Theories of the Atonement

[cerialis]

Hello All,

I have been reviewing some materials on the different views of the Atonement recently.

Atonement theories describe why Christ died for us on the Cross.

There are four major views of the Atonement:

1. Substitutionary Theory (the central aspect of the atonement)
2. Ransom Theory
3. Christus Victor
4. Moral Influence

Each of these views has some validity and Scriptural support.

A reason to study the atonement theories is to more deeply comprehend why Christ died for us. The atonement is the crux or central aspect of Christianity. Without it, there would be no point to Christianity whatsoever.

Additionally, a lot of erroneous things are taught concerning this doctrine by heretics. Some views even deny that Christ died as our sin offering, which is the central aspect of the atonement.

Instead, they focus only upon the moral influence aspect of the atonement, or perhaps the moral influence aspect plus the ransom aspect. Their error is one of reductionism; they reduce the atonement to one aspect only (and a minor one at that) , and ignore the rest of the aspects of it. Beware of false teachers who convey such error. Many of them are just trying to sell their legalistic, morality-based theologies. Pelagianism, Finneyism, and Moral Government Theology are known for this sort of error or some variation of it.

I found a very good video by Dr. Timothy Roberts at Stuart Congregational Church in Stuart, FL on this topic. I transcribed his notes into a Word document which I am attaching. I added most of the introductory comments and a few other Scriptures and remarks into the Word document. So, I am not representing this as my work, and I take responsibility for anything in the Word document.

Here's a link to the Youtube video by Dr. Roberts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMrzkCby9ko

Here's the link to the audio message and notes on Stuart Congregational Church's website:

Stuart Congregational Church : Online Learning Library - Atonement Theology : Where Faith and Love Are One

I am not a member of Dr. Robert's church nor do I know anything about his soundness when it comes to other topics. Since I have studied atonement theories, I know that his presentation of the materials is reasonable and I think it's a great teaching tool.

I re-ordered the different aspects of the Atonement a bit, as I place the substitutionary theory above the rest of the aspects, and Dr. Roberts seems to favor the Christus Victor theory over it.

If anyone has additional thoughts on the different aspects of the atonement, or elaboration, I'd appreciate hearing about it. I am not an expert on this topic; I am merely studying it. This thread is for sharing and discussion, not simply pontificating.

Regards,

Robert

Hello Robert, yes, I have been teaching now for over fifty years on the Holy Scriptures and naturally the Atonement is right in the forefront.

The fundamental teaching of the 'ransom' is that Christ died for all; including Adam! As in Adam 'all' are dying, so also in the Christ 'all' will be made alive; but each according to his own status. (1 Corinthians 15:22, 23) Christ, the first-fruits, then those who belong to the Christ [anointed little flock]; then those of the heavenly great crowd and lastly those who receive an earthly resurrection and are counted as sheep at the end of the Sabbath Millennium.
So the ‘Key’ scripture is: “Let God be found true, though every man be found a liar.” (Romans 3:4)

An interesting point here is that if Adam and Eve had not disobeyed in Eden, Jesus and his 'littlr flock' [Israel of God] would not exist today; they are an addition to God's original plan for mankind.

Alexander

 

[Willie-T]

Hello Robert, yes, I have been teaching now for over fifty years on the Holy Scriptures and naturally the Atonement is right in the forefront.

The fundamental teaching of the 'ransom' is that Christ died for all; including Adam! As in Adam 'all' are dying, so also in the Christ 'all' will be made alive; but each according to his own status. (1 Corinthians 15:22, 23) Christ, the first-fruits, then those who belong to the Christ [anointed little flock]; then those of the heavenly great crowd and lastly those who receive an earthly resurrection and are counted as sheep at the end of the Sabbath Millennium.
So the ‘Key’ scripture is: “Let God be found true, though every man be found a liar.” (Romans 3:4)

An interesting point here is that if Adam and Eve had not disobeyed in Eden, Jesus and his 'littlr flock' [Israel of God] would not exist today; they are an addition to God's original plan for mankind.Alexander

Could you explain that part a little more? I vaguely remember reading everything that has happened as "being in place before the foundation of the Earth."

 

[SolidGround]

Willie and Russel,
The issue with your Eastern Orthodox style view of salvation and atonement is that:
1. It makes the sacrifice and work of Christ impersonal.
2. It leaves man to bring himself to God.
3. It puts the obtaining and maintaining of eternal salvation in the hands of the individual.
4. It does not allow for any security in our individual salvation, or any assurance of our individual salvation.
5. It neglects the power of the Blood upon the individual, for the sake of global application.

Basically, the phrase "of the world" is a phrase, not a literal statement. It means "of all peoples". It speaks of the nations, not of every individual within the nations.

The salvation of Christ is personal, but not of the person.
It is God reaching out to individuals.
It is not a new found ability of individuals to reach out to God.

 

[SolidGround]

If atonement did what the Eastern Orthodox Church says it did, then the earth would be a better place NOW. But it's not.
It's gotten much worse.
The curse is broken for those who are effected by the work of Christ, who are the elect.
The curse is strengthened upon those who are unaffected by the work of Christ, as Christ is also the "Stumbling Block".

 

[tribesman]

...The fundamental teaching of the 'ransom' is that Christ died for all; including Adam! As in Adam 'all' are dying, so also in the Christ 'all' will be made alive; but each according to his own status. (1 Corinthians 15:22, 23) Christ, the first-fruits, then those who belong to the Christ [anointed little flock]; then those of the heavenly great crowd and lastly those who receive an earthly resurrection and are counted as sheep at the end of the Sabbath Millennium...So the ‘Key’ scripture is: “Let God be found true, though every man be found a liar.” (Romans 3:4)

The all who are made alive in Christ are IN Christ. There is no atonement to be benefited from unless one is IN Christ. There is no promise of salvation and eternal life for those who are not IN Christ.

 

[PeterJens]

OK! Good point!
If we take the argument of the Pharisees that only God can forgive sins we have a problem because not only is Jesus forgiving sins but so are His disciples. If sins are only forgiven at the cross we still have a problem because all this is happening before the cross.

Forgiveness of sins. What was the cross? Was it an equation of guilt verses payment, like a bill awaiting to be met or was it a statement of spiritual and emotional reality which has always been true throughout time, that we can gain forgiveness if we accept Gods nature working in our hearts, communed by the Holy Spirit.

Adams fall was to stand alone and gain knowledge of good and evil and choose based only on himself. This meant inevitably he would sin, and would become a self justifying person, getting worse and worse until he died.

Gods response is to say, by communing, trusting, believing God will forgive you, and by letting His love remake you, you can walk in perfection, in obedience, in life. The cross is the demonstration of how far that love will go, how much we can trust the Lord, how reliable and humble the Lord is, not a tyrant, or driving task master, but the one who knows the right way to approach things. The only answer to the problem of sin is this open honest communion.

In this model, the cross is the painting of this reality as big as you can get, the most extreme. God humbled himself to be tortured and killed by man, to say, I will bear your sins and not hold you guilty of them, if you will commune with me, and learn love from me. It is paying the price, not in intent but in reality, but the reality was always there, from eternity to eternity, it is who he is.

But this love and heart cannot be forced, else it is no longer life. If it is forced, then the communion gets broken, and sin comes in again. It is very fragile, an immortal being talking to a sinner, prone to wonder off and hurt themselves, so very very easily, just look at any child and you see our nature.

So forgiving sins today or any day is possible, because the fragile communion is what matters, and that brings perfection and life, which without it, sin and death come in. The goal of salvation is curing the alone sinner of his isolation by bringing in love and communion. The witness of this reality has taken place is the loving community God brings about.

Anything that detracts from this reality, is not of God.

Why do we have to believe on Jesus to be saved? Because Gods nature has not changed, Jesus is the ultimate representation of who God is, and where his heart is. To deny Jesus is to deny God and his intention, His communion, and shut out the answer to sin in everybody. Jesus is not just a man, or the Lord, He is the eternal statement of where we are and what our problem really is. The whole of the old testament shadows this reality, hints at its points, but Jesus is the full disclosure of all the combining features. God talking to man, face to face, sharing His heart, his ideas and thoughts.
God talking to sinners, washing their feet, being a servant, beyond our comprehension.

 

[PeterJens]

The atoning sacrifice

The only way God could declare his intention, without dispute was to walk the earth, take the punishment and die.
Else Satan would say it was all words, a con trick, a dreamer God who claims so much but delivers so very little.

So many use the phrase "put your money where you mouth is"

The muslims argue God could just forgive the sinner. Now this is true, but sin would continue.
The righteous man says, I am good enough, but God says, you will fall because you do not know me.

There are many ways to God, says the religious. No, there is only one communion and one symbol that represents this, the cross. Without this understanding of who you are and who God is, nothing will save you.

The only way to show this single reality was Israel and the sacrifice for sins in the temple, the Holy God who could not be approached except through special priest hood. The problem is to show though there is only one door, and once found it is easy to walk through, it is very hard to find, because we are so lost and alone.

Have I got it right? It fits for me, but you have to discover the reality for yourselves, because individually we are alone, and together in communion with the Lord, we are one people.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Maybe this will help you to see the distinctions made.
First.... talking about sinners (not His audience)
Second..... Speaking to and about the disciples.
Third..... Reminding them of satan's future.

I think you missed His central point, which is that the Holy Spirit comes to convict. Convict of what? First sin, then righteousness, then judgment. Before we understand righteousness -- and we only understand righteousness from the view that we have none of our own but have only Christ's righteousness imputed to us -- or our assurance of security in Christ, we have to get past sin.

To get past sin, we have to be convicted of it. Once convicted -- that we are sinners, that we are condemned by sin -- we believe we need a Savior. Now we deal with righteousness, which comes as a result of that imputation, and living for Christ because of our mutual love. Now we see the judgment the rest of the world faces, and we take the Gospel message to them.

We don't even know we need to believe until we know we are hopeless sinners. Yes, the Holy Spirit convicts us of our unbelief, but only after He has convicted us of the sin that demands belief in Christ's atoning sacrifice and resurrection to grant us eternal life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sin is not being in concert with God's will. We sin for numerous reasons and not all spiritual. Paul says the body wars against the spirit. The flesh is driven by many things. Hormones cause women to PMS and that doesn't stand for premeditated sin. Hormones in men cause them to be aggressive and sexual. Hunger will drive people to kill. It sounds simple to explain things away as all spiritual, but its not the case.
Original sin is in reality the ability to make your own mind up about what you are going to do. In other words, God says this and I'm going to do that.
>>>>look at a woman with lust, you have commited adultry, even though you did not do the act in the flesh. Yet both are just as evil in his sight. <<<<
Yet they can be forgiven by other men. How does that work?
(John 20:22 -23[Mace])
and when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "receive ye the holy spirit. whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye leave unpardoned, they are lest unpardoned."
(John 20:23 [CPDV])
Those whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them, and those whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.”

(Jas 5:14 -16[Mace])
Is any of you sick? let him send for the pastors of the church, to pray for him, and after giving him the unction, in the name of the Lord, the prayer that proceeds from faith, shall save the sick; the Lord will raise him up, and his sins that may have been the occasion, shall be forgiven. confess then to one another the offences you have committed, and pray for one another, that you may be healed; the fervent prayer of a virtuous man has great influence.

.

please tell me your not one of them that goes to give medical excuses to sin. People have PMS all the time, and sexual desire all the time, yet do not kill. that is nonsense.

Only God can forgive sin, Jesus made this clear. He was not telling them they could forgive sin, He was telling them they had the ability to give the life saving word of God which could heal them or they could keep it from them (walk away and wipe the dust off your feet kinda thing)

Sin is putting self over God and others. plain and simple. All sin comes from pride. and self centered attitude. That is the root of ANY sin you will ever find.

 

[Raok]

How is making someone walk again forgiveness of their sin? You are implying that healing cannot take place unless sin be forgiven?

 

[Willie-T]

How is making someone walk again forgiveness of their sin? You are implying that healing cannot take place unless sin be forgiven?

I dunno, but Jesus pretty clearly said they were one and the same.

 

[RussellJBenigno]

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull

If God only dies for a selct few. and rejects others without even giving them a chance, based on ONLY his own determination. then satan lie stands.

Tribesman: Chance? The atonement is not about giving anybody any "chance", it is all about redeeming God's possession, His people. Why some before others? Noone on earth will ever have an answer to that. All we should do is get into the Bible and believe its record.

I'm going with ET on this one. It's about FREE WILL or being predestined to eternal damnation if FREE WILL does not exist. This is the "chance" being spoken of in my opinion. I will never believe that God, FROM THE BEGINNING, chose some for eternal life and condemned others to eternal damnation.

The problem is that the record is distorted if looked at through the lens of systematic theologies.
At one point I followed the systematic theologies and all they did was cause more confusion. The systematic theologies clashed with the scripture and I was torn. Finally I threw the commentaries away. It was only when I went directly to the record that things made sense. All the confusion lifted and the things which puzzled me for years began to be answered.

The first thing I read; in my search for the Truth; threw me for a loop because it defied all I was taught about the atonement. What John said did not line up with the gospel I was taught.
(John 1:29 [CPDV])
On the next day, John saw Jesus coming toward him, and so he said: “Behold, the Lamb of God. Behold, he who takes away the sin of the world".

The prophet is telling a lie or the truth. The verse stands as is without adding anything to it.
This is the record!

 

[SolidGround]

The problem is that the record is distorted if looked at through the lens of systematic theologies.
At one point I followed the systematic theologies and all they did was cause more confusion. The systematic theologies clashed with the scripture and I was torn. Finally I threw the commentaries away. It was only when I went directly to the record that things made sense. All the confusion lifted and the things which puzzled me for years began to be answered.

The first thing I read; in my search for the Truth; threw me for a loop because it defied all I was taught about the atonement. What John said did not line up with the gospel I was taught.
(John 1:29 [CPDV])
On the next day, John saw Jesus coming toward him, and so he said: “Behold, the Lamb of God. Behold, he who takes away the sin of the world".

The prophet is telling a lie or the truth. The verse stands as is without adding anything to it.
This is the record!

It is Truth.
The issue is that you are not understanding "the world". You are placing a definition upon the phrase, parsing it as all-inclusive. If you read Romans, Corintians, Galatians, 1st Peter, 1st John, the Gospel of John, or Ephesians, you will be confronted with a much different Gospel than the one you are claiming.

I also disagree with most of the "systematic" theologies, but that is no reason to convert to Eastern Orthodoxy.

In all honesty, I prefer your view of atonement over the dispensationalist view... but both are simply too limited in scope!!! Your view says exactly "what happened", and their view says the "how", but neither view has a grasp on the "why", even though they both pretend to.

Grace is not all-inclusive, just as faith is not given equally to all. Atonement is not ever wasted! It is always effectual.

 

[RussellJBenigno]

It is Truth.
The issue is that you are not understanding "the world". You are placing a definition upon the phrase, parsing it as all-inclusive.

G2889 (Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries)
G2889 κόσμος kosmos (kos'-mos) n.
1. orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration
2. (by implication) the world including its inhabitants
It is "all inclusive".
I understand where you are deriving your meaning, but this is what is happening.
Systematic theologies approach scripture through preconception.
They formulate what they want to find and then make it happen. But! In order to make it happen they need to change the meaning of words to match their preconceived ideas. Now how does this work? They say the gospel preached in the epistles is the correct gospel because the Gospel Jesus preached was before the cross and therefore not for today. Thus they interpret what Jesus taught through the preconceived notions.
I have taken the opposite route. I don't approach it from a preconceived concept. If it says it I believe it. I then interpret the epistles from the teachings of Jesus. Jesus is the Word to me and I won't defy His teachings. When I took this route things in scripture became more clear. The epistles seen through the teachings of Jesus say the same thing and I don't need to bend nor distort anything by adding or subtracting, which is what systematic theologies do to arrive at conclusions. Many scholars will tell you that Paul preached another gospel other than Jesus' Gospel and I believed that for years. That is until I put Jesus first and then I saw one Gospel.

If you read Romans, Corintians, Galatians, 1st Peter, 1st John, the Gospel of John, or Ephesians, you will be confronted with a much different Gospel than the one you are claiming.

Not when the definitions of Jesus Gospel is applied. And I truly do understand why you say what you are saying. I was taught all that at a fundamentalist bible college and believed it also.

I also disagree with most of the "systematic" theologies, but that is no reason to convert to Eastern Orthodoxy.

I say this just for you to understand where I'm coming from.
I don't follow any systematic theologies even though I was taught them. I don't follow any particular teacher or commentary. I threw away all my commentaries. I decided that the only teacher I was going to follow was Jesus and use Him to define everything else. And let me tell you I had to give up a lot of teachings I held dear because Jesus didn't teach them. Believe me when I say I had no desire to reject anything I was taught. I did not set out to prove or disprove anything. I just read it as it was and believed it.

In all honesty, I prefer your view of atonement over the dispensationalist view... but both are simply too limited in scope!!! Your view says exactly "what happened", and their view says the "how", but neither view has a grasp on the "why", even though they both pretend to.

I was taught dispensationalism and I don't entertain it, not because I don't believe it. If Jesus don't teach it then I haved no need for it. And your right about the how and why. I don't understand it, I just know what I see. If I don't understand it I will admit it, because I strive to be intellectually honest.

Grace is not all-inclusive, just as faith is not given equally to all. Atonement is not ever wasted! It is always effectual.

Grace means favor and the favor is not wasted, the favor is a free gift and inclusive of all. Sorry but I have to agree with Jesus and Paul supports what Jesus taught.
(John 12:32 [WPNT])
While I, if I be lifted up from the earth I will draw "ALL" people to myself.”
(Rom 5:18-19 [GOGIC])
It only follows then, it was through one man's alienating action that this sentence found "everyone" to be legitimately guilty; however, it was through the definitive decree of one man's act of obedience that the free gift was made available, positively producing justification to Godlife into "everyone", everywhere. It's really quite simple, if one man's alienating action caused "everyone" to become sinners, then only through one man's action of obedience could creatively cause "everyone" to be made really righteous.
(Rom 5:18-19 [20cNT])
Briefly then, just as a single offence resulted for "ALL" mankind in condemnation, so, too, a single decree of righteousness resulted for "ALL" mankind in that declaration of righteousness which brings Life. For, as through the disobedience of the one man the "Whole" race was rendered sinful, so, too, through the obedience of the one, the "Whole" race will be rendered righteous.
(John 1:9 [20cNT])
That was the True Light which enlightens "EVERY" man coming into the world.
Now before you jump to the conclusion I'm speaking of universal salvation that's not the case.

 

[RussellJBenigno]

It is Truth.
The issue is that you are not understanding "the world". You are placing a definition upon the phrase, parsing it as all-inclusive. If you read Romans, Corintians, Galatians, 1st Peter, 1st John, the Gospel of John, or Ephesians, you will be confronted with a much different Gospel than the one you are claiming.

I also disagree with most of the "systematic" theologies, but that is no reason to convert to Eastern Orthodoxy.

In all honesty, I prefer your view of atonement over the dispensationalist view... but both are simply too limited in scope!!! Your view says exactly "what happened", and their view says the "how", but neither view has a grasp on the "why", even though they both pretend to.

Grace is not all-inclusive, just as faith is not given equally to all. Atonement is not ever wasted! It is always effectual.

I am here to prove to myself that what I see is scriptural is from God. I need to know my revelation is in accord with God and not something I have made up. I'm not here to convince anyone what to believe. Atonement is an area I don't understand and by brain storming with others, things become clear to me. So when people push on my revelation the question is will it stand.

 

[PeterJens]

We so often fear so basic realities about following Jesus.

1. He was a man
2. He had friendships with ordinary, straight forward people like you and me
3. He said so very stunning things, he did things that no-one since has done, and he set a high moral teaching we have trouble understanding let alone follow.

Two things I draw from this. We are closer to what God is like, ie have the potential to be touched by God and to be listened to, and we are more lost at a simple level than we are prepared to accept.

When you wake up every morning are you sad or happy, optimistic or over burdened by life? Do you know why?
Most of our lives are governed by processes we use but do not understand, they are just learnt.

We love to be definative, rather than children discovering. Jesus did not answer the questions, he sowed the seeds and expected fruit. He believed in the love he gave us that it would drive us to find answers and build a body that worked.

The kingdom is about exploring, about being with others, communion, sharing, feeling the pains and the hurts, walking alongside, being a servant.

Atonement has to empower this reality, or we have not found atonement in ourselves at all.

 

[RussellJBenigno]

Only God can forgive sin, Jesus made this clear

Wow! No! The Pharisees made it clear that, that was what they believed. Are you using the same argument the Pharisees used against Jesus? Are you speaking out against what Jesus taught and twisting His words to support what "You Believe"? That's not a good place to be. I find it strange that people call themselves christian and defy Jesus.

He was telling them they had the ability to give the life saving word of God

No where in those verses is anything like that portrayed or even insinuated by Jesus. Only intentionally distorting the Words out of the mouth of God can anyone arrive at such a conclusions.
(John 20:23 [Anderson])
Whosever sins you forgive, they are forgiven them: whosever sins you retain, they are retained.
Done, period!
G863 ἀφίημι aphiemi (af-ee'-ay-mee) v.
1. to send forth
{in various applications (as follow)}
[from G575 and hiemi "to send" (an intensive form of eimi "to go")]

G2902 κρατέω krateo (krat-eh'-o) v.
1. to use strength, i.e. seize or retain
{literally or figuratively}
[from G2904]
KJV: hold (by, fast), keep, lay hand (hold) on, obtain, retain, take (by) What Jesus said is clear and I believe Him. Are you changing His words, words of God [Bad move]? If you disagree with Jesus just say so, but don't change His words to support your belief system. Modern christianity is full of vain imaginations which war against Jesus the Christ and the Word of God which proceeded out of His mouth. I beleve every word He spoke without changing them and call upon others to do the same.

 

[Willie-T]

I think you will find that in the sentiment, "Only God can forgive sin", Jesus is plainly letting the cat out of the bag..... He would be explaining who He was.

 

[cerialis]

Could you explain that part a little more? I vaguely remember reading everything that has happened as "being in place before the foundation of the Earth."

Hello Willie-T, thank your for your reply.

Yes, when Adam and Eve were created, God's Law of obedience was put in place; so here we had a perfect pair of humans on the earth with the opportunity of acquiring everlasting life on the earth under paradisaical conditions for them selves and the unborn human race at that time.

Those of us who have of course read and studied the Bible are already aware of what then transpired with the Covering Cherub Lucifer [Satan] who decided to become like God and therefore have the human race serving him. So in his temptation of Eve, this resulted in Adam following suit thinking that he was to lose the most precious thing in his life.

If he had been a little more mature and made supplication for her to God, all would be different today. Also, if the Covering Cherub had kept his place of humility, the human race would have prospered and again all would be different today as originally intended. Now the only reason Christ Jesus and his anointed little flock came on the scene was becase Almighty God realizing that the instigator was Satan and not Adam, so he brought into being one who by his sacrifice at the appointed time;would liberate all mankind from Adamic death [death without a resurrection] and open the way to a resurrection for all mankind with the opportunity of gaining everlasting life on the earth as originally intended.

The point which you vaguely remember is actually the scriptures which speak of those of the anointed who were chosen before the foundation of the world.

If we look at Ephesians 1:1, "To the saints at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus;" verse 4 confirms that these are the ones who receive heavenly immortality as the ‘Israel of God’ chosen ‘before’ the founding of the world and addition to his original plan.

Now the group referred to as being ‘from’ the founding of the world and chosen as ‘sheep’ on his right, are those of mankind who inherit everlasting life on earth (Matthew 15:46) during the end of the Sabbath Millennium. (Matthew 25:34)
So those chosen 'before' the founding of the world [birth of Cain] are the composite body of the Christ who will rule in the heavens during their thousand year reign with Christ. (Revelation 20:6)

I hope this helps to clarify.

Alexander

 

[Willie-T]

Thank you. That clarified a lot.