Being Blotted Out Of The Book Of Life

[oldthennew]

The question for me is which direction are you facing not where you have got to.

Imagine the kingdom of heaven is very simple, very very simple. It is a game, either you want to play or you do not.
You can dabble at the edges, but is you are not serious, times up.

I am not sure any of us really know in someone else how well they have bought into the reality, because it is something in your soul that only the individual feels, and if you do not feel you do not know that is the a problem.

But be encouraged, if you are in a garage and you behave like a car, you are a car. So if you have the joy of the Lord, love from the heart and grow in the gifts of the spirit, love, joy, peace, patience etc. then you have got it.

Jesus talked about building a tower and counting the cost. It takes time effort and resources. If you do not complete it it was not worth it. But this is the point, the finished article, but we are always on a walk, where we go from one state of glory to the next.

So the intellectual concepts are just that, it is the carrying on and seeing the beauty of it that matters. Unfortunately few seem to catch the real fire of what love is, but then that is why Jesus died so we could.

Does this help at
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an unbelievable post -

 

[Grandpa]

Psalm 69:26-28
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Revelation 13:6-8

[SUP]6 [/SUP]And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.


Interesting study. Silly debate. Can a believer in Christ be blotted out of the book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world?

John 6:32-37

[SUP]32 [/SUP]Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

 

[Jason0047]

Jason,
I am confused as to what you are saying, especially with Galatians 5:1-4
You stated "Christians are warned: those who later have attempted to be justified by law, … have been estranged from Christ and have fallen from grace." You have said that we have to be justified by the law in order to be saved....Isn't that what you just said makes us fall from God and grace? please explain

So we just do evil and think we are saved? Is that what you are saying? We can be our own Lord's and masters instead of making Jesus our Lord? Well, to not obey has consequences that are not good according to God's Word. Tell me, how can you not forgive and still be forgiven? (Matthew 6:15). How can you hate your brother and still have eternal life abiding in you? (1 John 3:15). Also, nowhere did I say we are justified in obeying a certain set of rules alone in and of itself. Once a person is born again spiritually and they have God living in them, then God will do the work in their heart and lives if they yield to Him (See Ezekiel 36:26-27). Salvation is always God's grace 100% because if you do fail to do what God is commanding you, we have His grace to help us. Not so as to continue in sin, but to overcome it. For it is the Lord that is working in us to being conformed to the image of the Son. Also, usually when the word "Law" appears in the New Testament, it is a reference to the "Law of Moses" which has been done away with at the cross. For Christians are under a New Covenant that has it's own laws and commands. For there is the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2). The Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). The royal law, etc. In fact, Paul had said that what he had written should be considered as the Lord's commandments.

 

[psychomom]

Also, nowhere did I say we are justified in obeying a certain set of rules alone in and of itself. .

actually, that's what you say pretty much everywhere.

 

[FancyNancy]

Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder,

whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Thats how one places puts it

Definitive answer. Thread now defunct.

 

[Jason0047]

actually, that's what you say pretty much everywhere.

Obeying Jesus and or His Commands is never wrong; Do you think it is wrong to obey Him? Do you think obeying Jesus is optional? Do you not understand the concept that God does the good work in the believer? Do you not understand that the believer merely yields to the work God wants to do in us? Do you understand that we cannot take the credit for any of the work God does in us? What do you make of Ezekiel 36:26-27?

 

[kodiak]

So we just do evil and think we are saved? Is that what you are saying? We can be our own Lord's and masters instead of making Jesus our Lord? Well, to not obey has consequences that are not good according to God's Word. Tell me, how can you not forgive and still be forgiven? (Matthew 6:15). How can you hate your brother and still have eternal life abiding in you? (1 John 3:15). Also, nowhere did I say we are justified in obeying a certain set of rules alone in and of itself. Once a person is born again spiritually and they have God living in them, then God will do the work in their heart and lives if they yield to Him (See Ezekiel 36:26-27). Salvation is always God's grace 100% because if you do fail to do what God is commanding you, we have His grace to help us. Not so as to continue in sin, but to overcome it. For it is the Lord that is working in us to being conformed to the image of the Son. Also, usually when the word "Law" appears in the New Testament, it is a reference to the "Law of Moses" which has been done away with at the cross. For Christians are under a New Covenant that has it's own laws and commands. For there is the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2). The Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). The royal law, etc. In fact, Paul had said that what he had written should be considered as the Lord's commandments.

You have twisted what I was saying. Do you believe that We have to be justified by the law in order to be saved? I do not believe we are to continue in our old life. Where did I say we cannot forgive and still be forgiven? You are arguing against something that I am not even stating. I have never said that we can still live our old life and be saved. The fruit of the spirit shows that we are true believers....1 John 2:19 clearly shows that true believers will remain in Christ and with fellow believers. You seem to be preaching sinless perfectionism, which the Bible also clearly states is wrong.
1 John 1: 8-10
"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
But we are also called to walk in the way that Christ walked.

 

[Utah]

Those who condone a "sin and still be saved" type belief or doctrine. Most of them believe in a teaching called "Once Saved Always Saved" or Eternal Security. Meaning, these are the type of believers who hold to the idea that abiding in one or two unrepentant sins and then dying in that sin (like say "lying" or "lusting") will not send one to Hell. All one needs is to have is a mental acknowledgement type faith. Yes, some will say that you have to generally live a holy life, but they will also say that you will also forever be a slave to your sin. That you cannot actually forsake your wicked ways completely. They believe all future sin is forgiven a person, too. So this then takes away any incentive of them doing in what is good and right completely, too.

So you're saying the power of sin is more powerful than the power of Love.

And since God is Love you're saying God is weak. Gotcha!

 

[psychomom]

Also, nowhere did I say we are justified in obeying a certain set of rules alone in and of itself.

actually, that's what you say pretty much everywhere.

Obeying Jesus and or His Commands is never wrong; Do you think it is wrong to obey Him? Do you think obeying Jesus is optional? Do you not understand the concept that God does the good work in the believer? Do you not understand that the believer merely yields to the work God wants to do in us? Do you understand that we cannot take the credit for any of the work God does in us? What do you make of Ezekiel 36:26-27?

okay, take a breath.
i didn't mean to exasperate you.

i'm not understanding how the second of your posts above relates to what went before.
and you're not understanding the Gospel.

we can talk about it, if you wish, but i'll wait for an invitation. yes, Ezekiel 36 describes the Gospel. it's a lovely chapter about what God does for sinners (see all the "I will"s)

it's never wrong to obey God, Jason, it's always right. but there is a problem when you confuse why it's done, for whom, and what it accomplishes.

you don't like to discuss your personal life online and i respect that.
so though you may already do this, or think you do this, please get to a Bible preaching church and sit under some good teaching. God's Law and God's Gospel every week.

you need to learn the difference.

 

[psychomom]

So you're saying the power of sin is more powerful than the power of Love.

And since God is Love you're saying God is weak. Gotcha!

yes, his convoluted categories of 'states of being saved' reveal just how much he needs help with these theological truths.

 

[twamps21]

This subject has vexed me since I became a Christian and every avenue I have gone down to try and understand is has not helped at all. Most of the explanations I hear sound false. I don't like people using the word 'security' when they are talking about our salvation. It sounds more like 'free-pass' to me. The other thing is, why would GOD encourage us not to be lead astray so adamantly if we can't lose our salvation due to us being saved? Here is something I read from a site I looked at:

"I am a believer (has accepted Christ). I used to believe as you that once saved always saved. And I think I still DO believe that. However, recently, a man a work who belongs to Assembly of God church tells me that we can lose our salvation and have our names blotted out of the lambs book of life. He says that if you are back-slidden and don' repent you will NOT go to heaven, and that you WILL LOSE your salvation. He states Revelation 17:8 and Revelation 3:5 pertaining to "those blotted out" are believers, otherwise their names would not have been written in the book. Please decipher this message for me. Now, all of a sudden, I feel that I have lost the joy of my salvation and am extremely worried that sins I have committed or am going to will make me lose salvation" (Guided By Truth: Can a believer's name be blotted out of the book of life?)

My first thought was, well if you have unrepented sin in your life, maybe you should be worried, but don't wallow, just repent. If you don't than you have no reason to wonder because GOD's people are not meant to fear. I believe we can give up our inheritance of Salvation if WE so choose. No one else can snatch us away, but we can leave. But, I can't be sure. I believe that when Yahshua says "I will not lose any of HIS that HE has given me" that HE is referring to those who will remain in the Book of Life even after death. My dad and his side of the family say that they are Christians and my dad even says that he has the baptism of the holy spirit and I believe that he does, but he lies, he hates, he doesn't forgive, he bares false witness, he divides his family, and he gives way to his selfishness. I do not see GOD in him. That pretty much describes his whole side of the family. I do not believe any of them get a free pass because they were saved. It is not because I am angry at them that I believe that, it is because it would literally make no sense. It is not scriptural. The closest I came to maybe getting some understanding was this article: 4.3. Names Blotted Out Commentary - A Testimony of Jesus Christ There being three different Books of Life would make sense as to why GOD would even make mention of blotting someones name out of the Book of Life, right? But I see no evidence of three books. They mentioned Psalms 69:28 as talking about the Book of the Living, "May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.", but that says that the righteous are in that book, too, so that's not right. Unsaved believers are no different than unsaved nonbelievers because that are both unsaved and have both been presented with the same Truth and the opportunity to be saved. I don't see three Books of Life anywhere. So, the only explanation is that, those who get erased are those who gave up their inheritance.

This is actually a subject I've done quite a bit of research on after reading Revelation 5:3. I've always believed that once you are saved you can not lose it. That is why Jesus paid the ultimate price and died for our sins. That includes past present and future. The best explanation that I could find is that the author of revelation was using the technique of litotes which is using something negative to say something positive. Using this technique we can interpret Revelation 3:5 as meaning that if we can overcome and not backslide we will be greatly rewarded in heaven in addition to KEEPING our names in the book of life. This however does not mean that those who backslide will lose their salvation. Litotes is an understatement used to emphasize the others point, in this case a great reward. In John 6:39 Jesus says He will never cast out those who repent and come to Him.

I am obviously not God and am not claiming to know exactly what He meant but this is just the best explanation I found and is what I believe.

 

[Gr8grace]

This is actually a subject I've done quite a bit of research on after reading Revelation 5:3. I've always believed that once you are saved you can not lose it. That is why Jesus paid the ultimate price and died for our sins. That includes past present and future. The best explanation that I could find is that the author of revelation was using the technique of litotes which is using something negative to say something positive. Using this technique we can interpret Revelation 3:5 as meaning that if we can overcome and not backslide we will be greatly rewarded in heaven in addition to KEEPING our names in the book of life. This however does not mean that those who backslide will lose their salvation. Litotes is an understatement used to emphasize the others point, in this case a great reward. In John 6:39 Jesus says He will never cast out those who repent and come to Him.

I am obviously not God and am not claiming to know exactly what He meant but this is just the best explanation I found and is what I believe.

In reality, Rev 3:5 is talking about our title, our rank and reign in His Kingdom......Our NEW name(title). As a believer, our name(John,Alice,Mary,Joe,Pete......) can never be blotted out, but our Title and Rank can be if we do not endure.

Rev 3:12~~New American Standard Bible
'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.

 

[flob]

In reality, Rev 3:5 is talking about our title, our rank and reign in His Kingdom......Our NEW name(title). As a believer, our name(John,Alice,Mary,Joe,Pete......) can never be blotted out, but our Title and Rank can be if we do not endure.

One's eternal salvation, destination, can never be lost. Once born again, always born again.
But one's name can be temporarily erased (for the 1000 year kingdom period). Because there is both reward......and punishment. As in Hebrews 12. God is not a stupid Father, but a loving one

 

[valiant]

This subject has vexed me since I became a Christian and every avenue I have gone down to try and understand is has not helped at all. Most of the explanations I hear sound false. I don't like people using the word 'security' when they are talking about our salvation. It sounds more like 'free-pass' to me. The other thing is, why would GOD encourage us not to be lead astray so adamantly if we can't lose our salvation due to us being saved? Here is something I read from a site I looked at:

"I am a believer (has accepted Christ). I used to believe as you that once saved always saved. And I think I still DO believe that. However, recently, a man a work who belongs to Assembly of God church tells me that we can lose our salvation and have our names blotted out of the lambs book of life. He says that if you are back-slidden and don' repent you will NOT go to heaven, and that you WILL LOSE your salvation. He states Revelation 17:8 and Revelation 3:5 pertaining to "those blotted out" are believers, otherwise their names would not have been written in the book. Please decipher this message for me. Now, all of a sudden, I feel that I have lost the joy of my salvation and am extremely worried that sins I have committed or am going to will make me lose salvation" (Guided By Truth: Can a believer's name be blotted out of the book of life?)

My first thought was, well if you have unrepented sin in your life, maybe you should be worried, but don't wallow, just repent. If you don't than you have no reason to wonder because GOD's people are not meant to fear. I believe we can give up our inheritance of Salvation if WE so choose. No one else can snatch us away, but we can leave. But, I can't be sure. I believe that when Yahshua says "I will not lose any of HIS that HE has given me" that HE is referring to those who will remain in the Book of Life even after death. My dad and his side of the family say that they are Christians and my dad even says that he has the baptism of the holy spirit and I believe that he does, but he lies, he hates, he doesn't forgive, he bares false witness, he divides his family, and he gives way to his selfishness. I do not see GOD in him. That pretty much describes his whole side of the family. I do not believe any of them get a free pass because they were saved. It is not because I am angry at them that I believe that, it is because it would literally make no sense. It is not scriptural. The closest I came to maybe getting some understanding was this article: 4.3. Names Blotted Out Commentary - A Testimony of Jesus Christ There being three different Books of Life would make sense as to why GOD would even make mention of blotting someones name out of the Book of Life, right? But I see no evidence of three books. They mentioned Psalms 69:28 as talking about the Book of the Living, "May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.", but that says that the righteous are in that book, too, so that's not right. Unsaved believers are no different than unsaved nonbelievers because that are both unsaved and have both been presented with the same Truth and the opportunity to be saved. I don't see three Books of Life anywhere. So, the only explanation is that, those who get erased are those who gave up their inheritance.

Let us be clear about one thing, Rev 3.5 does NOT say that someone can have their names blotted out of the book of life, it actually says that they cannot. The reference to NOT being blotted out is a negative enforcing a positive. It is saying, rather than your name being blotted out of the book of life I will confess your name before My Father. The name being blotted out is a theoretical position.

Moses called on God to blot his name out of 'the book which you have written' if He was unwilling to forgive Israel. Do you really think that Moses was offering to suffer eternal torment? He was talking about the book of the living. His point was that he was ready to die if God would not listen to him. God then said that He would only blot out of 'My book' those who deserved it. There is no suggestion that they were true believers. The penalty for them would be physical death.

A number of heavenly bools are mentioned by Scripture, for example, the book which God has written (Exod 32.32), and the book of remembrance for those who feared the LORD (Malachi 3.16). The one the book of the names of those who were living regardless of spiritual state. The other a book of those especially favoured. These are clearly two distinct books. This reminds us that every city state in those days had two books. The book of those living in the city (whose names were blotted out when they died), and the book containing the names of those who had performed exceptional service for the city. No one was ever blotted out of that book.

Another book mentioned is that in which have been written the names of those who have been 'recorded for life in Jerusalem'. They are the holy ones who remain when God has purged away sin. The idea would seem to be that they, and they alone, had been 'recorded for life'. (Isaiah 4.3).

These two differing books may well both be in mind in Psalm 68.28, 'let them be blotted out of the book of the living, let them not be enrolled among the righteous'. But to be blotted out of the book of the living was to die. Eternal destiny was not specifically in mind.

When we come to the New Testament Jesus told His followers 'rejoice because your names are written in Heaven.' This was clearly a reference to the book of the righteous, a book solely for those truly belonging to Christ.

This same comparison comes out in Rev 3.5. They will NOT be blotted out of the book of life, but will be confessed before the Father.

On the other hand 'the Lamb's book of life' is a distinct book, as is revealed by the distinct name. Those whose names are in it have NEVER worshiped the Beast in any form (Rev 13.8), For their names are in there precisely because they have not worshiped the Beast. And they were written there from the foundation of the world. They are overcomers. The dwellers on earth are those whose names have NOT been written in it from the foundation of the world (Rev 17.8. And what was the point of writing the names of the overcomers in it so permanently if they could be blotted out? They were part of God's eternal purpose.