our understanding while practising its very foundations.
S
I accepted Reformed theology BEFORE I heard the name of John Calvin, on the basis of reading the Bible. One cannot ignore the 60 plus references in the New Testament to being chosen, predestined, or elected. It's simply undeniable.
In regards to original sin, yes, I accept it because it is biblical. I am not a Pelagian. I believe in original sin, imputed righteousness, justification by faith alone, and penal substitutionary atonement. I consider these to be core to the gospel message.
So, no, your theology would not fly with me. And the accusation that others are unbiblical while you are smacks of elitism and a superiority complex. How many people do I talk with who claim they are sole possessors of 'the truth' or their theology is superior?
I belonged to a cult who believed Hyper Arminianism and denied original sin, so I know the other perspective and wholeheartedly reject it.
In regards to original sin, yes, I accept it because it is biblical. I am not a Pelagian. I believe in original sin, imputed righteousness, justification by faith alone, and penal substitutionary atonement. I consider these to be core to the gospel message.
So, no, your theology would not fly with me. And the accusation that others are unbiblical while you are smacks of elitism and a superiority complex. How many people do I talk with who claim they are sole possessors of 'the truth' or their theology is superior?
I belonged to a cult who believed Hyper Arminianism and denied original sin, so I know the other perspective and wholeheartedly reject it.
This response says it well.
The Eastern Orthodox version of atonement, held by the writer I purple, is wonderful... but it is only half the story.
Salvation is not a second chance, or a series of second chances.
Salvation is set from eternity past. Atonement was set from eternity past.
Atonement is to those who are graced with it... and it is the Church that stands in Grace, through Faith.
CHRIST is both the Cornerstone... and the Stumbling Block. Think about these things. If all men benefit, then what of those who stumble? Perhaps "all men" is the phrase that needs some research, rather than the word "atonement".
The Eastern Orthodox version of atonement, held by the writer I purple, is wonderful... but it is only half the story.
Salvation is not a second chance, or a series of second chances.
Salvation is set from eternity past. Atonement was set from eternity past.
Atonement is to those who are graced with it... and it is the Church that stands in Grace, through Faith.
CHRIST is both the Cornerstone... and the Stumbling Block. Think about these things. If all men benefit, then what of those who stumble? Perhaps "all men" is the phrase that needs some research, rather than the word "atonement".
I am here to test it. There are many blank areas I don't understand and I am not afraid to say so. Many in my congregation say that's what they like about me. I have no need to have others see me as having the answer. Discussing these revelations on line allows me to work though them. So I appreciate those who question me and am willing to let them believe what they also believe.
Jesus went town to town preaching the Gospel. If these things you speak of are the core of Jesus' Gospel, He would have taught them. Am I right? If He did not teach them; then are they Truth? Jesus said, "This Gospel [His Gospel] would be preached unto the ends of the world". If someone preaches what He did not preach is it then another gospel? I have gone to Jesus Himself as the author of my faith according to His Gospel. While other's, like calvin, teach preconceived notions, mined from out of context verses. Is it really elitism to stand in His Gospel exactly as He taught it? Hmmm! I guess our conversation is over.
Absolutely correct! How does a physical death pay for spiritual sin? I think there is more to the cross than we know.
I can accept that. I view man as neutral, neither good nor evil, but tossed and buffeted from all sides mentally, emotionally and spiritually.
Correct! ALL things in heaven and earth [human and fallen angel] were reconciled back to God by the death of Christ An act of infinite Love.
(Col 1:20 [WORNT])
and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace by the blood of his cross; by Him only, whether they be things on earth, or things in heaven.
Yes! Yes! The act of forgiveness by God is an act of "Washing" over and over again' Sanctification is God making us "remade" in His image. The more we are Washed- forgiven, the more we have the mind of Christ.
I do understand receive the concept you are setting forth. Yes! There are people who miss the spiritual because of the flesh and looking to the intellect rather than the Holy Spirit. However, When corrupt doctrines blind the heart and mind of people to the Gospel it is referred to in scripture as "Doctrines of demons".
I totally appreciate, understand and accept this perspective. Being "re-engineered" is the life long sanctification process of being conformed to the image of Christ.
Amen! And Amen!
I can accept that. I view man as neutral, neither good nor evil, but tossed and buffeted from all sides mentally, emotionally and spiritually.
Correct! ALL things in heaven and earth [human and fallen angel] were reconciled back to God by the death of Christ An act of infinite Love.
(Col 1:20 [WORNT])
and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace by the blood of his cross; by Him only, whether they be things on earth, or things in heaven.
Yes! Yes! The act of forgiveness by God is an act of "Washing" over and over again' Sanctification is God making us "remade" in His image. The more we are Washed- forgiven, the more we have the mind of Christ.
I do understand receive the concept you are setting forth. Yes! There are people who miss the spiritual because of the flesh and looking to the intellect rather than the Holy Spirit. However, When corrupt doctrines blind the heart and mind of people to the Gospel it is referred to in scripture as "Doctrines of demons".
I totally appreciate, understand and accept this perspective. Being "re-engineered" is the life long sanctification process of being conformed to the image of Christ.
Amen! And Amen!
S
The assumption you're making is that Reformed theology isn't based on Scripture. In fact, Reformed teachers hold Scripture in the highest regard. While I do not blindly follow Reformed theology, as a movement they tend to be more faithful than most others with regards to sola Scriptura.
In regards to Pelagian views, Pelagianism has been considered heresy throughout church history. Charles Finney, unfortunately, began teaching his heresies again in more recent history. It's been a blight upon evangelical Christianity ever since. Although I wouldn't consider anyone who holds his expanded view of Pelagianism to be either evangelical or Christian.
Moral Government Theology is also an associated heresy.
In regards to Pelagian views, Pelagianism has been considered heresy throughout church history. Charles Finney, unfortunately, began teaching his heresies again in more recent history. It's been a blight upon evangelical Christianity ever since. Although I wouldn't consider anyone who holds his expanded view of Pelagianism to be either evangelical or Christian.
Moral Government Theology is also an associated heresy.
"Ransomed" does not refer to satan..........it refers to the fact that the cleansing of sin requires in most all things a blood sacrifice........This requirement was established by God not satan.
We are a "ransomed people." Jesus Christ paid the price of our sins on Calvary's Cross ONCE for ALL who will believe in Him.
Throughout Scripture, this is clearly shown.
We are a "ransomed people." Jesus Christ paid the price of our sins on Calvary's Cross ONCE for ALL who will believe in Him.
Throughout Scripture, this is clearly shown.
Soteriology: The Study of Salvation
1) Christ died for the salvation of mankind.
Matthew 20:28) Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
Romans 5:8) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Hebrews 2:9) But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
2) Christ died in our place. Had He not died, we would have died.
1 Timothy 2:6) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
1 Peter 3:18) For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
3) Christ died to appease God. Jesus, by His death, turned God's wrath away from us. Our sins were/are an offense to God, and Jesus became a propitiation for us, being He made us who sinned to find favor in the eyes of God. When the world looks us, they see our sin. When God looks at us, He sees the precious blood of Christ.
Romans 3:25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
1 John 2:2) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:18) And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 .) To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
4) Christ died to redeem mankind.
Acts 20:28) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Romans 3:24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
1 Corinthians 6:19) What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 .) For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
1 Peter 1:18) Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 .) But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1 Timothy 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 .) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
5) Christ died to declare God's righteousness.
Romans 3:25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 .) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
[The Old Testament sacrifices were but a shadow of things to come]
Colossians 2:16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 .) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Hebrews 8:5) Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
Hebrews 9:23) It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 .) For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Hebrews 10:8) Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 .) Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 .) By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Leviticus 17:11) For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
[At the Passover, a lamb was slain, and it's blood was sprinkled on the door post so that the first-born would not die.]
Hebrews 9:22) And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
[With His death, Christ became our Passover]
1 Corinthians 5:7) Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
We truly are a ransomed people!
1) Christ died for the salvation of mankind.
Matthew 20:28) Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
Romans 5:8) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Hebrews 2:9) But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
2) Christ died in our place. Had He not died, we would have died.
1 Timothy 2:6) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
1 Peter 3:18) For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
3) Christ died to appease God. Jesus, by His death, turned God's wrath away from us. Our sins were/are an offense to God, and Jesus became a propitiation for us, being He made us who sinned to find favor in the eyes of God. When the world looks us, they see our sin. When God looks at us, He sees the precious blood of Christ.
Romans 3:25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
1 John 2:2) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:18) And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 .) To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
4) Christ died to redeem mankind.
Acts 20:28) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Romans 3:24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
1 Corinthians 6:19) What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 .) For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
1 Peter 1:18) Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 .) But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1 Timothy 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 .) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
5) Christ died to declare God's righteousness.
Romans 3:25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 .) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
[The Old Testament sacrifices were but a shadow of things to come]
Colossians 2:16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 .) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Hebrews 8:5) Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
Hebrews 9:23) It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 .) For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Hebrews 10:8) Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 .) Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 .) By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Leviticus 17:11) For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
[At the Passover, a lamb was slain, and it's blood was sprinkled on the door post so that the first-born would not die.]
Hebrews 9:22) And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
[With His death, Christ became our Passover]
1 Corinthians 5:7) Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
We truly are a ransomed people!
The epistles are in alignment with Jesus. If the epistles are used to augment the teaching of Jesus there is no contradiction and they don't change His message. If they do challenge His message it is due to corruption of the definitions of the wording. Just about any modern scholar will tell you Paul preached a different message than Jesus and call it the Pauline gospel. The fact is Paul preached the very same Gospel as Jesus with the addition of the explanation of the cross. The cross is not the main body of the teaching of the Gospel, but was made so later on. So if we go back to the source of the real Gospel it is Jesus the Christ and He is the only source. All others are an addendum.
You're a breath of fresh air around here. You hardly ever hear someone in this forum stating that they believe a certain way, or that thus and such is their interpretation.
No, things are usually stated as "matters of fact", as though the poster was sitting right beside God when the statement was first made. Being unsure or curious seems to be considered a fault by some in here. (I sure hope they don't wake up to a big surprise one day..... unless it is on this side of death, and they still have a chance to get some things right.)
No, things are usually stated as "matters of fact", as though the poster was sitting right beside God when the statement was first made. Being unsure or curious seems to be considered a fault by some in here. (I sure hope they don't wake up to a big surprise one day..... unless it is on this side of death, and they still have a chance to get some things right.)
Absolutely correct! How does a physical death pay for spiritual sin? I think there is more to the cross than we know.
Amen! And Amen!
Amen! And Amen!
I am wondering the next step, but it probably is taking this through scripture.
Just writing about atonement has changed some things for me, I need to do more.
God bless, Peter