The man of sin (2 Tess 2:1-4)

[Skinski7]

One of the most succinct passages in all the Bible regarding this subject is 2nd Peter chapter 1 where we find...

2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: Peter is addressing those who have obtained (possess) the same working faith that He has, a faith that operates through the righteousness of God and the Spirit of life In Jesus Christ (Rom 8:2-4)
2Pe 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, Grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and to walk according to godliness (Tit 2:11-12) and this grace (and the peace associated with it) is multiplied through the knowledge of God, ie. our knowledge of godliness increases.
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: God has given us all we need that pertain to life and godliness (life and godliness go hand in hand, ie. abundant life) and God's power is manifest through His grace (in Greek grace means divine influence upon the heart). God calls us to glory and virtue (see Rom 2:7) the end of which is eternal life (Rom 6:22).
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. It is through the "all things given" (grace) that we given the exceeding and previous promises (ie. abide in me and I will abide in you), that we might PARTAKE or SHARE in the same divine nature of God (which is the nature of virtue/godliness), having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

ESCAPED THE CORRUPTION THAT IS IN THE WORLD THROUGH LUST.

Name a single church congregation today which teaches anything about "having escaped" the corruption that is in the world through lust. There is only a handful in contrast to the multitude that don't teach anything about that.

Every true Christian has escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust via the crucifixion of their old man with the associated passions and desires. It is the "lusts of the flesh" which draw people into sin (see Jam 1:14-15) and the means to escape being "drawn away of his own lust" to to crucify those lusts in repentance and henceforth abide in the Spirit of life IN Jesus Christ.

Any person who cannot testify of that happening in their life is not a true Christian.

Christians have...

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Anyone who is not dead to sin through the death of the old man, from henceforth they no longer serve sin, is not a real Christian.

2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; After escaping the corruption that is in the world through lust and having been raised up to newness of life by the Spirit we have to ADD to our faith. That means we have to ensure we are walking circumspectly in the fear of God bring both mind and body into subjection. This is the STRAIT GATE and NARROW WAY Jesus spoke of which LEADS to life. It is full of obstacles.

We enter in at the strait gate and endure the narrow way which LEADS to life.

Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
NARROW - stenos - Probably from the base of G2476; narrow (from obstacles standing close about): - strait.
STRAIT - thlibō - Akin to the base of G5147; to crowd (literally or figuratively): - afflict, narrow, throng, suffer tribulation, trouble.

How many modern Christian teachers teach that?

Paul agreed with that teaching of Jesus because he taught...

Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Eternal life to whom? Those who patiently continue in well doing. That means continue to DO the right thing, ie. walk in godliness. Of course tell people today that we MUST do that and you'll be called a legalist, you'll be called self righteous, you'll be called evil.

2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. These things have to be in us in order for us to bear fruit in the knowledge of Jesus Christ. What did Jesus say?

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Those whom lack those things has departed from their purpose and have forgotten their previous cleansing, for they have gone back to filthiness (where they have not laid a hold of virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness, and love (charity).
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Only those who DO those things will never fall and thus, in the end, be ministered an abundant entrance in the everlasting kingdom of Jesus Christ.


A question for everyone....


Have YOU escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust?

 

[Skinski7]

Well that would be where you are wrong, because the Word of God says the Holy Spirit will guide a believer in all truth.
It does not say only lead in partial truths and leave you blind in other areas.

I did not reach that conclusion by myself, for the Holy Spirit has given me this teaching of the difference the bible shows in a one last end time figure called man of sin and prince of this world. Who Revelation shows his seat will be in Turkey, as the Apostle John says satan's seat/throne is in Pergamos, Turkey (Revelation 2:13) and this seat is given to the man of sin (Revelation 13:2).

People who are looking for an American president, Catholic pope, or a world system to fit this man of sin a.k.a. prince of this world figure is looking in the wrong places. For neither an American president nor a Catholic pope is stationed in Turkey, and being as how the bible shows he comes/rises out of Turkey it can not be a whole world system.

I'll say it again...

Upper case and lower case letters are additions to the text. The early manuscripts were written in all capitals because lower case letters were not in use yet.

The Holy Spirit is not going to guide you to a revelation about uppercase A's verses lower case a's in the text when such a distinction didn't even exist at the time. You reached that conclusion by yourself apart from any divine revelation.

If that is one example of something clearly false you hold to, something false you think is from the Holy Spirit, is it possible there are other things that are equally false that you believe too? Other false things you think have been confirmed by this Holy Spirit you speak of?

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/115367-man-sin-2-tess-2-1-4-a-3.html#post2116233

John wrote in all capitals when he wrote his letter. Lower case letters had not been invented yet. Look it up.

The Holy Spirit is not going to tell you that John made a distinction between uppercase and lowercase when no distinction existed in that time. That conclusion of yours is inaccurate.

 

[dcontroversal]

Wow. Not only are you flawed in saying that this world leader is not a person but mankind, your very judgmental. You do not even know the person you are responding to or what he believes and you judged him as lost. You have some serious internal reflecting to do. Your acting like satan, not like God.

as for how Christianity acts today. You can not find in the bible the way Christianity has acted since about the third century. It is not Christianity that is failing (his true children are few, and still pushin on in his power) most of what calls itself christianity does not even know who Christ is.

try to take a dose of humility before you start trying to teach others.

Amen to that and not to mention that (man) and (mankind) are two different words, two different GREEK words and the word for MAN (singular) is used in the Thessalonian text....not the word for mankind...............

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

You are enter-changing scriptures that speak of the spirit of antichrist that works through people and those of the main figure of the end times. Notice how Jesus says just like John is coming, not that he has come already !!!

Yes there will be many that will be considered forms of the antichrist because of his spirit working through them, however there will be a final one who will be worse then those who came before him.

Daniel 9:26-27 has not already happened, for that is an event that happens shortly (3 1/2 years) before the Lord returns. This figure called the prince in Daniel will persecute and kill Christians and Jews for 3 1/2 years, 42 months, 1,260 days which all do match the same time frame by the Jewish calendar.

A final main end times evil figure has been taught since the first 12 Apostles through the early church in the 1st century all the way to now. I think I will believe what the very first Apostles and the early church taught over those who now days want to change it...................

Ken, how can you say the Prince of this world and his spirit of antichrist has not already come when I gave you the words that say he has come? I give you scripture and you babble on without scripture about some imaginary man figure yet to come. LOL

Again, the words of the Lord and the apostles...believe it, or not!

Again You did mention Dan 9:26 concerning the people of the Prince that should come, but guess what Ken? Jesus said when the Prince of this world would come.

John 14:30
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.



John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

The Prince of this world influences his people by his spirit....spirit of antichrist (small "a") LOL

The scriptures are clear Ken and I use them to prove my points, not my own words...

1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Jesus said "now" concerning the coming of the Prince of this world, and his "spirit" working in many deceivers....the mystery of iniquity was already at work as Paul also said. Wake up!

 

[Skinski7]

[SIZE=-1]Uncials[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]There are approximately 300 uncials known to exist today that contain portions of the New Testament and one uncial that contains the entire NT. Like the papyri, these manuscripts were written with uncial or capital letters, but unlike the papyri they were written on animal skins or vellum. For the most part they are beautiful manuscripts, elegantly written and routinely done in scriptoria and often for special purposes. Generally speaking, they range in date from the fourth through the ninth centuries. Our oldest complete copy of the NT is an uncial manuscript, [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Í[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] (see chart below). The symbol for each uncial is either a capital letter (in Latin or Greek letters [though one ms has a Hebrew letter, [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Í[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]]) or a number beginning with 0 (e.g., 01, 0220, etc.). The most important uncials cited in the NET NT footnotes are as follows:[/SIZE]

Principal Manuscript Evidence for the Greek New Testament | Bible.org Help

At the following link you can browse through some ancient uncials...

Papyrology Collection | U-M Library

example...



Notice there are zero lower case letters. They did not use them yet.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I'll say it again...

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/115367-man-sin-2-tess-2-1-4-a-3.html#post2116233

John wrote in all capitals when he wrote his letter. Lower case letters had not been invented yet. Look it up.

The Holy Spirit is not going to tell you that John made a distinction between uppercase and lowercase when no distinction existed in that time. That conclusion of yours is inaccurate.

You are focusing to much on what seems to me that you went to a man made educational system to learn the bible, and therefore are focusing to much on the capital or no capital letters. Putting to much education in a man made system above the guidance of the Holy Spirit is not only dangerous but wrong.


You can not take and prove your point using over education by a man made system, and also by focusing on just one scripture or passage.

You have to pull all scriptures in the bible from the OT and NT on the subject to know what all is being said, and use prayer to God to reveal what is being said by His Holy Spirit.

I moved away from the whole debate about capital or no capital letters in my last post, but your response is still hanging on that.

Once again I will state!!!

The first Apostles taught directly by Jesus and those who understudied under them in the 1st century of the church taught of a final end times main figure, besides just the spirit of antichrist in all who appose God.

Even the OT prophecies including Daniel 9 that I gave make reference to him as well.
Revelation 2:13 and 13:2 says that satan's seat/throne is located in Turkey, and this seat/throne is given to the man of sin/beast/antichrist/son of perdition.............

 

[kennethcadwell]

First don't put false accusations on me !!!

I never said the below enlarged, bolded, and underlined statement you made below.
I said that I know that his spirit is in this world and has been working for a long time now, but the main end times figure given the title of man of sin/prince of this world given from Daniel 9:26-27, 2 Thessalonians 2, and Revelation 13 has not come yet.

There has been many forms of the antichrist because of his spirit working in the world, however when the final end times main figure comes to power the bible clearly says there will be no time on earth from the past or the future that will be worse then this period of time.
We have already had many worse events then the 70 AD event, and the Holocaust was not the Great Tribulation, nor does the GT last for 100's or 1,000's of years. The bible gives a clear time frame for this period called the GT in these sayings; time, times, and half a times = 42 months = 1,260 days.

Anybody who has studied the Jewish calendar would know all three of those refer to the same amount of time frame: 3 1/2 years..........

Ken, how can you say the Prince of this world and his spirit of antichrist has not already come when I gave you the words that say he has come? I give you scripture and you babble on without scripture about some imaginary man figure yet to come. LOL

Again, the words of the Lord and the apostles...believe it, or not!

Again You did mention Dan 9:26 concerning the people of the Prince that should come, but guess what Ken? Jesus said when the Prince of this world would come.

John 14:30
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.



John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

The Prince of this world influences his people by his spirit....spirit of antichrist (small "a") LOL

The scriptures are clear Ken and I use them to prove my points, not my own words...

1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Jesus said "now" concerning the coming of the Prince of this world, and his "spirit" working in many deceivers....the mystery of iniquity was already at work as Paul also said. Wake up!

 

[DesiredHaven]

Mat 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself,
and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man (anthrōpos)is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Whats pretty cool in this (which I dont see mentioned if it be the case, is that one evil spirit + seven others = eight of them in respects to "that man" (anthrōpos) = to this "wicked generation" (of many people)

Speaking of this last state of a generation out of which an evil spirit has departed, and then speaking of the after math of several more evil spirits coming back in with the last would somewhat testify of their "condition" (or state) in respects to these evils.

Which is sorta cool because Paul speaks of sending Tim to report back to him in respects to their state

Like Phil 2:19 But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state.

He was always checking in on them, and then we see Paul fearing to find them in another state (growing worse) and Paul mentions them finding them not as he would (and he of they too aparently) and then ironically mentiones eight things he feared to find among them

2 Cr 12:20 For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates # 1 , envyings # 2 , wraths # 3, strifes # 4, backbitings # 5, whisperings # 6, swellings # 7, tumults # 8

That even seems to ressemble an evil spirit which had departed, but now returning with seven more ( even the worst of the worst... 1+7= 8) and they together becoming (in and of themselves) like a cage (or habitation) of hateful birds or even a hold of every foul spirit in all those same things

The pictures just seem to ressemble thats all (not saying anything more then that, just gives that same impression) at least it does to me

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

First don't put false accusations on me !!!

I never said the below enlarged, bolded, and underlined statement you made below.

Really? Here's what you said...

Originally Posted by kennethcadwell You are enter-changing scriptures that speak of the spirit of antichrist that works through people and those of the main figure of the end times. Notice how Jesus says just like John is coming, not that he has come already !!![end quote]

Funny, I thought John said he was talking about antichrist coming, who John also said had come already? Hmmm. So where is the false accusation in my statement? And by your above statement you also deny the testimony of both Jesus and John by saying "not that he has come already"

 

[kennethcadwell]

Really? Here's what you said...

Originally Posted by kennethcadwell You are enter-changing scriptures that speak of the spirit of antichrist that works through people and those of the main figure of the end times. Notice how Jesus says just like John is coming, not that he has come already !!![end quote]

Funny, I thought John said he was talking about antichrist coming, who John also said had come already? Hmmm. So where is the false accusation in my statement? And by your above statement you also deny the testimony of both Jesus and John by saying "not that he has come already"

I was showing that you were enter-changing scriptures that speak of the antichrist with those that speak of the spirit of antichrist.

You must learn to discern the difference between;

The last main end times figure antichrist (man of sin, prince of this world) who has not come yet, that Jesus and John is referring to as coming.

"And"

The spirit of antichrist that works through all those who oppose God and try and put themselves in place of Him.


There is a difference between the two and the scriptures speak of both, one has come and been in the world already (spirit of antichrist) and the other is still to come (man of sin/prince of this world).
That quote you posted of mine does not say the spirit of antichrist has not come, for it is only referring to the man of sin end times figure that has not come yet.

Because if this figure has already come and past, then Jesus would have already made His 2nd coming, the battle of Armageddon would have already been fought, and we would either be in the Millennial reign of Christ now or after the 1,000 years have ended. Neither of those events have taken place !!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your a liar for saying John said he was actively sinning. Show me where John said that? You cannot because it is a lie!

Here is what exposes your lies about John....

1 John 3:6-10[SUP]6 [/SUP]Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

If John was actively sinning and in sin as you suggest, and at the time he wrote those words, this would imply John was of the Devil. (whosoever sins is of the Devil)

Also to say John was in sin and actively sinning would also imply that John was not born of God. (whosoever is born of God sins not)

And how could John be "in Christ" and also "in sin" as you suggest? (whosoever abide in Him (Christ) sins not)

Your doctrine is full lies and deception, twisting the words of John in order to make yourself feel better about your own sinful ways.

You just called John a liar.

Why do you ask for proof when I showed it to you?

1 John 1 8. If we (this includes john) say we do NOT HAVE (present tense ACTIVE VERB) sin, We deceive ourselves and their is no truth in us.

Why do you post verses which show habitual sin? There is a huge difference between habitual sin, and sin that John spoke of in John 8..again, I have to go with John. Not you. You are decieved thinking you are sinless. and have not yet repented.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh I understand perfectly. You and your bro EG there call good evil, and evil good.

Isaiah 5:20
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Dude, You need to confess. where have I ever called evil good? You are evil for bearing false witness against others.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I was showing that you were enter-changing scriptures that speak of the antichrist with those that speak of the spirit of antichrist.

You must learn to discern the difference between;

The last main end times figure antichrist (man of sin, prince of this world) who has not come yet, that Jesus and John is referring to as coming.

"And"

The spirit of antichrist that works through all those who oppose God and try and put themselves in place of Him.


There is a difference between the two and the scriptures speak of both, one has come and been in the world already (spirit of antichrist) and the other is still to come (man of sin/prince of this world).
That quote you posted of mine does not say the spirit of antichrist has not come, for it is only referring to the man of sin end times figure that has not come yet.

Because if this figure has already come and past, then Jesus would have already made His 2nd coming, the battle of Armageddon would have already been fought, and we would either be in the Millennial reign of Christ now or after the 1,000 years have ended. Neither of those events have taken place !!!

Ken, I gave you multiple verses of scriptures from both Jesus and John who said the Prince of this world and his spirit had come already, and you deny the words of the Lord. Now if you have a different set of scriptures that say the antichrist is a single individual man yet to come in the future as you claim, then by all means provide them. Other wise your just manufacturing a false doctrine out of nothing more than your own imagination. Have a nice day.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Dude, You need to confess. where have I ever called evil good? You are evil for bearing false witness against others.

I did confess, your a liar.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I did confess, your a liar.

So where is the proof?

 

[Reborn]

I did confess, your a liar.

So are you.

Twice in the past, l've presented scripture to you, and after not being able to debate it, you kept on teaching your lies.
A liar and a hypocrite.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

So are you.

Twice in the past, l've presented scripture to you, and after not being able to debate it, you kept on teaching your lies.
A liar and a hypocrite.

More accusations from my fan club.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

So where is the proof?

Your words are proof enough.

 

[Reborn]

More accusations from my fan club.

Just truth...In Truth.

I know how you're all about the "truth".

I think you know what l'm talking about.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Ken, I gave you multiple verses of scriptures from both Jesus and John who said the Prince of this world and his spirit had come already, and you deny the words of the Lord. Now if you have a different set of scriptures that say the antichrist is a single individual man yet to come in the future as you claim, then by all means provide them. Other wise your just manufacturing a false doctrine out of nothing more than your own imagination. Have a nice day.

You did not show one verse where Jesus and John said the prince of this world had already came....
What you showed was verses that said the spirit of antichrist working in the world has already come, which is true, but the ones of a main last end times figure both Jesus and John say he is coming not he has already.
This is why I said you are enter-changing scriptures because you are not using discernment to separate the two, but instead bunching them all together as one.