G
Gr8grace
Guest
And it is our true enemy. God took care of sin on the Cross. But not evil.
The man of sin (2 Tess 2:1-4)
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And it is our true enemy. God took care of sin on the Cross. But not evil.
This is no surprise coming from the guy who called Cain good. I guess righteousness is evil to you then? hahahah!
And yes I understand, I understand that you do not understand the words of God.
True but this causes me to wonder how this must weary the Lord. God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. God stretches His hand out to a gainsaying and stiff necked people.
Ever learning and never coming to the knowledge of the truth. Professing themselves to be wise they became as fools.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
G
Gr8grace
Guest
This is no surprise coming from the guy who called Cain good. I guess righteousness is evil to you then? hahahah!
And yes I understand, I understand that you do not understand the words of God.
So you don't understand?
Your a liar for saying John said he was actively sinning. Show me where John said that? You cannot because it is a lie!
Here is what exposes your lies about John....
1 John 3:6-10[SUP]6 [/SUP]Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."
If John was actively sinning and in sin as you suggest, and at the time he wrote those words, this would imply John was of the Devil. (whosoever sins is of the Devil)
Also to say John was in sin and actively sinning would also imply that John was not born of God. (whosoever is born of God sins not)
And how could John be "in Christ" and also "in sin" as you suggest? (whosoever abide in Him (Christ) sins not)
Your doctrine is full lies and deception, twisting the words of John in order to make yourself feel better about your own sinful ways.
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
The bible speaks of two standards of the antichrist;
It speaks of the spirit of the antichrist that has been in the world working through people............
The bible also speaks of an actual end times person who will be the final antichrist figure, as the bible from the OT to the NT give him a number of different titles; Such as man of sin, son of perdition, prince of this world, beast, and so on.......
To try and take the actual last figure into a system and not a man would be to throw away all the prophetic writings in the bible away such as Revelation, and Daniel 9:26-27.....................
There will be a system that follows this man of sin, but is not what is being spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2............
It speaks of the spirit of the antichrist that has been in the world working through people............
The bible also speaks of an actual end times person who will be the final antichrist figure, as the bible from the OT to the NT give him a number of different titles; Such as man of sin, son of perdition, prince of this world, beast, and so on.......
To try and take the actual last figure into a system and not a man would be to throw away all the prophetic writings in the bible away such as Revelation, and Daniel 9:26-27.....................
There will be a system that follows this man of sin, but is not what is being spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2............
Oh I understand perfectly. You and your bro EG there call good evil, and evil good.
Isaiah 5:20
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
There is no mention of a single individual man called Antichrist that is yet to come in the future found in the scriptures. All scriptures confirm antichrist is a spirit that works in many deceivers...aka many false prophets, and has come as prophesied.
People need to quit listening to tv evangelists, youtube videos, and doctrines of men. Seek understanding from the Master alone by way of His Spirit of Truth.
G
Gr8grace
Guest
Thank you, I consider that to be a compliment.
Now I KNOW you don't understand.
D
DesiredHaven
Guest
Romans 15:13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
Romans 15:14 And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.
Even as it is the fruit of the Spirit
Ephes 5:9(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth)
Just as he that doeth good is of God
3 John 1:11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good.
He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.
Just as he that doeth righteousness is born of Him
1 John 2:29If ye know that he is righteous,
ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
John says, do not let any man deceived you on in this
1 John 3:7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous,
even as he is righteous.
The children of God are manifest (as are the other)
1 John 3:10 ((In this )) the children of God (( are manifest ))
(( and )) the children of the devil:
whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God,
neither he that loveth not his brother.
The fruit of the Spirit (being the fruit of the Vine) Christ Jesus (by whom) are our fruits (John 15:4 & Phl 1:11) which are named, and are goodness righteousness and truth (in Ephes 5:9, Gal 5:22) and therein is the Father glorified John 15:8
It says the fruit of the Spirit is goodness, righteoussness and truth (and being filled is with the same Phil 1:11) and manifested (as shown 1 John 3:10 ) showing the outworking in the area of doing all the same) as it is He works within us to both will and do good, work righteousnessare and truth as is shown time and agin.
Not in word and tongue but in deed and in truth (who doeth the truth, see John 3:21)
1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
1 John 3:19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
There we have,
Ephes 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth)
Paul persuaded they were full of all such goodness by the same Romans 15:14 and that the communication of your faith would become effectual in acknowledging of every good thing in us by Christ in Phm 1:6
As its by Jesus Christ (the Vine) you are the Branches of (which should bear the same fruit as he who is righteouss) because that is by the Spirit (even unto the glory of God).
Phil 1:11 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;
Phil 1:11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.
John 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
The falling away of 2nd Thessolonians has already occurred, in fact it occurred over 1600 years ago and the church system today is built on a foundation of error. It is for this reason that the churches are full of sin. The gospel message being preached today is in error.
Jesus warned that this would happen in Matthew 7, Paul warned about it in Acts 20, Peter warned in 2Peter 3 about the error of the wicked. The end of the commandment is love, charity and a pure heart (1Tim 1:15) yet the modern church system teaches that you will always be the Romans wretch, the chief of all sinners, and that if you say you have no sin (ie. engaging presently in wickedness) you are a liar. The modern gospel is a sin gospel from beginning to end.
Don't be deceived. Most will be!
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
Falling Away - G646 -apostasia
Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), (“apostasy”): - falling away, forsake.
Let no MAN deceive you - G5100 - tis
An enclitic indefinite pronoun; some or any person or object: - a (kind of), any (man, thing, thing at all), certain (thing), divers, he (every) man, one (X thing), ought, + partly, some (man, -body, -thing, -what), (+ that no-) thing, what (-soever), X wherewith, whom [-soever], whose ([-soever]).
MAN of sin - G444 - anthrōpos
From G435 and ὤψ ōps (the countenance; from G3700); manfaced, that is, a human being: - certain, man.
Anthropos in Thayer's Lexicon (online)
anthropos - Online Bible Study Tools
Extended Defintion
FileSwap.com : anthropos.pdf download free
Bauer's Greek Lexicon
FileSwap.com : Bauers-Greek-Lexicon.pdf download free
Anthropos Word Study
Open Letter
Way - G3319 - mesos
From G3326; middle (as adjective or [neuter] noun): - among, X before them, between, + forth, mid [-day, -night], midst, way.
The man of sin is "mankind" not an individual. If Paul was speaking of an individual he would have used the word Tis not Anthropos. We are the temple and the man of sin is the body of individuals who sit in their own temple under the sway of the mystery of iniquity (lawlessness) as their own gods (never having submitted to Christ) having fallen away from the true faith which is the doctrine according to godliness.
The mystery of iniquity was already at work back then but was being withheld by sound teaching, ie. the Spirit of truth. Today the Spirit of truth has been removed completely from the midst of the church system. The "Wicked" has been revealed which simply means all lawlessness pervades the system.
This is why they teach you can be cleansed by the blood WITHOUT having to be walking in the light as He is in the light (1Joh 1:7). That one scripture alone should bother anyone who wants to know the truth and yet believes "confess, trust and receive" is the Gospel. If not then just keep ignoring it.
The modern gospel is presented as a package and all one has to do is "confess, trust and receive" to be saved. It is a deadly lie, it throws all the things that Jesus taught about denying yourself, striving, picking up our cross, keeping his commandments, digging deep, not turning back etc. right out the window. It is a message that tickles the ears and is easy to accept and many of those who buy into it will condemn the real truth which is the doctrine according to godliness (1Tim 6:3), ie. we WALK as He walked.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
God sends strong delusion that envelopes the mind. He sends it on those who reject the truth so that they could have pleasure in their unrighteousness. These people refused to depart from iniquity. They were workers of iniquity and Jesus Christ never knew them.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Read John 3 about the condemnation. The condemnation is rejection of the light. Don't do it, there are severe warnings about God giving you up if you reject the light. The light revealed will go dark and you will be unable to repent. Many will be shocked at the judgment just like Jesus said. When you are deceived you do not know it.
The number of the beast in Revelation 13:18 is the number of MAN which is anthropos which denotes mankind. It is the mark of the flesh, it is walking according to the flesh as opposed to walking according to the Spirit.
You must have the mark of God which is...
Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Deu 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Deu 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Deu 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
Not the mark of the beast.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Forehead is "Metapon" and it means "with an eye." It represents the "minds eye" and that word is only used the one time in Revelation where it is associated with the Mark of the Beast.
The false church system is dispensing the mark of the beast through a multitude of false teachers. Their message is a message of the flesh, they teach you people they can keep sinning and not surely die so long as they have "received Jesus." What they have in fact received is the mark, the mark of the flesh. They have NEVER crucified their old man in repentance with its passions and desires and thus still walk as a beast (Gal 5:24, Rom 6:6-7).
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Everyone is worshipping the creature and not the Creator, those within the false church system and those without. The false teachers assure this because they stand at the door misdirecting anyone from the truth (Joh 10:10).
Their are many lying signs and wonders in the church system, false manifestation of the Holy Spirit (fire coming down from heaven) and many are deceived. There is a a false Jesus, an image, and a multitude have bowed down before it (Rom 1:23). If you don't worship this image then you are not allowed to buy and sell within the church system and you will be told you are lost and dead in your sins.
Jesus warned that this would happen in Matthew 7, Paul warned about it in Acts 20, Peter warned in 2Peter 3 about the error of the wicked. The end of the commandment is love, charity and a pure heart (1Tim 1:15) yet the modern church system teaches that you will always be the Romans wretch, the chief of all sinners, and that if you say you have no sin (ie. engaging presently in wickedness) you are a liar. The modern gospel is a sin gospel from beginning to end.
Don't be deceived. Most will be!
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
Falling Away - G646 -apostasia
Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), (“apostasy”): - falling away, forsake.
Let no MAN deceive you - G5100 - tis
An enclitic indefinite pronoun; some or any person or object: - a (kind of), any (man, thing, thing at all), certain (thing), divers, he (every) man, one (X thing), ought, + partly, some (man, -body, -thing, -what), (+ that no-) thing, what (-soever), X wherewith, whom [-soever], whose ([-soever]).
MAN of sin - G444 - anthrōpos
From G435 and ὤψ ōps (the countenance; from G3700); manfaced, that is, a human being: - certain, man.
Anthropos in Thayer's Lexicon (online)
anthropos - Online Bible Study Tools
Extended Defintion
FileSwap.com : anthropos.pdf download free
Bauer's Greek Lexicon
FileSwap.com : Bauers-Greek-Lexicon.pdf download free
Anthropos Word Study
Open Letter
Way - G3319 - mesos
From G3326; middle (as adjective or [neuter] noun): - among, X before them, between, + forth, mid [-day, -night], midst, way.
The man of sin is "mankind" not an individual. If Paul was speaking of an individual he would have used the word Tis not Anthropos. We are the temple and the man of sin is the body of individuals who sit in their own temple under the sway of the mystery of iniquity (lawlessness) as their own gods (never having submitted to Christ) having fallen away from the true faith which is the doctrine according to godliness.
The mystery of iniquity was already at work back then but was being withheld by sound teaching, ie. the Spirit of truth. Today the Spirit of truth has been removed completely from the midst of the church system. The "Wicked" has been revealed which simply means all lawlessness pervades the system.
This is why they teach you can be cleansed by the blood WITHOUT having to be walking in the light as He is in the light (1Joh 1:7). That one scripture alone should bother anyone who wants to know the truth and yet believes "confess, trust and receive" is the Gospel. If not then just keep ignoring it.
The modern gospel is presented as a package and all one has to do is "confess, trust and receive" to be saved. It is a deadly lie, it throws all the things that Jesus taught about denying yourself, striving, picking up our cross, keeping his commandments, digging deep, not turning back etc. right out the window. It is a message that tickles the ears and is easy to accept and many of those who buy into it will condemn the real truth which is the doctrine according to godliness (1Tim 6:3), ie. we WALK as He walked.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
God sends strong delusion that envelopes the mind. He sends it on those who reject the truth so that they could have pleasure in their unrighteousness. These people refused to depart from iniquity. They were workers of iniquity and Jesus Christ never knew them.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Read John 3 about the condemnation. The condemnation is rejection of the light. Don't do it, there are severe warnings about God giving you up if you reject the light. The light revealed will go dark and you will be unable to repent. Many will be shocked at the judgment just like Jesus said. When you are deceived you do not know it.
The number of the beast in Revelation 13:18 is the number of MAN which is anthropos which denotes mankind. It is the mark of the flesh, it is walking according to the flesh as opposed to walking according to the Spirit.
You must have the mark of God which is...
Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Deu 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Deu 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Deu 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
Not the mark of the beast.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Forehead is "Metapon" and it means "with an eye." It represents the "minds eye" and that word is only used the one time in Revelation where it is associated with the Mark of the Beast.
The false church system is dispensing the mark of the beast through a multitude of false teachers. Their message is a message of the flesh, they teach you people they can keep sinning and not surely die so long as they have "received Jesus." What they have in fact received is the mark, the mark of the flesh. They have NEVER crucified their old man in repentance with its passions and desires and thus still walk as a beast (Gal 5:24, Rom 6:6-7).
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Everyone is worshipping the creature and not the Creator, those within the false church system and those without. The false teachers assure this because they stand at the door misdirecting anyone from the truth (Joh 10:10).
Their are many lying signs and wonders in the church system, false manifestation of the Holy Spirit (fire coming down from heaven) and many are deceived. There is a a false Jesus, an image, and a multitude have bowed down before it (Rom 1:23). If you don't worship this image then you are not allowed to buy and sell within the church system and you will be told you are lost and dead in your sins.
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
Wrong again as I just showed the bible gives a number of names to one end times figure.
You are focusing to much on the antichrist title, which is a spiritual title working in the world through all those who are against Christ.
However the titles of man of sin and prince of this world is not given to a number of different individuals or people, they are referred to in bible to one last end time figure.
I do not listen to what other men say and take it as fact, for I go by the Word of God and let the Holy Spirit guide me in the studies to see if what others say do match up or not. You are only going by one scripture in the bible such as 1 John 2:18 for your understanding, however you are even misusing that scripture.
Notice how John says the Antirchrist is coming, with a capital "A", but then when he speaks of the spirit of antichrist that works through multitudes of people he uses a small case "a".
This is because they the Apostles taught back in their days there will be a main last end times figure.
John, Paul, Daniel, and Revelation all speak of this figure that will lead a group of 10 nations against Babylon and destroy her.
So I do listen to God and pray to Him constantly, and He reveals the truth to me by the Holy Spirit.
The bible does speak of a last and final end times figure called the man of sin that will go into a rebuilt temple and defile it............
Further references...
The word translated "man" in 2Th 2:3 is Anthropos in the Greek. The word "Tis" is not used there.
Anthropos is never used to identify a certain man with an identity. The exception often alluded to in Mat 9:9 has the name "Matthew" added to the text by the author whilst the narrative is speaking of Jesus seeing a certain man without identity, ie. Jesus simply saw a male human being.
Here is what Thayer's Greek Lexicon explains about "Anthropos" (ἄνθρωπος)...
Thayer's Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament
Here is what Vine's Expository Dictionary explains about "Anthropos" (ἄνθρωπος)...
Here is a link to Walter Bauers Greek Lexicon
http://www.scribd.com/doc/52343287/Greek-Lexicon
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Paul is simply warning people that gathering together with Christ will only occur after the falling away occurs first in conjunction with the revealing of the man of sin.
We are supposed to be the temple of God but the man of sin is representative of religious people in which self still sits upon the throne. It is in the latter times that such can take place in association with a falling away from the truth.
The "Mystery of Iniquity" has infected the established church system with Gnostic Dualism. The word "Mystery" in the Greek denotes the secrecy surrounding the philosophy hidden via the initiation into secret rites. Ever since Babylon there has been a religious philosophy which utterly opposes God but it has been veiled via the use of symbolism, rhetoric and rites. The philosophy of this ancient religious philosophy infiltrated nominal Christianity through Rome and it lies at the root of much of what purports to be Christianity today.
The true meaning of the "Mark of the Beast" is also connected to the use of the word "Anthropos" in the Greek. The Mark of the Beast is recieved by people who have been deceived by the false Christianity in the world today. They receive in their minds eye ("forehead" translated from "Metopon" literally means "with an eye" in the Greek) the mark of Satan which is simply a present state of the human mind being set on the flesh (mainly due to the teaching of "sin you will and sin you must" wrought via the deceptive doctrine of Original Sin). In other words the "Mark of the Beast" is simply the carnal mind working in conjunction with the notion that "one can sin and not surely die."
The Mark of God is...
Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Exo 13:9 And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.
The Mark of the Beast is...
Mat 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
The church system causes the deceived to receive the notion of being able to sin and not surely die as they operate in carnality with themselves sitting as gods in their own temple. These people refused to crucify their flesh with the passions and desires and yield with a single mind to God. Only those with mark are able to "buy and sell," or in other words "engage," in the church system. Those with the mark of God are cast out and are thus unable to do so. Those with the mark of God have already "sold all that they have" in order to "purchase" the pearl of great price and thus in effect need not buy and sell any more.
God purposely hides these things from the wicked so that they will do wickedly and not understand.
None of us have to be wicked. All we have to do is repent of all rebellion to God and yield. If we do that God offers us mercy and a full cleansing, as well as an abundant life.
The word translated "man" in 2Th 2:3 is Anthropos in the Greek. The word "Tis" is not used there.
Anthropos is never used to identify a certain man with an identity. The exception often alluded to in Mat 9:9 has the name "Matthew" added to the text by the author whilst the narrative is speaking of Jesus seeing a certain man without identity, ie. Jesus simply saw a male human being.
Here is what Thayer's Greek Lexicon explains about "Anthropos" (ἄνθρωπος)...
Thayer's Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament
Here is what Vine's Expository Dictionary explains about "Anthropos" (ἄνθρωπος)...
Vines Topical Bible
Here is a link to Walter Bauers Greek Lexicon
http://www.scribd.com/doc/52343287/Greek-Lexicon
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Paul is simply warning people that gathering together with Christ will only occur after the falling away occurs first in conjunction with the revealing of the man of sin.
We are supposed to be the temple of God but the man of sin is representative of religious people in which self still sits upon the throne. It is in the latter times that such can take place in association with a falling away from the truth.
The "Mystery of Iniquity" has infected the established church system with Gnostic Dualism. The word "Mystery" in the Greek denotes the secrecy surrounding the philosophy hidden via the initiation into secret rites. Ever since Babylon there has been a religious philosophy which utterly opposes God but it has been veiled via the use of symbolism, rhetoric and rites. The philosophy of this ancient religious philosophy infiltrated nominal Christianity through Rome and it lies at the root of much of what purports to be Christianity today.
The true meaning of the "Mark of the Beast" is also connected to the use of the word "Anthropos" in the Greek. The Mark of the Beast is recieved by people who have been deceived by the false Christianity in the world today. They receive in their minds eye ("forehead" translated from "Metopon" literally means "with an eye" in the Greek) the mark of Satan which is simply a present state of the human mind being set on the flesh (mainly due to the teaching of "sin you will and sin you must" wrought via the deceptive doctrine of Original Sin). In other words the "Mark of the Beast" is simply the carnal mind working in conjunction with the notion that "one can sin and not surely die."
The Mark of God is...
Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Exo 13:9 And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.
The Mark of the Beast is...
Mat 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
The church system causes the deceived to receive the notion of being able to sin and not surely die as they operate in carnality with themselves sitting as gods in their own temple. These people refused to crucify their flesh with the passions and desires and yield with a single mind to God. Only those with mark are able to "buy and sell," or in other words "engage," in the church system. Those with the mark of God are cast out and are thus unable to do so. Those with the mark of God have already "sold all that they have" in order to "purchase" the pearl of great price and thus in effect need not buy and sell any more.
God purposely hides these things from the wicked so that they will do wickedly and not understand.
None of us have to be wicked. All we have to do is repent of all rebellion to God and yield. If we do that God offers us mercy and a full cleansing, as well as an abundant life.
Not it isn't. Upper case and lower case letters are additions to the text. The early manuscripts were written in all capitals because lower case letters were not in use yet.
The Holy Spirit is not going to guide you to a revelation about uppercase A's verses lower case a's in the text when such a distinction didn't even exist at the time. You reached that conclusion by yourself apart from any divine revelation.
If that is one example of something clearly false you hold to, something false you think is from the Holy Spirit, is it possible there are other things that are equally false that you believe too? Other false things you think have been confirmed by this Holy Spirit you speak of?
What did you show by scripture Ken? You just talk like that is the gospel or something. You did mention Dan 9:26 concerning the people of the Prince that should come, but guess what Ken? Jesus said when the Prince of this world would come.
John 14:30
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
The Prince of this world influences his people by his spirit....spirit of antichrist (small "a") LOL
The scriptures are clear Ken and I use them to prove my points, not my own words...
1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Jesus said "now" concerning the coming of the Prince of this world, and his "spirit" working in many deceivers....the mystery of iniquity was already at work as Paul also said. Wake up!
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
Well that would be where you are wrong, because the Word of God says the Holy Spirit will guide a believer in all truth.
It does not say only lead in partial truths and leave you blind in other areas.
I did not reach that conclusion by myself, for the Holy Spirit has given me this teaching of the difference the bible shows in a one last end time figure called man of sin and prince of this world. Who Revelation shows his seat will be in Turkey, as the Apostle John says satan's seat/throne is in Pergamos, Turkey (Revelation 2:13) and this seat is given to the man of sin (Revelation 13:2).
People who are looking for an American president, Catholic pope, or a world system to fit this man of sin a.k.a. prince of this world figure is looking in the wrong places. For neither an American president nor a Catholic pope is stationed in Turkey, and being as how the bible shows he comes/rises out of Turkey it can not be a whole world system.
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
You are enter-changing scriptures that speak of the spirit of antichrist that works through people and those of the main figure of the end times. Notice how Jesus says just like John is coming, not that he has come already !!!
Yes there will be many that will be considered forms of the antichrist because of his spirit working through them, however there will be a final one who will be worse then those who came before him.
Daniel 9:26-27 has not already happened, for that is an event that happens shortly (3 1/2 years) before the Lord returns. This figure called the prince in Daniel will persecute and kill Christians and Jews for 3 1/2 years, 42 months, 1,260 days which all do match the same time frame by the Jewish calendar.
A final main end times evil figure has been taught since the first 12 Apostles through the early church in the 1st century all the way to now. I think I will believe what the very first Apostles and the early church taught over those who now days want to change it...................
I'll drop this study down I wrote maybe it will help some understand what Paul was saying about the man of sin compared to Jesus' testimony of the same.
We are told in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;” The falling away mentioned here by Paul has to do with the saints of God being overcome by the lies and deception of the Devil, and by his spirit, which is the spirit of a lie. This spirit of a lie is also shown as the false prophet spirit which works in many (many deceivers.)
Paul was playing off the words of Jesus when he referred to “that man” and “son of perdition” in the above verse. But this is not to be misunderstood as a single individual man yet to come in the future, but rather it speaks of the sin nature of man being raised back up again in the world, and also in the man-made church system. This is symbolized in the book of Revelation as the beast that comes up out of the bottomless pit, that was dead, but is being made alive again in the hearts and minds of many.
Notice how Jesus refers to a whole wicked generation as “a man” and “ that man” (like Paul said) here in Matthew 12:43-45 “When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.”
Now notice the wording Jesus used showing the “last state of that man” compared to Peters concerning this same falling away in 2 Peter 2:20-22 “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.[SUP]22 [/SUP]But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”
This being overcome is shown here in Revelation 13:7 “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.” So this spirit of deception and lies would also overcome the saints as is also confirmed here in Daniel 7:21 “I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;” That horn is the tail of the red Dragon, which speaks of the spirit of a lie working in all the world to practice and prosper and cast the truth and some of the host to the ground.
So was Paul talking about a single man, or a whole wicked generation like Jesus said? Well if you read the whole chapter in 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 “And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:[SUP]12 [/SUP]That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
Part one, continue to next.
We are told in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;” The falling away mentioned here by Paul has to do with the saints of God being overcome by the lies and deception of the Devil, and by his spirit, which is the spirit of a lie. This spirit of a lie is also shown as the false prophet spirit which works in many (many deceivers.)
Paul was playing off the words of Jesus when he referred to “that man” and “son of perdition” in the above verse. But this is not to be misunderstood as a single individual man yet to come in the future, but rather it speaks of the sin nature of man being raised back up again in the world, and also in the man-made church system. This is symbolized in the book of Revelation as the beast that comes up out of the bottomless pit, that was dead, but is being made alive again in the hearts and minds of many.
Notice how Jesus refers to a whole wicked generation as “a man” and “ that man” (like Paul said) here in Matthew 12:43-45 “When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.”
Now notice the wording Jesus used showing the “last state of that man” compared to Peters concerning this same falling away in 2 Peter 2:20-22 “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.[SUP]22 [/SUP]But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”
This being overcome is shown here in Revelation 13:7 “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.” So this spirit of deception and lies would also overcome the saints as is also confirmed here in Daniel 7:21 “I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;” That horn is the tail of the red Dragon, which speaks of the spirit of a lie working in all the world to practice and prosper and cast the truth and some of the host to the ground.
So was Paul talking about a single man, or a whole wicked generation like Jesus said? Well if you read the whole chapter in 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 “And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:[SUP]12 [/SUP]That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
Part one, continue to next.
Clearly Paul was talking about more than one single individual man. But what about the son of perdition? It speaks of the same thing, as was first symbolized in Judas (one who broke bread at the Lords table) who also sold out the Truth for a pocket full of silver, just as the firstborn Esau sold his birth right for some red pottage. Look at what Peter had to say about the “son of perdition.”
Peter goes on to quote scripture concerning Judas, (son of perdition) in the Psalms Acts 1:20 “For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.” Now, in order to confirm my point about there being more than one “son of perdition” or son who goes into destruction, let’s look at the Psalms from where Peter was drawing this from.
In Psalm 69 we see this same language used in verse Psalm 69:25 “Let their habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents.” Notice the Psalm says “their” as in more than one. As a matter of fact, if you read the whole Psalm the Lord is speaking of many, like in verse 4 the Lord says “they that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head”. The Lord repeatedly uses the words “they their, them”, in the Psalm just as Paul also used the same language in 2 Thess 2:10-12 describing the man of sin, and son of perdition.
Now let’s confirm the same message in another Psalm which speaks of what Peter quoted in Psalm 109:8 “Let his days be few; and let another take his office.” Now that sounds more like what Peter was quoting from when he said in Acts 1:20 “Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take” Which does speak specifically about the single man Judas. (Which has already been fulfilled as Jesus noted in John 17:12.)
But let’s now look at that Psalm in the greater context of what is being said.
Psalm 109:1-13 109 Hold not thy peace, O God of my praise;[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.[SUP]3 [/SUP]They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause.[SUP]4 [/SUP]For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer.[SUP]5 [/SUP]And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.[SUP]6 [/SUP]Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.[SUP]7 [/SUP]When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.[SUP]8 [/SUP]Let his days be few; and let another take his office.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.[SUP]10 [/SUP]Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour.[SUP]12 [/SUP]Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.”
So though him was referring to the single man Judas in this Psalm, as both Jesus and Peter confirmed, I believe it is very clear that Paul was not talking about a single man yet to come, but rather a whole wicked generation who would fall away from following after the Truth in Christ, and also go into destruction.
Hebrews 6:4-8 “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:[SUP]8 [/SUP]But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”
Peter goes on to quote scripture concerning Judas, (son of perdition) in the Psalms Acts 1:20 “For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.” Now, in order to confirm my point about there being more than one “son of perdition” or son who goes into destruction, let’s look at the Psalms from where Peter was drawing this from.
In Psalm 69 we see this same language used in verse Psalm 69:25 “Let their habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents.” Notice the Psalm says “their” as in more than one. As a matter of fact, if you read the whole Psalm the Lord is speaking of many, like in verse 4 the Lord says “they that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head”. The Lord repeatedly uses the words “they their, them”, in the Psalm just as Paul also used the same language in 2 Thess 2:10-12 describing the man of sin, and son of perdition.
Now let’s confirm the same message in another Psalm which speaks of what Peter quoted in Psalm 109:8 “Let his days be few; and let another take his office.” Now that sounds more like what Peter was quoting from when he said in Acts 1:20 “Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take” Which does speak specifically about the single man Judas. (Which has already been fulfilled as Jesus noted in John 17:12.)
But let’s now look at that Psalm in the greater context of what is being said.
Psalm 109:1-13 109 Hold not thy peace, O God of my praise;[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.[SUP]3 [/SUP]They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause.[SUP]4 [/SUP]For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer.[SUP]5 [/SUP]And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.[SUP]6 [/SUP]Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.[SUP]7 [/SUP]When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.[SUP]8 [/SUP]Let his days be few; and let another take his office.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.[SUP]10 [/SUP]Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour.[SUP]12 [/SUP]Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.”
So though him was referring to the single man Judas in this Psalm, as both Jesus and Peter confirmed, I believe it is very clear that Paul was not talking about a single man yet to come, but rather a whole wicked generation who would fall away from following after the Truth in Christ, and also go into destruction.
Hebrews 6:4-8 “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:[SUP]8 [/SUP]But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”