God loves the sinner and hates the sin.

Jason0047 · Jun 12, 2015

I think there is a misunderstanding. I thought you were against the idea that a believer cannot stop sinning. Is that true? If that is the case, then surely you would have supported me before on that particular point, no? For IF you do believe you cannot stop sinning, and yet you also believe God expects you to stop sinning, then how do you not see that as a contradiction?

Let me ask you this. If it was possible to stop sinning (Which the Bible does teach), then why wouldn't you take that chance on wanting to stop in your sin?

eternally-gratefull · Jun 12, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Because John says if we say we have no (present tense active verb)sin, we decieve ourselves. and there is no truth in us.

Not everyone wants to be am egomaniac like yourself who thinks he is perfect. Most of us want to realise we are not perfect.

Why bother keep on trying to stop sin if we are sinless? We continue to work against sin only because we are humble enough to know we still fail.

twotwo · Jun 12, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Make me think of the parable of the pharisee and the tax collector! Guess who would be the pharisee? LOL

Jason0047 · Jun 12, 2015

eternally-gratefull said:

Seriously. Is that it? Is that all you got? A wrong understanding on just one verse like 1 John 1:8? Surely Scripture would bear testimony of this truth elsewhere, no? But see, according to the context, such a view that you will always abide in sin (as per the wrong understanding on 1 John 1:8) cannot be supported. For 1 John 2:4 says he that says he knows him and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him. So if one is always in sin, then they are breaking God's Commands which means they are a liar and the truth is not in them. This is also repeated in 1 John 1:6, that says he that says he has fellowship with him and walks in darkness is a liar and the truth is not in him. Also, John tells the brethen to... "sin not."

See, the OSAS proponent's belief today is very similar to the gnostic belief. The difference is that the gnostic did not believe they could sin. I know this first hand because I remember growing up hearing about this type of false belief when I was younger. It was called "Christian Science." It denied the existence of "sin." We see this today with the OSAS proponent but yet they do a slight of hand magic trick to make it appear like they are obeying that verse but it is from a wrong perspective, though. In other words, the OSAS proponent believes that 1 John 1:8 says they sin physically in the flesh, but yet in the spirit their sin is automatically forgiven because Jesus paid the price for their sins: past, present, and future.

But that is not what 1 John 1:8 is saying. Nowhere does it say anything like that in 1 John chapters 1-5. It is all imaginary. 1 John 1:8 is a warning to the brethren about these false gnostics belief whereby they denied the existence of "sin" .... sort of like the Christian Science people deny the existence of sin. This is why John says to ... "sin not." But if you do sin, you have an advocate named Jesus Christ that you can go to (1 John 2:1) whereby you can confess your sins so as to be forgiven of your sins (1 John 1:9). So the true believer does not deny sin if sin does happen to arise in their life. The gnostic belief is exposed by the fact John says.... if we say we have fellowship with him and walk in darkness, we lie and do not the truth. This is a denial of sin's existence. Which is also what the OSAS proponent does but yet, they cover their bases by saying they sin physically but yet not spiritually. This is also a gnostic belief. That flesh is all bad and spirit is good. Jesus entered the flesh of sinful man and He still has a physical body right now. There is no glorified body. He still has the same flesh that we do. For if He did not, then He could not raise us from the dead like He was risen from the dead. It's why He took on our sins in His body.

Mitspa · Jun 12, 2015

Is this one of those threads where only Jason can be right and no one else can post, or can people discuss what the bible says?

3Scoreand10 · Jun 12, 2015

Jason0047 said:

As long as we live in the flesh we are subject to sin.
It is not what we want , it is not what God wants, but while the Spirit is saved and sinless, the flesh is not.
I hate sin. Every beliver I know or have know hates sin.
We try very hard to control the flesh and not sin. But unlike you we confess that we fail. Sometimes the flesh wins.
God wants us to be sinless, but He knows that because of us living in sinful flesh we will fail.
That is why he convicts us, chastises us, leads us to confess and forgives.
But He will never take back His promise of eternal life just because I fail from time to time.
Jason you are not sinless. You have lied about people on CC and have NEVER admitted it.
Jason you are deceiving yourself and calling God a lier when you say you do not sin.
I have placed my hope for eternal life in the hand of Jesus Christ and He said NO MAN can take me out of His hand. Not Satan, not you and not me.
I trust my Savior. You do not trust Him. You believe He is not strong enough to keep you. When He said Everlasting Life you do not believe Him.

I really feel sorry for you and other who limit the power of Jesus to keep you saved and think you must help him by living a sinless life.
While I pray that God will close you mouth, I also pray that you will see the power of my Savior.

dcontroversal · Jun 12, 2015

Mitspa said:

Isn't it obvious.....

Sirk · Jun 12, 2015

Mitspa said:

This is where you need to just sit down and shut your coconut hole learn at the feet of the mighty Jason 0047.

Rosesrock · Jun 12, 2015

Mitspa said:

Now he's gettin it

SarahM777 · Jun 12, 2015

Jason0047 said:

And what are His commands?

1 John 3

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For this is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters,[SUP][b][/SUP] if the world hates you. [SUP]14 [/SUP]We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. [SUP]17 [/SUP]If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? [SUP]18 [/SUP]Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: [SUP]20 [/SUP]If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God [SUP]22 [/SUP]and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. [SUP]24 [/SUP]The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Romans 13

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. [SUP]9 [/SUP]The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”[SUP][a][/SUP] and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]10 [/SUP]Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Perfect love CAN NOT SIN. We are in training to learn to live in PERFECT LOVE. We all still fall short of perfect love in this life.

psalm6819 · Jun 12, 2015

Jason did you EVER speed when you were in your 20's?
Did you EVER exceed the speed limit in your 30's?
While in your 40's did you EVER go even one mile over the speed limit?

The Bible says we are to obey the laws of the land... if you have continued speeding that would be continually sinning over decades, is that not your linchpin? To continue in willful sin???????

The law will NEVER make you holy-it was made to show our complete and total inadequacy and turn us to Jesus.

Good night and LORD please make Jason aware of how much You truly love him and You will not forsake him.

Gr8grace · Jun 12, 2015

3Scoreand10 said:

They need the gospel. They are here to glorify his grace. Every time he posts something, the truth shows up and we set aside our petty differences. He needs Christ and the truth more than a wicked sinner. He is in darkness and thinks he is in the light. So God probably has him here to see the light and to "shape" us as born again believers.

He is in a tougher spot than the outright sinner......he thinks he is the light. and God probably has him here to pound grace into his head.........because God wants him saved and so do I.

Hes getting Acts 16:31 every time he responds to my posts.

psalm6819 · Jun 12, 2015

I can't delete that post. I should not have said that please accept my apology, Jason, I know this is not a joke to you but it seems such a skewered idea of God like He can't make up His mind.

The God I know is faithful, He is looooooongsuffering,picking me up and brushing me off when I fall not knocking me back down.

Gr8grace · Jun 12, 2015

psalm6819 said:

There would be no need of your deleting your post IMO.

Jason0047 · Jun 12, 2015

3Scoreand10 said:

Do you have a Bible verse to back up this statement?

Do you have a Bible verse for this one?

And a verse for these words?

What verse says this?

Sorry, doesn't make any sense. Chastening is to correct bad behavior. You can't correct bad behavior if one is forever bad. Do you not know that Paul says we cannot continue in sin?

Need a verse that says this, too. In other words, we need a verse that says a believer has the promise of eternal life even if they sin.

True. I am not Jesus. I am human and I have sinned in the past. But I currently do not abide in unrepentant sin as a way of life.

I do not set out to attack any one person specificailly. That is never my goal or intent. Many times when I write to someone I say.... IF you believe such and such then.... this bad stuff more than likely applies to you (Is what I am saying). Notice how I never actually mention a person's name or come right out and attack one person? I only judge if someone has wrongfully judged me and even then I strive to do good unto them.

Please show me where I had lied. If it appeared that I had done so, that was not my intent. My goal is to attack the doctrine, not the person.

And you know my life... how? Are you able to read my thoughts every day?

At the end of Romans 8, the nothing that can separate us from the love of Christ does not include "you" in those verses. They are are all external things that cannot separate you from the love of Christ.

I do trust Him as my Savior. I just do not think His grace covers present or future sin that is not confessed or forsaken. God does not cover a rebellious person.

And I am sorry you believe God will let His people get away with evil. Sorry, not going to happen. Not on God's watch. God's grace does not cover willful rebellion and darkness. People have to repent of their sins and have a Godly sorrow over sin. They have to turn from sin and forsake it.

Jason0047 · Jun 13, 2015

psalm6819 said:

The BIble says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins (1 John 1:9). It also says if we walk in the light as he is in the light then the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7).

Jason0047 · Jun 13, 2015

psalm6819 said:

There are sins that lead unto death and there are sins that do not lead unto death (1 John 5:16-18). Sins that do not lead unto death would be hidden or secret faults (Psalm 19:12) like breaking the speed limit or not taking out the trash last week. For he to knoweth to do good and he does it not, to him it is sin. However, sins unto death are those sins that Paul lists several times in the New Testament that will cause a person not to inherit the Kingdom of God. Such sins would be lying, adultery, theft, murder, hate, and drunkenness, etc. They are called sins unto death because Paul says if you do these things, you will die (in Romans) and John says in Revelation 21:8 that these types of sins will lead one to experience the Second Death (Which is the Lake of Fire). Sins unto death have to be confessed and forsaken (See 1 John 1:9 and 1 John 1:7).

Jeff_56 · Jun 13, 2015

Re: God loves some; they obey righteousness.

Romans 6:12-23Common English Bible (CEB)

[SUP]12 [/SUP]So then, don’t let sin rule your body, so that you do what it wants. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Don’t offer parts of your body to sin, to be used as weapons to do wrong. Instead, present yourselves to God as people who have been brought back to life from the dead, and offer all the parts of your body to God to be used as weapons to do right.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Sin will have no power over you, because you aren’t under Law but under grace.

Freedom from sin

[SUP]15 [/SUP]So what? Should we sin because we aren’t under Law but under grace? Absolutely not! [SUP]16 [/SUP]Don’t you know that if you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, that you are slaves of the one whom you obey? That’s true whether you serve as slaves of sin, which leads to death, or as slaves of the kind of obedience that leads to righteousness.

<<<NOW for those who are immersed in yahshua>>>>>(NOT unfaithful)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But thank God that although you* used to be slaves of sin, you* gave wholehearted obedience to the teaching that was handed down to you*, which provides a pattern. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Now that you* have been set free from sin, you* have become slaves of righteousness.

(((no longer slaves of sin))) (((not subject to sin)))

Jason0047 · Jun 13, 2015

SarahM777 said:

And what are His commands?

1 John 3

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For this is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters,[SUP][b][/SUP] if the world hates you. [SUP]14 [/SUP]We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. [SUP]17 [/SUP]If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? [SUP]18 [/SUP]Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: [SUP]20 [/SUP]If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God [SUP]22 [/SUP]and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.[SUP]24 [/SUP]The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Romans 13

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. [SUP]9 [/SUP]The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”[SUP][a][/SUP] and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]10 [/SUP]Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Perfect love CAN NOT SIN. We are in training to learn to live in PERFECT LOVE. We all still fall short of perfect love in this life.

You were doing well when you were just quoting Scripture alone and then when you added a personal opinion, it just nullified what the Word of God was saying. For the Bible does say you can cease from sin (See 1 Peter 4:1, and Galatians 5:24). For Peter identifies certain false prophets as not having ceased from sin (2 Peter 2:1, 14).

Jeff_56 · Jun 13, 2015

Jason0047 said:

yes, THANKFULLY! (WHEW!) ....

now, rhetorically almost, on this forum there's many who 'confess' their sins but keep doing them -- i.e. they don't 'repent', but only just admit that they sin... (and even say the sin is more powerful than they are )... and that because sin is more powerful than they are, it's okay to sin!!! (willingly!! just let sin live in the house, instead of kicking it out, so to speak) ...

is that type of 'confession' different from a true believer's confession (that includes repentance)?

God loves the sinner and hates the sin.

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