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Tankman131
Guest
I do not directly see an issue with someone living in luxury, but it is a risk because money can easily become an idol. A preacher should be beyond reproach and having multiple houses and a private jet opens them up to reproach for idolizing the dollar and this world.
Biblically there is also an example not of uber rich teachers but of teachers living with what they need. That isnt to say all preachers need to become tent makers, but as said earlier money can easily become an idol as seen with the prosperity gospel/wof folks like osteen, meyers, and dollar.
Actually, ALL believers have this "annointing." When we are saved, God gives us the Holy Spirit, who gives us his annointing. You throw the word "annointing" around in half your posts to defend these false teachers, and have absolutely no understanding of what the word means.
"Scripture teaches that if you are a Christian, you’re anointed. If you’ve been regenerated by God’s Holy Spirit you are anointed. It’s not a feeling, or a buzz, or an experience. It’s a reality. 1 John 2:20
. This is not for a select few. It’s not that some Christians have a super-special anointing that the common Christians don’t have. That is a division of Christians into classes: the haves and the have-nots. If you’re in Christ, you are anointed. There’s no division of classes within Christianity. We are one in Christ. The ground is level at the foot of the cross. This is a false understanding used to manipulate people’s emotions and behavior. It’s also used to elevate the false teacher you’re looking at—to elevate him to a status above everyone else. He has a different source of authority, a unique access to God. That is their way of insulating themselves against biblical criticism. “If you can’t find this in the Bible, don’t worry about it because I have the anointing.”JM: The anointing is essentially the promise of illumination of the Holy Spirit to understand the Word. And we all have that. We have not only the Word, but also the Teacher and the Author of the Word. We have the mind of Christ (1 Cor 2:16
). Why? Because the Spirit teaches us the deep things of God. That’s the anointing. But they throw that word around in kind of an Old Testament sense—like a prophet, priest, or king was anointed in some official ceremony—as if they’ve been pulled up above the hoi polloi. And so they are beyond criticism. I think the other thing to say is: that is pagan. That activity has nothing to do with Christianity. It is a blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, a dishonor to the Word of God, a mockery of Christ. I don’t know how God can exercise as much patience as He does. If you ever question the patience and the forbearance of God, look at how much that stuff goes on. Why is He so patient? He has people in that movement who have yet to be redeemed." http://thecripplegate.com/strange-fire-panel-qa-1-macarthur-lawson-pennington-peters/
"20 But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all have knowledge." 1 John 2:20
"20 καὶ ὑμεῖς χρῖσμα ἔχετε ἀπὸ τοῦ ἁγίου καὶ οἴδατε πάντες·" 1 John 2:20 Greek.
The word χρῖσμα or chrisma means "annointing." The word does not express the act of annointing, like in the Old Testament, but rather that which it is performed, and marks the connection of Christians with their Head - and refers the Holy Spirit.
I think that this blind acceptance of some of these false teachers, based on THEIR claiming they have some special "annointing" is the lie that needs to be broken for some to see clearly the truth of not only the truth of their extravagant lifestyles, but just how truly wrong Biblically the whole Word Faith movement is. Believers are ALL annointed, and we are all given gifts! Not just some wolves who self proclaim themselves to be "holier" and "closer" to God than the rest of us.
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JesusIsAll
Guest
Thank you for that good answer. Yes, the ethic, or lack of Christian ethic thereof, very badly reflecting on the faith, is glaring, but there's more...
Speaking of which. I used to do genealogy research and found some old church records where a man was brought before the church for beating his wife and he repented and they had to bring him before the church a second time and he told them to go to HE double hockey sticks so they kicked him out of the church.
A Methodist church kicked Ellen G. White and her whole family out becasue of her heretical stuff.
People don't have the gonads anymore, they just want to go with the flow and be as politcally correct as they can.
There is more and more anointing we can make ourselves available of, and that begins with the baptism of the Holy Spirit---separate from salvation and also from water baptism. It very obvious when people do not speak out of the anointing.
Creflo Dollar has it. Joyce Meyer has it, and so does Joseph Prince. Their anointing and gifting is in the area of teaching.
Like I said before from an article on Joyce Meyers she said she is "living her reward". Like I said, I thought we got our rewards at the Judgement Seat of Christ, Who Knew!
I have no objection to a genuine theological debate.But I feel that attacking someone for 9 pages is more than sufficient. Especially as I've never heard of him LOL
We're attacking their doctrine.
And don't ever apologize to anyone formally. Just let it slide if they don't say anything.
So if they are so extra special "annointed" why do they misuse the Bible? Why do they misuse their funds and lie to the government about their net worth, and cover it under the guise of being a church? Why do they constantly beg for money to keep their ministries going, including needing a $65 million jet, money which could be used to help the poor, the needy, or fund real missionaries, who go into foreign lands to live, give their lives to the people and stay there to teach believers to follow Christ?
You would think this extra special "annointing" which is found NOWHERE in the Bible would at least make them ethical, and maybe have them study their Bible and learn the gospel of salvation from sins, not salvation to be blessed in this lifetime!
Just show me the verses that say anyone is given "extra" annointing. Or for that matter, that we receive the Holy Spirit sometime after we are saved. That is what the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is. A non-scriptural attempt to appease people who are not willing to walk the narrow way and follow Jesus Christ, but instead an experiential lie to keep people in bondage to the WoF liars and cheats. Feel good and God will bless you.
Not carry your cross to your death, if need be!
"Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me." Matt 16:24
By the way, Nancy, I have yet to see you post a single Bible verse in any of your posts, which tells me you are going mostly by the false teachings of these WoF teachers, and not what you have learned in the Bible.
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JesusIsAll
Guest
Really excellent, Angela, a good read! This is something it's like pulling teeth to get out of these "God's special people," of whatever stripe, how they get something of the Holy Spirit orderly churches, throughout Christendom, some with highly gifted, Spirit-filled Bible teachers, do not get? Why aren't we all babbling and rolling in the aisles? The rest of Christendom spiritually defective? I suppose all the pastors out there, not living in conspicuous consumption, are also low on the Holy Spirit totem pole, then?
Not asking for rocket science, just to make common sense of it all, please, some proof how you're special? And why? Got a God who's a respecter of persons, do you? He likes your roofing material, so parks more Holy Spirit under your roof? More Bentleys in your garage? Or, perish the thought, that mansion or Bentley was purchased by soliciting money to your sanctified P.O. Box more like it, "sowing that seed" or, like an informercial, hawking your books and DVDs, in truth, taking a lot of money from even poor people you've made lying promises of blessings to? And to pay for your swimming pools?
PS. I do believe in the gifts. I have the gift of teaching, and preaching. But I don't use it to get more money for myself, and in fact, I have never accepted a penny for work as a chaplain, and pastor.
"3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.4 For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function, 5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; 7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching; 8 the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness." Romans 12:3-7
"3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.4 For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function, 5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; 7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching; 8 the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness." Romans 12:3-7
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JesusIsAll
Guest
And don't ever apologize to anyone formally. Just let it slide if they don't say anything.
I done heared that! Mercy, the thread from hell!
Don't get your nickers in a twist!
I'm gonna answer you now, to a very great degree no, I always hope they are supporting their church or some other philanthropic endeavor. On the other hand I have to wonder why they have to live so high, and, that could be becasue there are people that know their monetary worth. It looks kinda odd to have a banged up Honda driving around in a rich neighborhood, kinda suspicious, or may they could drive a late model Rolls to commit their caper.While this is not an statement of support for any of the ministers listed in the wiki article. In fairness and full disclosure lets see who "lied" to the government as you stated:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite..._tax-exempt_status_of_religious_organizations
Interestingly enough Joyce Meyer and Kenneth Copeland were the only 2 that complied with the government fully and the government concluded they had done no wrong in their accounting.
Joyce and Dave Meyer have more character in their pinky fingers than some of you all will ever have in your whole body. I would read the link on Joyce and also what the IRS had to say about her and her own secular accounting firm.
This will be viewed as another "lame" reply. If the US Senate found no fault with Joyce, then who are you blowhards listening to?
Sirkism:
Have you ever gone gopher hunting? I used to run backwards faster than I can run forwards. Ohh look...a monkey.
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JesusIsAll
Guest
Don't get your nickers in a twist!
Yes, one must be brimming with curiosity why they must live so high, for sure. Now, from everything you see here, I thought twisted knickers (with a 'k', Shakespeare) were all the rage!
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JesusIsAll
Guest
If you knew the word, you'd know that they do not misuse it. You have no clue about your charges against them. The send more relief and money and much other types of help to extremely needy areas of the world than you obviously know about.
Until your life bears the same level of fruit that theirs does, then you need to button it. You will be judged harshly by God for your unkind criticisms of people who have been led to where they are by their obedience to God.
Your denial of God's word is as obvious as a flashing neon sign.
God tells us in His word to keep being filled with the Holy Spirit!
Ephesians 5:!8
Stop getting drunk with wine, which leads to wild living, but keep on being filled with the Spirit.
It's not a one-time for all time thing. You are being non-scriptural, here, denying God's word and defying His truth about His anointing, and His gifting and His equipping and His promoting of people of HIS CHOOSING. Who do you think you are? Do you have a strong ministry where people are saved and discipled and trained in righteousness?
I have the entire word of God behind me, thanks.