Theories of the Atonement

[RussellJBenigno]

You're a breath of fresh air around here. You hardly ever hear someone in this forum stating that they believe a certain way, or that thus and such is their interpretation.

No, things are usually stated as "matters of fact", as though the poster was sitting right beside God when the statement was first made. Being unsure or curious seems to be considered a fault by some in here. (I sure hope they don't wake up to a big surprise one day..... unless it is on this side of death, and they still have a chance to get some things right.)

I have come to the conclusion I don't know much after years of study. The problem with modern christianity is the additions to the faith which nullify it. When God had me reread the Gospels without the modern additions I was astounded by how far the faith has moved from its original foundation. Now i had to do 30yrs or more of relearning from the original text by even bypassing translator bias. Also figuring out idioms bypassed by translation. The biggest idiom was "Eternal life". We think Jesus was speaking about living forever but the text is the exact opposite. It is a concept of "Fullness and richness of life" in the here and now. The translators just took it at face value "life that has no end" where as it means "fullness of life that has no end", a big difference. This is indicated in the context of the text. Every reference is to the here and now. Nobody was asking Jesus how to live forever, but how to have a rich and meaningful life. Every answer Jesus gives indicates this. When the rich young ruler asked Jesus about this eternal life, Jesus gave him a strange answer that everyone ignores. Jesus asked the young man,"Are you following the 10 commandments?. The answer is simple, but we are taught to ignore it because it does not fit the modern fallacy. The answer is found in Deuteronomy 28:1-14 and it is a blessing for a rich and meaningful life. Jesus gave him the correct answer to his question. Modern christianity has perverted it. When I found this I realized just about everything I was taught was mostly wrong.

 

[Raok]

Sometimes I think false information is put out there by the wicked or lost soul or some type of spirit that is not beneficial, but God has a way of letting us know that what we read is either false or true, by gift of the Holy Ghost. Imagine believing something that was totally wrong but you knew you where right deep down inside and caused you to do a number of actions that you thought where righteous because you know that the words you where reading the guidance from the people around you where true intentions where good. In your judgment. Then one day God comes along sees what you are doing and how you are thinking and so on and says Forgive them father for they know not what they do. Then your eyes open. All that was once ailing you and troubling you is now gone the true word and guidance of the One blessed upon you and now your life is fulfilled and that much sweeter. You could not have gotten to that point without first being in the wrong. And then all things are made known.

Remember Paul how he persecuted the church, thought he was doing right by the government or whatever Job he was doing and then Jesus reveals himself to him and then Paul is like ok will I guess I have to build the church now. He somehow developed one zealous pationate manner that benefited the multitudes but I bet there would not have been that strong of a shift without first doing what is Ill in the eyes of the Lord.

Hope this cheers you up a little. Help you to understand that your efforts are not in Vain and The true Gospel is with The Lord Jesus Christ himself.

 

[PeterJens]

I have come to the conclusion I don't know much after years of study. The problem with modern christianity is the additions to the faith which nullify it. When God had me reread the Gospels without the modern additions I was astounded by how far the faith has moved from its original foundation. Now i had to do 30yrs or more of relearning from the original text by even bypassing translator bias. Also figuring out idioms bypassed by translation. The biggest idiom was "Eternal life". We think Jesus was speaking about living forever but the text is the exact opposite. It is a concept of "Fullness and richness of life" in the here and now. The translators just took it at face value "life that has no end" where as it means "fullness of life that has no end", a big difference. This is indicated in the context of the text. Every reference is to the here and now. Nobody was asking Jesus how to live forever, but how to have a rich and meaningful life. Every answer Jesus gives indicates this. When the rich young ruler asked Jesus about this eternal life, Jesus gave him a strange answer that everyone ignores. Jesus asked the young man,"Are you following the 10 commandments?. The answer is simple, but we are taught to ignore it because it does not fit the modern fallacy. The answer is found in Deuteronomy 28:1-14 and it is a blessing for a rich and meaningful life. Jesus gave him the correct answer to his question. Modern christianity has perverted it. When I found this I realized just about everything I was taught was mostly wrong.

Interesting point about eternal life. I agree that Jesus is talking about life to the full now, but this is in relationships and emotional fulfillment.

The rich young man goes away sad, because his security of life, is in his wealth, not in God, or in his community and relationships he will learn to develop. Jesus called this riches in heaven.

Jesus goes on to say, by following Him everything you give up will come back 100's greater, but this is not in wealth terms, mine all mine, but love and grace terms, you will know people from the heart, and build good relationships and sharing, as well as gaining eternal life, because this is the Kingdom.

 

[p_rehbein]

Absolutely correct! How does a physical death pay for spiritual sin? I think there is more to the cross than we know.

I can accept that. I view man as neutral, neither good nor evil, but tossed and buffeted from all sides mentally, emotionally and spiritually.

Correct! ALL things in heaven and earth [human and fallen angel] were reconciled back to God by the death of Christ An act of infinite Love.
(Col 1:20 [WORNT])
and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace by the blood of his cross; by Him only, whether they be things on earth, or things in heaven.

Intentional or simply because of lack of understanding, these are very dangerous statements to be making IN MY OPINION.

You are making "worthless" the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, who shed His precious blood on Calvary's cross through your statement(s). His precious blood IS what cleanses/washes us of our sins. To try and separate physical sins from spiritual sins, and in so doing, implying that while His blood MAY HAVE atoned for our PHYSICAL sins, it could not have atoned for our Spiritual sins is a very dangerous assertion.

Some time ago (a year or so), there was another here who had a similar view, and he proposed that Jesus died NOT ONLY physically on the cross, but His SPIRIT died as well. He asserted that this was the ONLY way our spiritual sins could have been covered. To state this IS TO DENY the Deity of Jesus Christ. He isn't around anymore, or, maybe he is?

How you or I view men is of NO IMPORTANCE, by what authority do WE assert OUR views of men? The ONLY view of men that has ANY authority is how GOD views men/mankind, and I assure you, He has declared that ALL have sinned and MUST be reconciled to Him. This reconciliation is ONLY made possible by the precious blood of Jesus Christ which you have earlier discounted as not being enough.

The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior PROVIDED the PATH to reconciliation with God, it did not AUTOMATICALLY reconcile ANYONE to God. You are completely discounting the act of REPENTANCE and making a lie of the words of Jesus Himself found in John 3:16 and many other Scriptures. The "fallen angels" who chose to rebel against God along with Satin, and were cast out of heaven HAVE NOT been reconciled to Him.

On one hand, you completely discount that the precious blood of Jesus Christ is ENOUGH to atone for sins (physical AND spiritual) and on the other hand you state that His precious blood atoned for the sins of BOTH physical and spiritual beings. I am left wondering how you "reconcile" your two very different assertions?

Stating that man is "neither good nor evil" is an attempt to REMOVE any guilt from man for his sinful acts. There are more than a few ideologies at work here woven among your various comments.

Predestination, denial of "free will," denial of the Deity of Jesus Christ, all paths lead to heaven, and "works" based salvation are but a few that jump right out.

Intentional or not, your comments here are very dangerous comments.

 

[PeterJens]

Intentional or simply because of lack of understanding, these are very dangerous statements to be making IN MY OPINION.

I agree that this idea of separating out sin into various types does not make sense to me. We are all individuals, who sin.
The sin is about destructive acts done inappropriately. What type of act, or how it works out, seems irrelevent, it is an indication of failure and lack of communion with the Lord.

If fellowship and open sharing with the Lord from the heart takes away the desire to sin and therefore the actions that result, there seems little point trying to divide sin into catagories. We are either reconciled and made righteous or not.
Equally Jesus either is the full reconciliation or He is not, in which case it is all pointless.

 

[RussellJBenigno]

Interesting point about eternal life. I agree that Jesus is talking about life to the full now, but this is in relationships and emotional fulfillment.

The rich young man goes away sad, because his security of life, is in his wealth, not in God, or in his community and relationships he will learn to develop. Jesus called this riches in heaven.

Jesus goes on to say, by following Him everything you give up will come back 100's greater, but this is not in wealth terms, mine all mine, but love and grace terms, you will know people from the heart, and build good relationships and sharing, as well as gaining eternal life, because this is the Kingdom.

You have to read Deuteronomy 28:1-14 it refers to all of life. The problem with the young man was that his acquiring of wealth was not by faith. Jesus had a seamless garment which is not these rags we see Him wear in the movies. They always had money to give to the poor. They never lacked food, clothing or a place to sleep and this is apparent when they were sent out by two's. Feeding of the 1000's! You are right but there is way more.

 

[RussellJBenigno]

My comments are based on the unaltered scripture. If you need to alter the scripture to fit your view then something is wrong. Much of modern christianity is based on altered scripture. The meanings of words had to be changed in order to fit vain imaginations. If the the scripture says "ALL" is reconciled then "ALL" is reconciled, period, done, over. I'm not being nasty here, but Many of the definitions you use to come to your conclusions are in reality vain imaginations. How do I know? Because I once believed them. There is spiritual and physical healing in the cross and nothing is being denied, unless you don't receive the, "ALL" is reconciled. Then something is being denied!

 

[RussellJBenigno]

I agree that this idea of separating out sin into various types does not make sense to me. We are all individuals, who sin.
The sin is about destructive acts done inappropriately. What type of act, or how it works out, seems irrelevent, it is an indication of failure and lack of communion with the Lord.

If fellowship and open sharing with the Lord from the heart takes away the desire to sin and therefore the actions that result, there seems little point trying to divide sin into categories. We are either reconciled and made righteous or not.
Equally Jesus either is the full reconciliation or He is not, in which case it is all pointless.

Yes and I understand why. The separation is because I have found that in the original Greek there is "A Sin" [singular] and "Sins" [plural]. When it speaks of Christ dying for sins the Greek is "A Sin" [singular] and not "Sins" [plural]. This leads me to the Sin of Adam, "Sin" [singular] and this sin needs removal by God. Now "Sins" [plural] are used of common sins of the flesh. These sins were capable of being removed by common believers [if you don't forgive then neither will you be forgiven]the Apostles [whosoever sin you forgive will be forgiven] and later Elders of the church. [if any are sick call the elders and forgive their sins to be healed.] I only go according to what is in scripture. I gave the commentary definitions up a long time ago.

 

[Raok]

I wonder if something that is Good cannot also be Evil so therefore man is in the middle. Cannot be one or the other. Man is not devil so cannot be evil for the devil only knows evil. Perhaps man can be inspired by that but cannot in himself be evil and when the devil does to the feet of Jesus cause Jesus obviously knows more then the devil in his own ways then makes the man Good. For if Jesus is God then God is Good then Man can be inspired to be Good by knowing the ways of the Creator.

Good and bad are subjective but is Good and Evil constant? Not to be interchangeable? To call a man Good or Evil would be judging anyways not allowed to do that.

Let me know what you all think feed back is much appreciated. First time connecting with Christians so bare with me.

 

[RussellJBenigno]

Intentional or simply because of lack of understanding, these are very dangerous statements to be making IN MY OPINION.

You are making "worthless" the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, who shed His precious blood on Calvary's cross through your statement(s). His precious blood IS what cleanses/washes us of our sins. To try and separate physical sins from spiritual sins, and in so doing, implying that while His blood MAY HAVE atoned for our PHYSICAL sins, it could not have atoned for our Spiritual sins is a very dangerous assertion.

Some time ago (a year or so), there was another here who had a similar view, and he proposed that Jesus died NOT ONLY physically on the cross, but His SPIRIT died as well. He asserted that this was the ONLY way our spiritual sins could have been covered. To state this IS TO DENY the Deity of Jesus Christ. He isn't around anymore, or, maybe he is?

How you or I view men is of NO IMPORTANCE, by what authority do WE assert OUR views of men? The ONLY view of men that has ANY authority is how GOD views men/mankind, and I assure you, He has declared that ALL have sinned and MUST be reconciled to Him. This reconciliation is ONLY made possible by the precious blood of Jesus Christ which you have earlier discounted as not being enough.

The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior PROVIDED the PATH to reconciliation with God, it did not AUTOMATICALLY reconcile ANYONE to God. You are completely discounting the act of REPENTANCE and making a lie of the words of Jesus Himself found in John 3:16 and many other Scriptures. The "fallen angels" who chose to rebel against God along with Satin, and were cast out of heaven HAVE NOT been reconciled to Him.

On one hand, you completely discount that the precious blood of Jesus Christ is ENOUGH to atone for sins (physical AND spiritual) and on the other hand you state that His precious blood atoned for the sins of BOTH physical and spiritual beings. I am left wondering how you "reconcile" your two very different assertions?

Stating that man is "neither good nor evil" is an attempt to REMOVE any guilt from man for his sinful acts. There are more than a few ideologies at work here woven among your various comments.

Predestination, denial of "free will," denial of the Deity of Jesus Christ, all paths lead to heaven, and "works" based salvation are but a few that jump right out.

Intentional or not, your comments here are very dangerous comments.

Reconciliation does not necessitate family reunion for lack of better words. The prodigal son was forgiven from day one and the door of Reconciliation was always open for him to come back. Being forgiven is not the same as being saved [the biblical saved as found in the story] God has reconciled all things back to Himself, even satan. But! But not saved. If satan does not stay in the reconciliation given, who's that on? When Jesus died He secured Reconciliation for "ALL", but to stay in the Reconciliation is another story.

 

[RussellJBenigno]

Intentional or simply because of lack of understanding, these are very dangerous statements to be making IN MY OPINION.

You are making "worthless" the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, who shed His precious blood on Calvary's cross through your statement(s). His precious blood IS what cleanses/washes us of our sins. To try and separate physical sins from spiritual sins, and in so doing, implying that while His blood MAY HAVE atoned for our PHYSICAL sins, it could not have atoned for our Spiritual sins is a very dangerous assertion.

Some time ago (a year or so), there was another here who had a similar view, and he proposed that Jesus died NOT ONLY physically on the cross, but His SPIRIT died as well. He asserted that this was the ONLY way our spiritual sins could have been covered. To state this IS TO DENY the Deity of Jesus Christ. He isn't around anymore, or, maybe he is?

How you or I view men is of NO IMPORTANCE, by what authority do WE assert OUR views of men? The ONLY view of men that has ANY authority is how GOD views men/mankind, and I assure you, He has declared that ALL have sinned and MUST be reconciled to Him. This reconciliation is ONLY made possible by the precious blood of Jesus Christ which you have earlier discounted as not being enough.

The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior PROVIDED the PATH to reconciliation with God, it did not AUTOMATICALLY reconcile ANYONE to God. You are completely discounting the act of REPENTANCE and making a lie of the words of Jesus Himself found in John 3:16 and many other Scriptures. The "fallen angels" who chose to rebel against God along with Satin, and were cast out of heaven HAVE NOT been reconciled to Him.

On one hand, you completely discount that the precious blood of Jesus Christ is ENOUGH to atone for sins (physical AND spiritual) and on the other hand you state that His precious blood atoned for the sins of BOTH physical and spiritual beings. I am left wondering how you "reconcile" your two very different assertions?

Stating that man is "neither good nor evil" is an attempt to REMOVE any guilt from man for his sinful acts. There are more than a few ideologies at work here woven among your various comments.

Predestination, denial of "free will," denial of the Deity of Jesus Christ, all paths lead to heaven, and "works" based salvation are but a few that jump right out.

Intentional or not, your comments here are very dangerous comments.

" Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sins [A Sin singular] of the world". Period, done, over, a "Free Gift". If this statement is not true then John was a liar and false prophet and the Holy Spirit did not speak through him.
Dangerous comments! By whom?

 

[RussellJBenigno]

I wonder if something that is Good cannot also be Evil so therefore man is in the middle. Cannot be one or the other. Man is not devil so cannot be evil for the devil only knows evil. Perhaps man can be inspired by that but cannot in himself be evil and when the devil does to the feet of Jesus cause Jesus obviously knows more then the devil in his own ways then makes the man Good. For if Jesus is God then God is Good then Man can be inspired to be Good by knowing the ways of the Creator.

Good and bad are subjective but is Good and Evil constant? Not to be interchangeable? To call a man Good or Evil would be judging anyways not allowed to do that.

Let me know what you all think feed back is much appreciated. First time connecting with Christians so bare with me.

You do better to read the Gospels first. You are going to get all sorts of opinion. Some of us would agree with your assessment, other will tell you man is evil period.

The idea of not judging is a mistranslation. A more appropriate term is "appraise". How you appraise another will be how you are appraised.

 

[Willie-T]

I wonder if something that is Good cannot also be Evil so therefore man is in the middle. Cannot be one or the other. Man is not devil so cannot be evil for the devil only knows evil. Perhaps man can be inspired by that but cannot in himself be evil and when the devil does to the feet of Jesus cause Jesus obviously knows more then the devil in his own ways then makes the man Good. For if Jesus is God then God is Good then Man can be inspired to be Good by knowing the ways of the Creator.

Good and bad are subjective but is Good and Evil constant? Not to be interchangeable? To call a man Good or Evil would be judging anyways not allowed to do that.
Let me know what you all think feed back is much appreciated. First time connecting with Christians so bare with me.

We are certainly "allowed" to judge, or else it wouldn't happen all the time. As Russell said, the important thing to keep in mind is that what we carry in our hearts about others, and thus nurture as a reactionary part of ourselves ("as a man thinketh, so is he) is what Jesus will see when He looks at us on that last day. And, after all, in the Lord's Prayer, we DO ask to be forgiven (judged) only as malevolently,( or hopefully, benevolently), as we also judge others.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus. the lamb of God who take away (makes atonement) the sin of the world.

All one has to do is go to the OT to see what this means. The priest made atonement for the sin of the people by sacrificing the innocent, and pure lamb. It "COVERED" the sin of the people.

sin is sin is sin. all sin is an abomination to God. he does not separate levels of sin, except only for our benefit. but to him, even the least of all sins makes us guilty of the law. and condemnaed APART from Christ's atoning sacrifice.

 

[PeterJens]

Yes and I understand why. The separation is because I have found that in the original Greek there is "A Sin" [singular] and "Sins" [plural]. When it speaks of Christ dying for sins the Greek is "A Sin" [singular] and not "Sins" [plural]. This leads me to the Sin of Adam, "Sin" [singular] and this sin needs removal by God. Now "Sins" [plural] are used of common sins of the flesh. These sins were capable of being removed by common believers [if you don't forgive then neither will you be forgiven]the Apostles [whosoever sin you forgive will be forgiven] and later Elders of the church. [if any are sick call the elders and forgive their sins to be healed.] I only go according to what is in scripture. I gave the commentary definitions up a long time ago.

Let me make a simple point. You are hanging an idea about sin on whether a word is singular or plural.
I could say the sin of the world, meaning its general attitude to God is rebellion or the sins of the world, meaning the actual acts that show the rebellion, but I am talking about the same thing but from different perspectives.

He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification. Rom 4:25
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures 1 Cor 15:3
who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, Gal 1:4
God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, Col 2:13

All these quotes talk about sins in the plural. So I am at a loss how you get your concept.

The rich young man and his wealth, nothing is said how he got his wealth but the implication that he walked away sad because Jesus said he had to give up his wealth to follow Him. So the young man had to place his security in Jesus, before he could really find perfection. Now whether from this point of trust wealth comes or not, is not significant to taking that first step. The desire for wealth as the worlds way is being challenged, but you are implying this is wrong.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I wonder if something that is Good cannot also be Evil so therefore man is in the middle. Cannot be one or the other. Man is not devil so cannot be evil for the devil only knows evil. Perhaps man can be inspired by that but cannot in himself be evil and when the devil does to the feet of Jesus cause Jesus obviously knows more then the devil in his own ways then makes the man Good. For if Jesus is God then God is Good then Man can be inspired to be Good by knowing the ways of the Creator.

Good and bad are subjective but is Good and Evil constant? Not to be interchangeable? To call a man Good or Evil would be judging anyways not allowed to do that.

Let me know what you all think feed back is much appreciated. First time connecting with Christians so bare with me.

What we have to figure out is what real evil is. In Gods eyes, not in our own eyes. We do not have the same defenitions.

In mans eyes. murder is evil. And telling a small white lie is not, in fact we can justify our own white lie (some of us can even justify murder)

In Gods eyes, both are evil and deserving of death.

 

[PeterJens]

Sins forgiven

“Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.” Matt 9:2
“Son, your sins are forgiven.” Mart 2:5
“Friend, your sins are forgiven.” Luke 5:20

Jesus is forgiving a whole persons sins, not just some and leaving the others to one side.

 

[Raok]

Isnt it that Catholics put the power in the cross itself? That this would be a form of idolatry? The cross from my understanding is what you give to Jesus so that you do not have to deal with it. If one has to deal with the cross they will not make it. Imagine taking on sin after sin after sin everyday. for 10 hours a day listening to people talk about sin. Then you kept their sin without then giving it back to Jesus. You would surely folley for their sin then becomes an invader of your mind. Causing sin. The cross being the most sinful deal ever to happen actually then attracts every single sin imagineable with ease. So long as its not trapped in your soul. So yes the cross is a magnet to sin freeing you from itsself allowing you then to develop a relationship with God. Bring the cross to someone who is trapped in sin and see what happens. Almost instantaneously brings you under attack. That sin wants to keep ripping that soul of that person. That person thinks the sin is his and he cant let it go and that this is the only way. You keep hammering at him and maybe something miraculous will happen that drops him to his knees and then Christ can remove the sin from him. Or the opposite they just beat you up and chastise you for bringing them such a radical idea that has much power.

The Bible tells us to go out into the world and proclaim the Gospel teach the good news and stand up for Jesus Christ the Lord Almighty. Not only are we benefited from doing this and able to react and see the power of The cross but you also may save a life. If your not careful you could be imprisoned kid napped beat and so on. I have found certain people do not like people to know about Jesus because they will lose control over a person. Such as a pimp and his prostitute. A drug dealer and his addicts. Or simply they are a lover of evil think they can win go against God but they never do. What good is an agent of God if he dies in the name of the Lord. Unless the Lord knows that this is the only way and he lets you know I wouldn't share the Gospel in certain places but use other means to get the message to the Lost. Especially in modern society although it is pretty tempting to go to IRAN put up a cross and put some Bibles out and just wait.

Anyways Ive had a lot to share about and would appreciate feedback been studying and reading on my own for quite some time finally figured Id do some chatting with people that believe instead of always being around non believers which is tough very tough, People of God are so much easier to be around and better for the soul, Being around those that do not believe tend to put one on guard. Also people get tired of you trying to talk to them about Jesus. Because you know in your heart that whatever conversation having with a non believer means nothing unless about God or leading to God. Makes for an unpopular mindset especially since I;m unable to explain to them what it means be accepted, what good news the gospel really is, how the bible works and all the stories being what it is. Seems like we may never stop being in war and delivered here moved there and so on if history repeats itself.

Took a good amount of time before I started trying to talk to everyone about Jesus, seriously seems like the worst idea ever because you know what kind of response is going to happen before you even do it. Some might think its a curse others might just be scared or really like all the sin they do. Some just completely cannot even grasp the idea. Some think you mean them harm Like Jesus is going to mess them up or something. Others are angry at God for various reasons that are beyond God, They think that the faults of the World is God's fault. If even God did make a mistake wouldn't you want to show compassion for God Hes done a pretty food job so far. Who knows what he even had to work with. Perhaps we have to be in this state to advance to the next level.

But how does one go about conquering and defeating these poor ideals that people carry, That drop them to their knees everyday but turn to no one but themselves. How does one show the power of prayer and how wonderful it is to talk to God. Then I am saddened for if I cannot defeat these things with the power of Christ I cannot be in the presence of them. Eventually they will become so mad at me for pointing out all their flaws and trying to show them a way that changes their life or brings them back to the life they once had. I am then shunned. Perhaps patience and a little seed here and one there may grow into something worth while for a person.

I cant lead by example either I dont have 12 disciples following me the ability to heal ailments instantly, Respect from people of the street going to their knees being ever so thankful and delighted in the Lord. For I am not the Lord. But I bet you if your rolling a rolls royce with all types of bling and have pads that are beyond any normal household and then was told yep Jesus did all this for me he will for you too. All of a sudden everyone has a mansion that believes in Jesus. So then that would be a pretty good incentive. Oh wait there is one being prepared in the Kingdom of God for those that do his will.

Most would be like yeah cool I believe you sure when do I get this mansion, When you die. then they would be like will what good does that do right now I got kids I need food and your coming to me with stuff that is of no use. Instant offense. Therefore who know if you have a mansion in heaven you cannot promise anything for the future.

Those that worship and follow Jesus doing his works those that believe have faith and love in no matter what scale of society or position in life just know that all is good. Their decisions and paths in life tend to grant a long and fruitful life. With solid relationships. Is this the case all the time no. Sometimes it seems that people really loose there cool and all of a sudden think that they are christ or even can bless and purify certain parts of land putting crosses everywhere, trespassing on other people, This type of spirit is a sight to see. Often times though they are cutoff from councile and the rest of the world trapped inside themselves. Sure Jesus Christ wouldn't escape a mental hospital and offer one oxy codone and say I am he follow me back to the strip of las vegas knowing damn well that place is hell.

Or another who wheres sandles has books of all types scripture and pictures you wonder how those pictures where past on say amen amen, I am he Jesus all is well my son. Then going on to chant unrecognizable words. Shortly after talking about The Bible the police come and get him Like 15 of them. But Jesus said it was all cool.

There is much power in the spiritual world Sometimes seems like producing unwanted results but then what do I know about how someones spirit should be. I do know that when you encounter the unbeliever wrapped in the ways of the evil one is not cool and definitely worth the battle. But a spirit that misses the mark of a model Christian isnt so bad. Interesting talks come from this.

So who's to say what matter of spirit we are to be in. Whos code of honor is better then the next, the results is what we see in the people that believe. Who is moved the most by the spirit. Who is able to take this energy and Imply it in such a way that creates results. Is the goal of Christianity to have the most followers. Could the church even hand the whole world being Christians.

Mormans LDS or Christians atleast Lay a standard, They are not out there freely giving out hand outs. They make there followers work in Christ they shove the Gospel down your throat even if you dont want it because we know that its like giving someone medicine. Seems like sin is accepted in most Christian churches. That they allow people to still be members even after turning away from Jesus, Mormons will let you go classifying you as a Jack mormon or fallen from the Church, They will laugh at you for turning to sin allowing you to go off and venture the world until you have been torn to peices so you can then be restored to the church.

Christian churches Judge they often are the complete opposite of what they preach. I think this is do to not spreading the word but taking in all that preaching all that teaching and not applying it to their lives kind of like showing up just to show up. Why then is it after Baptism people think that is it theres nothing left to do. Im saved, I have my family to worry about the church works for me not I for the church or why not a two way streak, Why are most christian songs especially those rock ones and on the radio have lyrics that are completely selfish. Talking about what they have.

Catholic church is a whole other animal, Do they honestly believe thats how one should worship christ by parading his body around like some kind of trophy, Eating and drinking a representation of his flesh like they would kill him again just because they can? The health of the catholic church is not that great. Although they do do a lot of charity drives they have done more work then any other organization. They forced the Gospel as well. Imagine going into a foreign Land knowing that they have no chance to fight back. They are forced into bondage the Gospel spelled out. There whole entire way of life changed so that they can function as another civilization wants them too. Too take what they have and in return offer them words of Life. Just to give it all right back.

Seems to me that most people who feel established do not like meeting new people. Or going outside the wire. I say unto you that if you go beyond normal measures with your faith you begin to see more, cannot guarantee to be beneficial but you will learn. The Mormon church is the healthiest church I have ever seen. They walked the path of Jesus. Suffered persecution, stayed passive aggressive, practiced cleanliness, built temples like solomons sanctified marriage, have good upkeep on watching their people. Do not favor one over the other, And live by the template that was laid down by Jesus. They make their members go on mission benefiting themselves and the church, strong fellowship in the elders, best website and material to be found. Dead on about almost all manners of morality.

May your God bless you with abundance in abundance for abundance.

 

[RussellJBenigno]

We are certainly "allowed" to judge, or else it wouldn't happen all the time. As Russell said, the important thing to keep in mind is that what we carry in our hearts about others, and thus nurture as a reactionary part of ourselves ("as a man thinketh, so is he) is what Jesus will see when He looks at us on that last day. And, after all, in the Lord's Prayer, we DO ask to be forgiven (judged) only as malevolently,( or hopefully, benevolently), as we also judge others.

Yes! Correct! The verse actually transliterates, "condemn not others, for with what appraisal [examination a a jeweler checking a precious stone] you appraise another, so shall that standard of appraisal be used on you." For some strange reasoning the translators don't make a distinction between the words and thus use,"judge no least you be judged" which does not carry the true meaning.

 

[Raok]

I don't remember where I read don't judge in The Bible but has been bugging me for quite sometime because its impossible not too. If possible requires complete blankness or not a care at all for how things are. Or if someone could be a threat or what manner of spirit they are walking in. I guess to walk and talk in complete instinct would allow you not to judge as well. Or maybe I mixed it up with those who judge shall be judged as well. kind of like the plank in your eye deal. I guess then ultimately we will be Judged. They say that in heaven the saints and most righteous will help judge giving you an evaluation by peers to be placed in whatever level of heaven. That means that in all matters they will know what you have done, once again putting us in a ranking system is bull for if in heaven one goes about acting all righteous with the others then the non righteous got to be once again in a lower class. When I believe that if let in then no matter your standing everyone is able to be in everyones presence without having to judge each other and so on so forth. Early I wrote dont conscern yourself about the affairs of heaven and look at this hypocricy forgive me Lord Jesus for trying to right about the most Holy of ordeals. Everything is connected though. For if the ultimate goal is heaven and one can learn not to judge then he himself will not be judged and automatically granted. Is heaven really the place to be? I Hear people say they just want to be with the Lord how is that Heaven Jesus is going to kick my booty when he sees me in form but I like to think Ill be able to wash his feet let him know that he is glorified. Hopefully he can tell me why that was the plan of salvation that seriously there was no other way? Where did this sin come from and why if sin is not of God. If all you have is Jesus then that makes you an angel able to worship him all the time.

Do you really think that people go to hell? Often times I believe that a collective group of individuals where thinking how they could tame the mind. How would the mind try to escape if we tried to make it believe in something that is not seen nor heard of or felt by anything else ever known. How can we then begin to trick the mind and activate the areas of the brain that bring guilt but yet peace and relief but also fear in such a way that plays on all the aspects of human emotion. So that then we could show them a way that is not detrimental to themselves that captures their upmost attention for teaching. No human could be capable of coming up with the concept of Jesus Christ the Lord Almighty, so surely he must be God in flesh.
Maybe God has a way of playing with our minds and souls that he like to throw us curve balls because if left on our own, We'd be destined to fail?

All one has to do is believe and no further action is needed but obviously searching for God does become an obsession. This was horribly written and has too much Jargon so please pardon me if you read.

I have been to many a great churches, from all denominations and have found each one unique in their own right, Maybe each has taken on a task that the other doesn't have to do like the gathering of saints, certain rituals, and so on so forth that when all combined into one completely satisfy God our creator.

I feel that in order to really get the gospel to people you need to cover all ends of thought that a mind could go and know how to correct it with the right words at the right time with the right tone and the right authority with the right intentions. Any variance detected is like an instant rejection for telling the word is like being a vampire you cannot enter unless invited. If your true nature is detected then you will be meet with the opposition.

Also had the idea that if one comes to the belief of Jesus Christ and pursues him then Depending on their nature could be categorized into a church that would best them based on the Agents experience with this person. That would mean complete knowledge of all that is available.

I guess this already does happen naturally now that I really think about it. Anyways just trying to figure out my Job here any feedback always appreciated, I'm sure some of you are annoyed by bow so I thank you in advance for being patient and reading exactly how my thoughts work. So that then I too may have insight and correction to continue on this path from actual believers like yourselves. May peace be with you and also with you.