POLL: The Deity of Christ

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The Deity of Christ?


  • Total voters
    61
  • Poll closed .
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
The Pharisees of Jesus day have more excuse than some in this debate who seek to condemn others. For they quoted the literal letter to condemn, though they did not understand the heart of what that letter contained.
No one in this debate has the literal letter to insist you must believe Christ is God himself to be saved
, only the mind of man
Jn 8:24 - "You will die in your sin if you do not believe that I AM." (Jn 13:19)

"I am he"
(who I say I am, here).
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
614
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Alabama
Jn 8:24 - "You will die in your sin if you do not believe that I AM." (Jn 13:19)

"I am he"
(who I say I am, here).

And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am (He), you will die in your sins.”
This is a contrast of origins. “You are from below” represents a particular epistemology – a state of mind, a way of reasoning, a process of determining what is true. Their epistemology was from below and reflected the mind of the world. Jesus' epistemology was from heaven and reflected the mind of God. The 'he' is not in the Greek and the insertion of the pronoun in the English translations is, I think, both unwarranted and unfortunate. The insertion of the pronoun leads to uncalled for speculation about Jesus use of ἐγώ εἰμι. Jesus is not using ἐγώ εἰμι here as declaration of divine title as he does in verse 58. Here, ἐγώ εἰμι simply modifies his claims of the two previous clause - “I am from above...I am not of this world...and unless you believe that I am ((from above and not from this world)) you will die in your sins). Accepting Jesus' claims then of being from heaven is prerequisite tosalvation. One cannot deny Jesus' rightful place with everything this implies and be saved. Forgiveness of sin cannot be separated from the divinity of Jesus. If one does not believe he is the God of heaven there is no forgiveness of sin. This one fact gives credence to whatever comes out of his mouth. Whatever he says is the WORD OF GOD!

 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
I am afraid your musical example cannot override or seek to explain away the words of Christ. So far you have offered nothing to the discussion. I can easily prove from scripture Christ is not the one true God according to Christ himself, you cannot prove he is

Matthew 26--Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death; 60But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses, 61And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days. 62And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee? 63But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. 64Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.65Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy. 66What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.



Matthew 16---When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, SimonBarjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Fatherwhich is in heaven.

John 8---Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 10-- I and the Father are One.

John 14-- He who has seen me has seen the Father.

Just to name a few. If Jesus didnt claim to be God why did the priest rip his robe? Why did he say it was blasphemy,what Jesus had said?
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
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You have not answered the simple question at all. If Christ is the one true God,
who is the God of the one true omnipotent God?
God the Son eternally proceeds from God the Father (Jn 8:42, 16:27, 28, 17:8).

God the Son is subject to God the Father.

God the Holy Spirit proceeds from both God the Father (Jn 15:26) and God the Son (Gal 4:6; Ro 8:9).

God the Holy Spirit is subject to God the Father and God the Son.

The new covenant word of God presents three divine persons in one God.

God the Father willed the plan.
God the Son carried out the plan.
God the Holy Spirit applies the benefits of the plan.
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
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So is Jesus one of those gods,

One of what gods?

There is only one God in three divine persons, God the Father, God the Son and
God the Holy Spirit.

". . .and the Word was God. . .The Word became flesh. . ." (Jn 1:1, 13).
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
You have not answered the simple question at all. If Christ is the one true God, who is the God of the one true omnipotent God?
You're truly exasperating, you know that? How many times do you have to be told God is Father, Son, Holy Spirit, yet One? As I told you before, you can neither explain nor deny this truth with the mind of a mere man. Digest this:

Matthew 28, NASB
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always *, even to the end of the age."

Got it? OK ... explain to me how He says "Father, Son, Holy Spirit" but says there is only one name.

Get a clue, man.
 
Last edited:
Feb 5, 2015
1,852
13
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You're truly exasperating, you know that? How many times do you have to be told God is Father, Son, Holy Spirit, yet One? As I told you before, you can neither explain nor deny this truth with the mind of a mere man. Digest this:

Matthew 28, NASB
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always *, even to the end of the age."

Got it? OK ... explain to me how He says "Father, Son, Holy Spirit" but says there is only one name.

Get a clue, man.
You refuse to accept the words of Christ himself in relation to thi subject. I don't find that exasperating, but rather sad
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Jesus stated only the father is the one true God. You have trouble accepting christs words, so what are you left to do?

Yet jesus called himself God. and never denied not being God (in fact it was the very reason they crucified him)

So we have a major problem.
.

if the Father is the only God. Our redeemer is a liar and we are still dead in our sin.
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
Please show me
where it is rooted in scripture a person must believe Christ is God himself to receive eternal life. The plain text please
Jn 8:24 - "You will die in your sin if you do not believe that I AM he (Is 48:12)." (Jn 13:19)
 
Feb 5, 2015
1,852
13
0
Jn 8:24 - "You will die in your sin if you do not believe that I AM." (Jn 13:19)

"I am he"
(who I say I am, here).
This is a major fallacy in thinking. If Jesus is God himself because he said I Am the we can term God himself an angel, for the angel spoke the words I AM from the burning bush. I do not believe God is an angel
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
This is a major fallacy in thinking. If Jesus is God himself because he said I Am the we can term God himself an angel, for the angel spoke the words I AM from the burning bush. I do not believe God is an angel
Actually the words I AM are in error.

The literal interpretation is I always existed. It means he had no begining.

What angel can claim this?
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
Jesus stated only the father is the one true God. You have no scripture at all that can contradict that.

". . .and the Word was God. . .The Word became flesh. . ."
(Jn 1:1, 13) in Jesus of Nazareth, God the Son, the second of the three divine persons in the one true God.

What part of Jn 1:1, 13 do you not understand?
 
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Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
This is a major fallacy in thinking. If Jesus is God himself because he said I Am the we can term God himself an angel, for the angel spoke the words I AM from the burning bush. I do not believe God is an angel

The Angel of the Lord was a pre-incarnate Jesus. One of the Biblical definitions of angel is simply "messenger."
 
Feb 5, 2015
1,852
13
0
Jn 8:24 - "You will die in your sin if you do not believe that I AM he (Is 48:12)." (Jn 13:19)
Jesus made plain who a person must believe him to be to inherit eternal life, the son of God. There is not one verse of scripture in the entire bible that contradicts this requirement by adding to it
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
614
113
70
Alabama
Jesus stated only the father is the one true God. You have trouble accepting christs words, so what are you left to do?
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” These are Christ own words too about himself. Do you not believe them?
 
Feb 5, 2015
1,852
13
0

". . .and the Word was God. . .The Word became flesh. . ."
(Jn 1:1, 13) in Jesus of Nazareth, God the Son, the second of the three divine persons in the one true God.

What part of Jn 1:1, 13 do you not understand?
What do you fail to understand of Jesus words? The father is the one true God and greater than the son john 14:28 & john 17:3
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
Elin said:
Jn 8:24 - "You will die in your sin if you do not believe that I AM." (Jn 13:19)

"I am he"
(who I say I am, here).
And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am (He), you will die in your sins.”
This is a contrast of origins. “You are from below” represents a particular epistemology – a state of mind, a way of reasoning, a process of determining what is true. Their epistemology was from below and reflected the mind of the world. Jesus' epistemology was from heaven and reflected the mind of God. The 'he' is not in the Greek and the insertion of the pronoun in the English translations is, I think, both unwarranted and unfortunate. The insertion of the pronoun leads to uncalled for speculation about Jesus use of ἐγώ εἰμι. Jesus is not using ἐγώ εἰμι here as declaration of divine title as he does in verse 58. Here, ἐγώ εἰμι simply modifies his claims of the two previous clause - “I am from above...I am not of this world...and unless you believe that I am (from above and not from this world)) you will die in your sins). Accepting Jesus' claims then of being from heaven is prerequisite to salvation. One cannot deny Jesus' rightful place with everything this implies and be saved. Forgiveness of sin cannot be separated from the divinity of Jesus. If one does not believe he is the God of heaven there is no forgiveness of sin. This one fact gives credence to whatever comes out of his mouth. Whatever he says is the WORD OF GOD!
Jesus said he came down from heaven (Jn 3:13, 6:38, 42, 62).
 
Last edited:
Feb 5, 2015
1,852
13
0
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” These are Christ own words too about himself. Do you not believe them?
You need to address the words of Christ before darting elsewhere. You refuse to accept the direct words of Christ, Paul and john to hold to your man made belief derived of the scholar and theologian