When does the rapture occur?

[flob]

No, Islam isn't. It stinks, it's evil, it's bad...........but it doesn't rise (or sink, if that's the word to use) to the level of the Antichrist. I guess the word 'rise.' He will be a lot more.......sophisticated. Deceptive. Alluring. European. He will call himself God. He won't be a "toad," like .............Hitler, or Mussolini, or Islam, or Mohammed

 

[FancyNancy]

I appreciate everything. I have been all over the world and have seen many horrors. We are blessed here but don't think that we are insulated from the horrors of Islam. Islam is the MOTHER OF ALL HARLOTS and the BEAST that carries her are the Muslims who want to wipe us out. Right now they don't have the means but stay tuned. You're right, it will get worse, a whole lot worse.

Islam isn't something I worry about, in the full scheme of things as the word lays it out for us.

I don't take my freedom and the blessing of God for granted, and I also know that as part of the Bride of Christ, my Bridegroom will whisk me away to the wedding as He promised, so that the Bride will remain spotless and unmolested by the enemy of God. The Tribulation is not for us, but for the Jew and the unbelieving world.

God never works two dispensations at the same time. This Church dispensation will end when the Church is removed and the Tribulation dispensation will begin, God reverting back to the time of the Law in order to reach the Jew for their Messiah. You need to not fight against what His word plainly teaches, but allow Him that time to reap a huge harvest among His precious people.

 

[PlainWord]

[/B]LOL! No, the Great Tribulation is for God to devote Himself to completing the time of the Jew, and unbelievers are going to undergo several harsh judgments from God and die in great numbers.[/SIZE]

As I said, many don't get it. Do yourself a favor and use the below link to open up an on-line Bible. Once you do, enter a key word search for "Tribulation." Look how the word is used throughout the Bible but in particular in the NT.

https://www.biblegateway.com/versions/New-King-James-Version-NKJV-Bible/

You will find the word, "tribulation(s)" used 32 times. In 31 of the 32 it is God's people suffering persecution and death at the hands of the wicked. The ONLY time it is used for something other than persecution of believers is when God promises to repay (GOD'S WRATH) the wicked with Tribulation for the Tribulation they are causing us.

Nancy, you have to learn the difference because if you don't you are flying blind when it comes to understanding the End Times.

 

[3Scoreand10]

Islam isn't something I worry about, in the full scheme of things as the word lays it out for us.

I don't take my freedom and the blessing of God for granted, and I also know that as part of the Bride of Christ, my Bridegroom will whisk me away to the wedding as He promised, so that the Bride will remain spotless and unmolested by the enemy of God. The Tribulation is not for us, but for the Jew and the unbelieving world.

Tell that to all those in the Middle East and Africa who have suffered so much in the last year!
I DARE you to try to explain to those Christians why they are suffering such tribulation and you will be UNMOLESTED by the enemy of God.
I DARE YOU!

 

[VCO]

NO! the 70th week of Daniel began at the baptism of Jesus when He was declared the Messiah.
It continued as Jesus presented Himself to the Jews.
He made a covenant with the MANY who received Him.
In the MIST of the week, those who rejected Him as the Messiah crucified Him and the time was paused until the revealing of the man of sin, at which time the last 1335 days of the 70th week and God's dealing with Israel will be fullfilled.
Daniel speaks of 1260 days, 1290 days, and 1335 days but never speaks of a 7 year peace treaty between the Jews and the Man of Sin.
John in The Revelation nor Jesus NEVER teach of a seven year peace tready between the Man of Sin and anybody.

COMMENTARIES ON DANIEL 9:27

9:27a. This verse unveils what will occur in the 70th seven years. This seven-year period will begin after the Rapture of the church (which will consummate God's program in this present Age).
The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.

9:27 We now come to the seventieth week. As mentioned previously, there is a time gap between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks. This parenthetical period is the Church Age, which extends from Pentecost to the Rapture.
Believer's Bible Commentary - by Dr. William MacDonald and Dr. Arthur L. Farstad

My friend, you and I are living in the age of grace, and the Seventieth Week of Daniel, the Great Tribulation, as the Lord Jesus called it, is yet to take place.
Thru The Bible with J. Vernon McGee.

One understanding of this passage is that the destruction and desolation described in Daniel takes place in 70 AD, when the Romans overthrow a Jewish uprising by completely demolishing the temple. The ruler at the time is Titus. Those events fit a portion of what Daniel is told to expect, but not all.
More likely, the final “seven” is a still-future period of time. It seems logical to relate this new information that Daniel receives from Gabriel with the prophet’s previous vision of the beast with the ten horns (7:19-27). If the ruler of 9:26-27 is the same as the boastful horn (7:20-22), the final “seven” will begin with the contract made by this malicious leader. He will break his covenant midway through, and great suffering will ensue for God’s people. But after a period of time, God will remove him from leadership and make all things right.
Layman's Bible Commentary - by Dr. Mark Strauss (Author), Robert Rayburn (Author), Dr. Stephen Leston (Author), Jeffrey Miller (Author)

9:27 Then. This is surely the end of the age, the Second Advent judgment, because the bringing in of righteousness did not occur seven years after the death of the Messiah, nor did the destruction of Jerusalem fit the seven-year period (occurring thirty-seven years later). This is the future seven-year period which ends with sin’s final judgment and Christ’s reign of righteousness; i.e., the return of Christ and the establishment of His rule.
The MacArthur Bible Commentary - by Dr. John MacArthur, Jr.

This verse describes what will happen in the 70th seven, the Tribulation period of 7 years. God sets this 70th seven off by itself because there is a gap or parenthesis between the 69th seven and the 70th. That time is the period of the church, the time between the first coming of Christ and the Rapture (Ep 3:1-6).
Verse-by-Verse Commentary - by Dr. Grant C. Richison (Campus Crusade for Christ)

Central to this passage is whether or not the 70th week of years is postponed or continuous. I believe this prophecy intends a gap of time between the 69th and 70th week and I want to summarize in a single article reasons for a future 70th week.
Pre-Trib Research Center - by Dr. Thomas Ice

But before all of those happy events, there is the day of God’s wrath to contend with — “the time of Jacob’s trouble” (Jer. 30:7). Little Israel is involved in close to 100% of End Times prophecy.
The Tribulation period, the 70th week of Daniel, will transpire when the Antichrist makes a peace covenant with the nation of Israel. That simple statement has been uttered for quite a few years, but we happen now to live in a time when people are riding up on a constant basis with peace treaties for Israel to sign. This mere fact by itself is grounds to suppose that the time is very short before the entrance of the one who will ultimately betray Israel and the world.
Levitt Letters - March 1997 - by ZOLA LEVITT http://www.levitt.com/essays/foreshocks

etc., etc.


Sorry, but these BIBLE Scholars, carry much more weight with me, and I agree with them wholeheartedly.

 

[3Scoreand10]

COMMENTARIES ON DANIEL 9:27

9:27a. This verse unveils what will occur in the 70th seven years. This seven-year period will begin after the Rapture of the church (which will consummate God's program in this present Age).
The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.

9:27 We now come to the seventieth week. As mentioned previously, there is a time gap between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks. This parenthetical period is the Church Age, which extends from Pentecost to the Rapture.
Believer's Bible Commentary - by Dr. William MacDonald and Dr. Arthur L. Farstad

My friend, you and I are living in the age of grace, and the Seventieth Week of Daniel, the Great Tribulation, as the Lord Jesus called it, is yet to take place.
Thru The Bible with J. Vernon McGee.

One understanding of this passage is that the destruction and desolation described in Daniel takes place in 70 AD, when the Romans overthrow a Jewish uprising by completely demolishing the temple. The ruler at the time is Titus. Those events fit a portion of what Daniel is told to expect, but not all.
More likely, the final “seven” is a still-future period of time. It seems logical to relate this new information that Daniel receives from Gabriel with the prophet’s previous vision of the beast with the ten horns (7:19-27). If the ruler of 9:26-27 is the same as the boastful horn (7:20-22), the final “seven” will begin with the contract made by this malicious leader. He will break his covenant midway through, and great suffering will ensue for God’s people. But after a period of time, God will remove him from leadership and make all things right.
Layman's Bible Commentary - by Dr. Mark Strauss (Author), Robert Rayburn (Author), Dr. Stephen Leston (Author), Jeffrey Miller (Author)

9:27 Then. This is surely the end of the age, the Second Advent judgment, because the bringing in of righteousness did not occur seven years after the death of the Messiah, nor did the destruction of Jerusalem fit the seven-year period (occurring thirty-seven years later). This is the future seven-year period which ends with sin’s final judgment and Christ’s reign of righteousness; i.e., the return of Christ and the establishment of His rule.
The MacArthur Bible Commentary - by Dr. John MacArthur, Jr.

This verse describes what will happen in the 70th seven, the Tribulation period of 7 years. God sets this 70th seven off by itself because there is a gap or parenthesis between the 69th seven and the 70th. That time is the period of the church, the time between the first coming of Christ and the Rapture (Ep 3:1-6).
Verse-by-Verse Commentary - by Dr. Grant C. Richison (Campus Crusade for Christ)

Central to this passage is whether or not the 70th week of years is postponed or continuous. I believe this prophecy intends a gap of time between the 69th and 70th week and I want to summarize in a single article reasons for a future 70th week.
Pre-Trib Research Center - by Dr. Thomas Ice

But before all of those happy events, there is the day of God’s wrath to contend with — “the time of Jacob’s trouble” (Jer. 30:7). Little Israel is involved in close to 100% of End Times prophecy.
The Tribulation period, the 70th week of Daniel, will transpire when the Antichrist makes a peace covenant with the nation of Israel. That simple statement has been uttered for quite a few years, but we happen now to live in a time when people are riding up on a constant basis with peace treaties for Israel to sign. This mere fact by itself is grounds to suppose that the time is very short before the entrance of the one who will ultimately betray Israel and the world.
Levitt Letters - March 1997 - by ZOLA LEVITT http://www.levitt.com/essays/foreshocks

etc., etc.


Sorry, but these BIBLE Scholars, carry much more weight with me, and I agree with them wholeheartedly.

So you are base your belief on the opinions of these men whose teaching is contray to the WORD.
That is your choice.
Have you ever set aside what these men teach and studied for your self?
I believe the WORD of GOD.

 

[3Scoreand10]

I will make the same challenge to you I made to FancyNancy in post 2984.

I DARE YOU!

 

[mwc68]

COMMENTARIES ON DANIEL 9:27

9:27a. This verse unveils what will occur in the 70th seven years. This seven-year period will begin after the Rapture of the church (which will consummate God's program in this present Age).
The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.

9:27 We now come to the seventieth week. As mentioned previously, there is a time gap between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks. This parenthetical period is the Church Age, which extends from Pentecost to the Rapture.
Believer's Bible Commentary - by Dr. William MacDonald and Dr. Arthur L. Farstad

My friend, you and I are living in the age of grace, and the Seventieth Week of Daniel, the Great Tribulation, as the Lord Jesus called it, is yet to take place.
Thru The Bible with J. Vernon McGee.

One understanding of this passage is that the destruction and desolation described in Daniel takes place in 70 AD, when the Romans overthrow a Jewish uprising by completely demolishing the temple. The ruler at the time is Titus. Those events fit a portion of what Daniel is told to expect, but not all.
More likely, the final “seven” is a still-future period of time. It seems logical to relate this new information that Daniel receives from Gabriel with the prophet’s previous vision of the beast with the ten horns (7:19-27). If the ruler of 9:26-27 is the same as the boastful horn (7:20-22), the final “seven” will begin with the contract made by this malicious leader. He will break his covenant midway through, and great suffering will ensue for God’s people. But after a period of time, God will remove him from leadership and make all things right.
Layman's Bible Commentary - by Dr. Mark Strauss (Author), Robert Rayburn (Author), Dr. Stephen Leston (Author), Jeffrey Miller (Author)

9:27 Then. This is surely the end of the age, the Second Advent judgment, because the bringing in of righteousness did not occur seven years after the death of the Messiah, nor did the destruction of Jerusalem fit the seven-year period (occurring thirty-seven years later). This is the future seven-year period which ends with sin’s final judgment and Christ’s reign of righteousness; i.e., the return of Christ and the establishment of His rule.
The MacArthur Bible Commentary - by Dr. John MacArthur, Jr.

This verse describes what will happen in the 70th seven, the Tribulation period of 7 years. God sets this 70th seven off by itself because there is a gap or parenthesis between the 69th seven and the 70th. That time is the period of the church, the time between the first coming of Christ and the Rapture (Ep 3:1-6).
Verse-by-Verse Commentary - by Dr. Grant C. Richison (Campus Crusade for Christ)

Central to this passage is whether or not the 70th week of years is postponed or continuous. I believe this prophecy intends a gap of time between the 69th and 70th week and I want to summarize in a single article reasons for a future 70th week.
Pre-Trib Research Center - by Dr. Thomas Ice

But before all of those happy events, there is the day of God’s wrath to contend with — “the time of Jacob’s trouble” (Jer. 30:7). Little Israel is involved in close to 100% of End Times prophecy.
The Tribulation period, the 70th week of Daniel, will transpire when the Antichrist makes a peace covenant with the nation of Israel. That simple statement has been uttered for quite a few years, but we happen now to live in a time when people are riding up on a constant basis with peace treaties for Israel to sign. This mere fact by itself is grounds to suppose that the time is very short before the entrance of the one who will ultimately betray Israel and the world.
Levitt Letters - March 1997 - by ZOLA LEVITT http://www.levitt.com/essays/foreshocks

etc., etc.


Sorry, but these BIBLE Scholars, carry much more weight with me, and I agree with them wholeheartedly.

Obviously these so-called scholars carry more weight with you than the bible. And they even gave you math problems to work in your spare time

 

[3Scoreand10]

Have you noticed how these "scholars" promote each other as they sell their books and become more and more wealthy.

 

[FancyNancy]

As I said, many don't get it. Do yourself a favor and use the below link to open up an on-line Bible. Once you do, enter a key word search for "Tribulation." Look how the word is used throughout the Bible but in particular in the NT.

https://www.biblegateway.com/versions/New-King-James-Version-NKJV-Bible/

You will find the word, "tribulation(s)" used 32 times. In 31 of the 32 it is God's people suffering persecution and death at the hands of the wicked. The ONLY time it is used for something other than persecution of believers is when God promises to repay (GOD'S WRATH) the wicked with Tribulation for the Tribulation they are causing us.

Nancy, you have to learn the difference because if you don't you are flying blind when it comes to understanding the End Times.

YOU don't get it. I don't fly blind. I have known the Lord a long time and He has taught me from His word the difference (not hard, either) between normal everyday tribulation we are promised, and THE TRIBULATION that Jesus warned about.

Keep studying!! God wants you to not only know the truth, but to be in line with His people who already know it.

 

[FancyNancy]

Islam isn't something I worry about, in the full scheme of things as the word lays it out for us.

I don't take my freedom and the blessing of God for granted, and I also know that as part of the Bride of Christ, my Bridegroom will whisk me away to the wedding as He promised, so that the Bride will remain spotless and unmolested by the enemy of God. The Tribulation is not for us, but for the Jew and the unbelieving world.

Tell that to all those in the Middle East and Africa who have suffered so much in the last year!
I DARE you to try to explain to those Christians why they are suffering such tribulation and you will be UNMOLESTED by the enemy of God.
I DARE YOU!

Don't be silly.

 

[3Scoreand10]

Don't be silly.

Don't be silly.
What kind of response is that to those who are being raped and killed simply because they are Christians.
The truth is you would feel foolish if you told them what you have posted on this form about God not allowing you to be molested.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Have you ever set aside what these men teach and studied for your self?
I believe the WORD of GOD.

So, we should throw out the comments of seminarians, who've forgotten as much theology as you're likely to ever know, and listen to what comes from you self proclaimed experts? Sure, you believe the word of God, by your private interpretations. You'd probably also go for brain surgery from your supermarket butcher, right? Would be ridiculous to consult a real surgeon, or a whole blessed team of surgeons.

 

[prodigal]

[FONT=kepler-std !important]James 1:1[/FONT]
This you know, my beloved brethren But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger;

 

[JesusIsAll]

YOU don't get it. I don't fly blind. I have known the Lord a long time and He has taught me from His word the difference (not hard, either) between normal everyday tribulation we are promised, and THE TRIBULATION that Jesus warned about.

Keep studying!! God wants you to not only know the truth, but to be in line with His people who already know it.

What you may not know, PlainWord lives here, is probably only out now, to buy a pork butt. His career is this thread, but, also seeing that he works at home, he comes around and leaves debris all over the place somebody has to pick up after. I come by, here and again, to straighten things up a bit. (I prefer not to endlessly blather on this subject, as people must who try and twist scripture into a pretzel. The word of God speaks for itself.)

Jeremiah 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

John 14:1-3 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Colossians 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

1 Thessalonians 1:8-10 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing. For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Romans 5:8-9 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Luke 21:33-36 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Interesting of Geneva Bible: 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 Let no man deceive you by any means, for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that the man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition, which is an adversary, and exalteth himself against all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he doeth sit as God in the Temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doeth already work; only he which now withholdeth, shall let till he be taken out of the way. And then shall that wicked man be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of his mouth, and shall abolish with the brightness of his coming.

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Revelation 5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Jude 1:14-15 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Revelation 19:11-14)

Genesis 7:13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark.

Genesis 18:32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.

Psalms 27:4-5 One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to enquire in his temple. For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock.

Isaiah 26:19-21 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers [wedding chambers], and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-6 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Luke 17:26-37 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

 

[mwc68]

Islam isn't something I worry about, in the full scheme of things as the word lays it out for us.

I don't take my freedom and the blessing of God for granted, and I also know that as part of the Bride of Christ, my Bridegroom will whisk me away to the wedding as He promised, so that the Bride will remain spotless and unmolested by the enemy of God. The Tribulation is not for us, but for the Jew and the unbelieving world.

God never works two dispensations at the same time. This Church dispensation will end when the Church is removed and the Tribulation dispensation will begin, God reverting back to the time of the Law in order to reach the Jew for their Messiah. You need to not fight against what His word plainly teaches, but allow Him that time to reap a huge harvest among His precious people.

Nancy, please show me where dispensations is in the bible. This smacks of man made doctrine. I have never come across the word dispensation in the bible

 

[3Scoreand10]

So, we should throw out the comments of seminarians, who've forgotten as much theology as you're likely to ever know, and listen to what comes from you self proclaimed experts? Sure, you believe the word of God, by your private interpretations. You'd probably also go for brain surgery from your supermarket butcher, right? Would be ridiculous to consult a real surgeon, or a whole blessed team of surgeons.

The point I was trying to make is we should not believe some one just because he is judged by others to be a scholar.
We should judge what they teach by the Word.
I also have a seminary education, and 50 years of Bible study.
I had some instructors who encouraged us to question and prove what they taught by the Word and others that demended we accept their teaching with out question.
I have read what many of these men teach about the coming tribulation, the coming of Jesus and our gathering together with Him, and they are wrong.
I challenge each and every one on this forum to lay asid what you believe about this, and with an open mind and a prayerful heart study for yourself.
When I did that 50 years ago, I realized that a man I loved and respected very much. who lead me to Christ was wrong.

 

[flob]

the 70th week of Daniel began at the baptism of Jesus when He was declared the Messiah.

Isn't it correct that about 3 1/2 years later He as crucified? So, therefore, according to your odd reading, by 3 1/2 years after He was crucified, the "transgression was closed, sins were ended, propitiation was made for iniquity, the righteousness of the ages was brought in, vision and prophet had been sealed, and the Holy of Holies was anointed?
Why wasn't that all fulfilled when He was crucified? Why wait 3 1/2 years more?
Why refer to the Messiah directly being directly cut-off......and in the same passage label Him "the Holy of Holies"?
The human body corresponds to the outer court of the temple. Not the Holy place (soul) nor the Holy of Holies (human spirit).

It continued as Jesus presented Himself to the Jews.
He made a covenant with the MANY who received Him.

So because Messiah is "the Prince" in Dan 9:25,
therefore the "people of the prince who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary" means disciples destroyed Jerusalem and Israel's temple? Or that Christians Will destroy them? What?
And then, after this, since 25, 26, and 27 are sequential and not "jumping," after Christ's people destroy Jerusalem, Christ makes............His new covenant? Do you see how absurd this interpretation----wherever you got it from-----is?
Contrary to all this, the Lord established His new covenant the evening He was betrayed, and established it when He was crucified (the latter happened already in 9:26a).

In the MIST of the week, those who rejected Him as the Messiah crucified Him and the time was paused until the revealing of the man of sin, at which time the last 1335 days of the 70th week and God's dealing with Israel will be fullfilled.

That is good that you see there is a Pause in the fulfillment of the 70 weeks. That is an improvement over a few others here.
Who, I thought, claimed that all 70 weeks were fulfilled in the 1st century AD.
So, in that case, on this point, there's not "too much" difference between you and I. I see the entire 7 weeks suspended or paused until the end. You see only 3 1/2 years "paused."

Daniel...never speaks of a 7 year peace treaty between the Jews and the Man of Sin.
John in The Revelation nor Jesus NEVER teach of a seven year peace tready between the Man of Sin and anybody.

Although John (naturally, and Paul, and Jesus--Mt 24:15) are Heavily based on Daniel regarding the end times, there's no reason to want or expect Revelation to be a Xerox of Daniel. Just like the 4 Gospels are not Xerox copies of one another, nor would or should they be. Daniel 9:26-27 could not be clearer (since 25, 26, and 27 are sequential, and not a jumbled, ambiguous rambling all about Christ death and life) that Titus, the Roman general, prefigures Antichrist (just like Rome, the entire Beast, does) when he came and destroyed Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70. AFTER Christ's crucifixion in 26a.
And that "desolations" does not signify something positive or Christian. And that, in 27, the Roman Prince----now transferred to the future and the Antichrist because this very same sentence Resumes the Last week---the future Roman Prince Antichrist (also addressed in the rest of Daniel by his other types, such as Alexander the Great and Antiochus Epiphanies) "will make a firm covenant with the many for one week." This is not Christ. This is not the New Covenant. This is not any Christian or Christly covenant. And it says "with the many." It does not specify Israel. Nor Christians. By its terms, whatever else they will be, it will be to last for 7 years. But then Antichrist (not Christ) interrupts the covenant (breaks his promise) by doing certain things. By causing the sacrifice and oblation to cease. Obviously this is and will be the Jewish Temple Worship, as commanded in the OT. He replaces their OT worship with the abomination of the desolator. That is negative. Even more negative than OT temple worship itself! That is not Christ. That is not an idol of Christ. (Which would be horrible too.) This is the match to Mt 24:15. The Lord's warning about Antichrist. This matches Thessalonians about the man of sin, son of perdition, who exalts himself above all that is called God or is an object of worship. This matches Satan! Satan's thought. His goal. His desire and plan and intention concerning mankind. This matches Revelation about the Beast with the false prophet. This matches the rest of Daniel about the "little horn speaking big things" etc, who is eventually destroyed by Christ

 

[JesusIsAll]

I challenge each and every one on this forum to lay asid what you believe about this, and with an open mind and a prayerful heart study for yourself.

How arrogant, as if none of use have done a life of prayerful Bible study and found these truths. As if countless fine, Spirit-filled men of God, with names, have not done prayerful Bible study. You want us to lay things aside for some anonymous forum poster claiming to be a seminarian, hiding behind a user ID, who doesn't write like much like a seminarian?

Tell you what, I've seen ALL the contrary blabbering, from people who don't understand the Bible, seen EVERY bogus argument. I'm not some babe in the woods, wondering what big teeth you have. I have nothing to lay aside, as I can see the truth, in scripture. End of discussion.

 

[3Scoreand10]

Isn't it correct that about 3 1/2 years later He as crucified? So, therefore, according to your odd reading, by 3 1/2 years after He was crucified, the "transgression was closed, sins were ended, propitiation was made for iniquity, the righteousness of the ages was brought in, vision and prophet had been sealed, and the Holy of Holies was anointed?
Why wasn't that all fulfilled when He was crucified? Why wait 3 1/2 years more?
Why refer to the Messiah directly being directly cut-off......and in the same passage label Him "the Holy of Holies"?
The human body corresponds to the outer court of the temple. Not the Holy place (soul) nor the Holy of Holies (human spirit).





So because Messiah is "the Prince" in Dan 9:25,
therefore the "people of the prince who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary" means disciples destroyed Jerusalem and Israel's temple? Or that Christians Will destroy them? What?
And then, after this, since 25, 26, and 27 are sequential and not "jumping," after Christ's people destroy Jerusalem, Christ makes............His new covenant? Do you see how absurd this interpretation----wherever you got it from-----is?
Contrary to all this, the Lord established His new covenant the evening He was betrayed, and established it when He was crucified (the latter happened already in 9:26a).




That is good that you see there is a Pause in the fulfillment of the 70 weeks. That is an improvement over a few others here.
Who, I thought, claimed that all 70 weeks were fulfilled in the 1st century AD.
So, in that case, on this point, there's not "too much" difference between you and I. I see the entire 7 weeks suspended or paused until the end. You see only 3 1/2 years "paused."





Although John (naturally, and Paul, and Jesus--Mt 24:15) are Heavily based on Daniel regarding the end times, there's no reason to want or expect Revelation to be a Xerox of Daniel. Just like the 4 Gospels are not Xerox copies of one another, nor would or should they be. Daniel 9:26-27 could not be clearer (since 25, 26, and 27 are sequential, and not a jumbled, ambiguous rambling all about Christ death and life) that Titus, the Roman general, prefigures Antichrist (just like Rome, the entire Beast, does) when he came and destroyed Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70. AFTER Christ's crucifixion in 26a.
And that "desolations" does not signify something positive or Christian. And that, in 27, the Roman Prince----now transferred to the future and the Antichrist because this very same sentence Resumes the Last week---the future Roman Prince Antichrist (also addressed in the rest of Daniel by his other types, such as Alexander the Great and Antiochus Epiphanies) "will make a firm covenant with the many for one week." This is not Christ. This is not the New Covenant. This is not any Christian or Christly covenant. And it says "with the many." It does not specify Israel. Nor Christians. By its terms, whatever else they will be, it will be to last for 7 years. But then Antichrist (not Christ) interrupts the covenant (breaks his promise) by doing certain things. By causing the sacrifice and oblation to cease. Obviously this is and will be the Jewish Temple Worship, as commanded in the OT. He replaces their OT worship with the abomination of the desolator. That is negative. Even more negative than OT temple worship itself! That is not Christ. That is not an idol of Christ. (Which would be horrible too.) This is the match to Mt 24:15. The Lord's warning about Antichrist. This matches Thessalonians about the man of sin, son of perdition, who exalts himself above all that is called God or is an object of worship. This matches Satan! Satan's thought. His goal. His desire and plan and intention concerning mankind. This matches Revelation about the Beast with the false prophet. This matches the rest of Daniel about the "little horn speaking big things" etc, who is eventually destroyed by Christ

The pronoun He used 3 times in verse 27 refers to the Messiah the Prince of verse 25.
I believe that the time of God's dealing with Israel continued through the ministry of Jesus.
As I have stated, there is no scripture basis for a seven year tready between the Man of Sin and Israel or any one else.
I see no peace before the Man of Sin is revealed and at that time we will have 1290 days until the coming of Jesus at the 7th trump.
The 2 prophets will preach for 1260 days, the Man of Sin will make war with the saints for 1260 days, Israel will be driven into the wilderness for 1260 days.
No 7 years anywhere.