Are you aware some of us don't believe in End Times philosophy?

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atwhatcost

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Honest. It's true.

I do believe in End Times, but we've been in it for close to 2000 years.

I do believe in the great tribulation, but as a past event. It happened in the first couple of centuries of Christianity. There is still tribulation going on today, but it's not as big a scale as that one.

I also don't believe in "the rapture." The word means "caught up," and it was used four times in the NT. Two of those times, apostles were "caught up" to heaven by God for a humongous vision.

So, yeah. I really do get the folks who believe in these things really do believe in them. I'm a bit worried that that is the only thing they have to go on with Christianity, instead of actually studying the whole Bible and learning about God to grow in him, but, sure, some churches believe in both, so that's cool.

I do know most of the thinking behind those other choices, so I'm not asking you to teach me your theories. It's not a big issue to me most of the time.

The only reason I bring this up is because so many start with something like, "As we all believe we are close to Christ coming back," and honestly? Not really "we all believe." He might return in an hour. He might return in 10,000 years. Either way, it's still the End Time, because that's the End we all wait for.

That's it. Just wanted to tell you we all don't believe that, just so you know we really don't all believe that. No big deal. Figured I'd save time in not having to tell that to those who say it.

Worse comes to worse, just take it like you found out someone in your own political party doesn't like one part of the political platform, but is still a party member. It happens. It's possible.

I now send you back to your regular-scheduled broadcast. :D
 
Matters little what you think. God will be true and every man a liar by comparison.

Given the description of the great tribulation it is not possible that it is a past event. Preterism seems quite silly to me. There is a lot of really big stuff yet to come to pass. Billions of people dying and stars falling from the heavens will be quite noteworthy.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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atwhatcost said:
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I do believe in the great tribulation, but as a past event. It happened in the first couple of centuries of Christianity. There is still tribulation going on today, but it's not as big a scale as that one.

I also don't believe in "the rapture." The word means "caught up," and it was used four times in the NT. Two of those times, apostles were "caught up" to heaven by God for a humongous vision.
<snip>
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The tribulation that man endures now is tribulation - man against man. The GREAT tribulation is God's tribulation upon man.

I do believe in the "gathering together" of the church, the body of Christ and I do look forward to it as it is our hope.

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ!!!!!!
 
notuptome said:
Matters little what you think. God will be true and every man a liar by comparison.

Given the description of the great tribulation it is not possible that it is a past event. Preterism seems quite silly to me. There is a lot of really big stuff yet to come to pass. Billions of people dying and stars falling from the heavens will be quite noteworthy.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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'

Amen and God turning the world upside down and making a man (singular) more precious than fine gold....not to mention the sun and moon not giving their light.......and the heavens being ripped open to reveal the face of the one who sits on the throne to only have the majority of people hide in the dens and caves of the earth while praying for the rocks to fall on them and hide them from said face......
 
I do agree with some of the others that have responded so far to a point.......

As the descriptions given for the Great Tribulation period can not be a past fulfilled event, because for example one of the descriptions says it will be the worse time ever and will not be a time worse then it. We have already had many worse events since 70 AD, and WW2 and the Holocaust does not fit either.

Revelation clearly shows us that the Lord returns at the very end of the GT and casts the man of sin and false prophet into the lake of fire. The Lord has not returned yet, and nowhere does it say there is a big gap between the end of the GT and His return.

The parts that I differ though is that the GT is not God's wrath/tribulation on man.
The GT is when the man of sin is persecuting and killing Jews and Christians, and God's wrath is then poured out at the end of the GT on the man of sin and false prophet and those who follow them.

The bible does clearly speak of a gathering together of believers with the Lord, however Apostle Paul tells us the falling away (church apostasy) and the man of sin being revealed has to come first. The apostasy is happening, but the man of sin has not been revealed yet. The bible gives us where to look at for him to arise from (Turkey: Revelation 2:13,13:2), and that everybody will know for sure when he stands in the temple and claims to be God.

No temple built yet, therefore this prophecy can not be fulfilled, and it was not done in 70 AD either..................
 
Thats just a silly thought.

world war 1 and 2 both made the tribulation you spoke of look like a walk in the park on a rainy day (yes bad , but not awe-full) so there is NO WAY possible the great tribulation. which Jesus said would not be surpassed before, or after till the end of time, occured in the first century.

Yes we are in the last day, been in them since Jesus left. But we have just begun to see the birth pangs..
 
From my experience this is the predominate thinking in today's Christianity. Lots of different "shades" of it. But basically the same.

To believe the rapture, the Great tribulation and the 1000 year reign is the minority anymore.
 
Gr8grace said:
From my experience this is the predominate thinking in today's Christianity. Lots of different "shades" of it. But basically the same.

To believe the rapture, the Great tribulation and the 1000 year reign is the minority anymore.
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I think it has always been the minority, most of the catholic/reformed churches are preterists. and deny the end kingdom where Christ literally rules from earth.
 
eternally-gratefull said:

I think it has always been the minority, most of the catholic/reformed churches are preterists. and deny the end kingdom where Christ literally rules from earth.
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If you're counting that Roman Catholic Church, that would make it the majority view. Not that it really matters; this isn't a democratic process where one's "correctness" is determined by what the majority think.
 
I thought you guys actually "read" the Bible. (Well, some of you) Where do you keep coming up with repeating that manmade invention of "THE GREAT TRIBULATION" as though it is a specific event? It's not in the Bible. All we were told is that there was going to be a few years of really bad trouble.
 
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atwhatcost said:
Worse comes to worse, just take it like you found out someone in your own political party doesn't like one part of the political platform, but is still a party member. It happens. It's possible.
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Given that attitude, I wonder why you felt the need to tell us in the first place. I think you're completely off-base with your second-century "tribulation" theory, but I'm not going to let that bother me or let it come between our fellowship.

It's about Christ, and Him crucified.

atwhatcost said:
I now send you back to your regular-scheduled broadcast. :D
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You're kinda like the weather guys interrupting my "program" to tell me about hail 150 miles from me. When it gets here, I'll worry. Until then, leave me alone. Run a crawl on my screen.

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JimmieD said:
If you're counting that Roman Catholic Church, that would make it the majority view. Not that it really matters; this isn't a democratic process where one's "correctness" is determined by what the majority think.
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yep. she is the author of preterism. Alot of the reformers took this belief with them.
 
Willie-T said:
I thought you guys actually "read" the Bible. (Well, some of you) Where do you keep coming up with repeating that manmade invention of "THE GREAT TRIBULATION" as though it is a specific event? It's not in the Bible. All we were told is that there was going to be a few years of really bad trouble.
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so when jesus said there will be great tribulation. such as never seen before or ever, and that if he did not return to put a stop to it. all flesh would die. this is not an event?
 
Willie-T said:
I thought you guys actually "read" the Bible. (Well, some of you) Where do you keep coming up with repeating that manmade invention of "THE GREAT TRIBULATION" as though it is a specific event? It's not in the Bible. All we were told is that there was going to be a few years of really bad trouble.
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A little brushing up in your old testament would reveal this 'man made' invention as you call it. It really is a Jewish thang so you probably have little clue.
 
crossnote said:
A little brushing up in your old testament would reveal this 'man made' invention as you call it. It really is a Jewish thang so you probably have little clue.
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I guess calling it the time of Jacob's trouble would be useless. is that what your saying? lol
 
crossnote said:
plus dozens of passages from the Prophets.

But I guess they don't count since they have been replaced by brighter lights...NOT :)
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true,

But I would not call the church a brighter light, if we actually look at the history of the church, and history of Israel. They almost look identical. The names, terms and laws may have changed, the ceremony and ritual may have changed, But the excuses, the deception, The misinformation. The adding laws which are not given by God and making them equal with scripture. The severe hatred of anyone not of them. The short amount of time in which it was perverted to be unrecognizable of what God intended etc etc. All look the same.

Israel could not get it with the priesthood. The church (gentile) could not get it with the preists and bishops and whatever. Time for Christ to come down and show both alike how he intended it to be. Oh what a glorious day that will be.

But like Isreal and there rejection of Christs first advent, because they had it all together. the church thiks it has it all together so reject his second advent.
 
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